btea refused and jsa cancelled

kristian12

I apologise now as this could be long winded.

My son has been on jsa for 2 years after personal issues meant he was unable to complete/pass his level 5 course. Now after getting his life back together he has been accepted onto a course he wants to pursue as a career.

He is 20 but because he was out of education 2 yrs he should have qualified for btea. He called today to be told he was refused as he'd already done a level 5 but the person on the phone said they could see he hadn't passed it so therefore he should be eligible but there is no appeal process. Is this right no appeal?

He then went to collect his jsa and it had been cancelled but the office was already shut so no idea why. Surely they wouldn't cancel it before anything else awarded and with no notice?

Any suggestions on how he can proceed from here would be appreciated.

eastbono

There isnt an appeals process for BTEA but he can ask for it to be reviewed once he gets the formal disallowance letter. He needs to call into his office to see why his money wasnt there today. The post office wouldnt have been able to tell him that it was cancelled/closed.

kristian12

eastbono wrote: »

There isnt an appeals process for BTEA but he can ask for it to be reviewed once he gets the formal disallowance letter. He needs to call into his office to see why his money wasnt there today. The post office wouldnt have been able to tell him that it was cancelled/closed.

Thank you. Hopefully the letter will be here soon as he is heartbroken. Just asked him if the post office actually said cancelled, he said no he just assumes it is because they said it wasn't there and wouldn't be tomorrow either asking if he missed signing on which he hadn't. Think he's panicking a bit that his life will turn upside down again.

kristian12

Update. His jsa has been suspended and he was told there'd be no more payments until they got a letter from college saying he'd dropped out. His btea was rejected due to him previously starting although not passing the same level in a different course yrs ago.

So as he can't live on fresh air his only option appears to go back onto the welfare :-/

Sephiroth_dude

Does the college have a vtos scheme? Maybe he could get onto that instead if they do.

kristian12

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Does the college have a vtos scheme? Maybe he could get onto that instead if they do.

Thanks, Unsure what vtos is but anything is worth it if it means he can continue so will check it out.

You can't drop out of a course and try a quick return on both the grant and BTEA.

Theres some sort of second chance scheme that kicks in after 5 yrs in relation to the grant.

BTEA aside, if he had fees to pay this year the grant won't pay them if he got it before.
Heck they won't even pay for repeats, I had a mishap before which required repeating the year and id to get the e500 from student support.

You need to be careful with BTEA and grants, can't be leaving and trying to start elsewhere... You only get one crack of it in the short term.

kristian12

gilberto_eire wrote: »

You can't drop out of a course and try a quick return on both the grant and BTEA.

Theres some sort of second chance scheme that kicks in after 5 yrs in relation to the grant.

BTEA aside, if he had fees to pay this year the grant won't pay them if he got it before.
Heck they won't even pay for repeats, I had a mishap before which required repeating the year and id to get the e500 from student support.

You need to be careful with BTEA and grants, can't be leaving and trying to start elsewhere... You only get one crack of it in the short term.

Thanks. He did a level 5 fetac 3 years ago and received grant payment while he attended but due to personal issues didn't complete/pass the course. He has spent the last 2 yrs on jsa but now it appears he's going to end up in limbo. He's been offered a job on completion of the course but that's not taken into consideration.

Any advice gratefully received.

Balagan

kristian12 wrote: »

Thanks, Unsure what vtos is but anything is worth it if it means he can continue so will check it out.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/returning_to_education/vocational_training_opportunities_scheme.html

VTOS courses have started already but some locations may be low on numbers and will consider late applications.

scorcolo

That doesn't sound right at all - if he didn't finish the course he was on then he should be eligible for the BTEA. If I was your son I would ring the BTEA office in Sligo - they're really helpful and should be able to sort it out for him

kristian12

scorcolo wrote: »

That doesn't sound right at all - if he didn't finish the course he was on then he should be eligible for the BTEA. If I was your son I would ring the BTEA office in Sligo - they're really helpful and should be able to sort it out for him

Thanks I phoned them yesterday and they said as it was dealt with locally he has to continue locally. I also rang citizens advice and they said he has to wait for his refusal letter and ask for a review but it could take a while.

Can't believe the welfare office told him he needs to drop out.

djerk

I might be wrong but it seems the issue here might be that SW may have contacted his previous college and found him to be still registered on that course, which could explain a lot, including the cancellation of his current welfare payment and the refusal of his BTEA application.

Perhaps he should approach the college and ask for a registered letter stating when he left the course and under what circumstances and present this to the welfare office.

myshirt

Kristian12, in response to your query.

BTEA is not a direct statutory scheme - i.e it doesn't find it's basis in any 'law'.

You have went as far as you can in terms of appeals. The only thing I would suggest is meeting with them, if they are open to it. Bring this person from citizens information with you. Bring the job offer. Talk it through.

The key thing here is your son is a young man, and to not have done a tap of work by 22 is not going to help him, at all at all. He is facing a completely different world to you and I. I just don't know do people genuinely realise the severity here.... it's not like the late 80's.

What I would say to you is that aside from BTEA, there are many other avenues of assistance to get him out there earning a crust. Pursue them with absolutely every ounce of strength. There is work out there. You will get him into something. And Intreo will help.

kristian12

djerk wrote: »

I might be wrong but it seems the issue here might be that SW may have contacted his previous college and found him to be still registered on that course, which could explain a lot, including the cancellation of his current welfare payment and the refusal of his BTEA application.

Perhaps he should approach tèe college and ask for a registered letter stating when he left the course and under what circumstances and present this to the welfare office.

Thanks no it was a 1 year course. We were told his jsa was stopped as he re registered this year and therefore wouldn't be available to work which is fair enough.

He has supplied sw with a letter from the college confirming he doesn't have the level 5 but just a component cert.

WittyName1

My experience with BTEA is you can only get it once at each level, so only once at level 5. Could he find a different course at a higher fetac level perhaps? Or could he get a part time job to fund the original course? A lot of places are hiring now for Christmas staff.

kristian12

myshirt wrote: »

Kristian12, in response to your query.

BTEA is not a direct statutory scheme - i.e it doesn't find it's basis in any 'law'.

You have went as far as you can in terms of appeals. The only thing I would suggest is meeting with them, if they are open to it. Bring this person from citizens information with you. Bring the job offer. Talk it through.

The key thing here is your son is a young man, and to not have done a tap of work by 22 is not going to help him, at all at all. He is facing a completely different world to you and I. I just don't know do people genuinely realise the severity here.... it's not like the late 80's.

What I would say to you is that aside from BTEA, there are many other avenues of assistance to get him out there earning a crust. Pursue them with absolutely every ounce of strength. There is work out there. You will get him into something. And Intreo will help.

Thanks. He did try and get work but he has a disability that puts him at a disadvantage. We will keep trying to find a way forward.

kristian12

WittyName1 wrote: »

My experience with BTEA is you can only get it once at each level, so only once at level 5. Could he find a different couprse at a higher fetac level perhaps? Or could he get a part time job to fund the original course? A lot of places are hiring now for Christmas staff.

He has never received btea and doesn't have a full level 5 qualification. But even if he did the rules changed june 2014 to allow a person to do another course at the same level and still get btea.

He is looking for part time work but as I said in the post above its difficult.

WittyName1

kristian12 wrote: »

He has never received btea and doesn't have a full level 5 qualification. But even if he did the rules changed june 2014 to allow a person to do another course at the same level and still get btea.

He is looking for part time work but as I said in the post above its difficult.

Sorry Kristian, I misread your original post. I thought he had already started a level 5 course in the past AND was getting BTEA for it and was now looking to get BTEA again. Apologies.

Would looking for a level 6 course or higher be a solution? Would they allow BTEA for that? It could be an option.

kristian12

WittyName1 wrote: »

Sorry Kristian, I misread your original post. I thought he had already started a level 5 course in the past AND was getting BTEA for it and was now looking to get BTEA again. Apologies.

Would looking for a level 6 course or higher be a solution? Would they allow BTEA for that? It could be an option.

We have gone from pillar to post so I'm probably not very clear when I post sometimes.
Unfortunately not because the area he has been offered work in requires this course.

realistic anorak

Have you contacted Joan Burton directly about this ? If not, you should.

kristian12

realistic anorak wrote: »

Have you contacted Joan Burton directly about this ? If not, you should.

No we haven't, I would never have thought she'd have got involved in an individuals case. Thank you we will do that tomorrow :-)

ShaShaBear

In my case, BTEA was only offered if you were going further in your education, that is the course you are applying for must result in a higher qualification than the one you already have. I have a level 7 degree - if I went back to do another one, I would be refused BTEA, even if I didn't claim it while I did the degree. However, if I did a level 8, I would be approved as it is a higher level of education.

Perhaps the issue here is that SW think your son already received the level 5 as he has a component certificate.

MouseTail

kristian12 wrote: »

We have gone from pillar to post so I'm probably not very clear when I post sometimes.
Unfortunately not because the area he has been offered work in requires this course.

If they require the level 5, eg childcare or care work, having the level 6 negates this. Could he do a FAS course?

kristian12

New twist to this. He was informed today he will be getting jsa of €160 a week and it would be backdated. Now he was only getting €100 pw before starting college and his payment stopped. Does this mean he can't go to college as he won't be looking for work or is this while they look at his btea claim again?

eastbono

This sounds like he has been approved for BTEA as the payment is increased to €160 pw while on BTEA. It will revert back to €100 during the summer.

"Budget 2014

From 1 January 2014 all new BTEA participants aged under 26 who were getting a reduced age-related Jobseeker’s Allowance payment, will get a maximum BTEA rate of €160 per week (any means participants have will be deducted from this rate).

kristian12

eastbono wrote: »

This sounds like he has been approved for BTEA as the payment is increased to €160 pw while on BTEA. It will revert back to €100 during the summer.

"Budget 2014

From 1 January 2014 all new BTEA participants aged under 26 who were getting a reduced age-related Jobseeker’s Allowance payment, will get a maximum BTEA rate of €160 per week (any means participants have will be deducted from this rate).

Thank you. We thought so to, but he was definitely told it was jobseekers allowance. He definitely doesn't qualify for €160 jsa because of his age so maybe this is while they reassess his btea.

eastbono

He would not have been put up to €160 rate on reinstatement of his jsa unless his BTEA was approved. He is still on a jsa payment but with a BTEA category either TLO (third level option) or SLO (second level option) in this case as its a Fetac course it will be SLO.

kristian12

eastbono wrote: »

He would not have been put up to €160 rate on reinstatement of his jsa unless his BTEA was approved. He is still on a jsa payment but with a BTEA category either TLO (third level option) or SLO (second level option) in this case as its a Fetac course it will be SLO.

Ahh thank you so much. We hadn't realised it still classed as jsa. He didn't want to get into trouble by not being available for work.

eastbono

No bother. His payment should also be going into his bank account now rather than the post office...assuming he gave his bank details...it should revert to post office again in May/June.

kristian12

eastbono wrote: »

No bother. His payment should also be going into his bank account now rather than the post office...assuming he gave his bank details...it should revert to post office again in May/June.

He did give bank details but he was told it would be in the post office and collectable every week and after everything he doesn't want to ask them to change things and mess it up :-).