Driving a car that could stall at any minute

gebbel · 07-09-2014 3:34pm #1

I have a 2005 Audi A4 TDi with 183K miles done. It has the BLB engine, the one with the well documented issues about the oil pump chain. If it fails, and I'm told it's only a matter of time, then it's a very expensive fix. Some owners are taking action and changing the mechanism to gear driven, but this is also well over a grand I believe. The car is in very good shape otherwise and I'd happily drive it on for another year. The car is worth very little anyway, and bearing in mind the time bomb inside I probably wouldn't get it sold at all. People are telling me I'd be mad to pump big money into the car, but surely it's the only logical option available?

Thanks.

ironclaw · 07-09-2014 4:16pm

The way I always see these things, is you either spend the money now and fix what is extremely likely to be an issue, fix it when it becomes an issue (Probably at the most inopportune of times e.g. Christmas week etc) or sell it now and take a loss. Either way, your going to lose money as you can't sell it to a knowledgable buyer without taking a hit and you'll most likely have to make the investment yourself at some stage. So you stand to gain nothing by waiting really. Its down to choosing where you want to 'lose' your money.

JohnBoy26 · 07-09-2014 4:22pm

I wouldn't be waiting for the oil pump to go because if it goes it will wreck the engine.

George Dalton · 07-09-2014 4:43pm

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

I wouldn't be waiting for the oil pump to go because if it goes it will wreck the engine.

Only if you ignore the oil pressure warning and keep driving.

As ironclaw says it's pretty much a zero sum game. The only difference is whether you spend the money in advance or lose it after the fact.

JohnBoy26 · 07-09-2014 4:59pm

George Dalton wrote: »

Only if you ignore the oil pressure warning and keep driving.

As ironclaw says it's pretty much a zero sum game. The only difference is whether you spend the money in advance or lose it after the fact.

Wouldn't there be still some damage done though at that stage?

George Dalton · 07-09-2014 5:42pm

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Wouldn't there be still some damage done though at that stage?

The turbo is usually damaged (only ever seen 3 escape turbo damage when the oil pump drive failed) but the engines themselves are generally fine once people pull over and stop when the warning appears.

Truckermal · 07-09-2014 5:51pm

I seen the thread title on the main page and knew exactly the thread content.

djimi · 07-09-2014 6:36pm

I suppose the way to look at it is would you be keeping this car if this was not an issue? Would you replace it for the money that you would spend to fix the issue? How likely would you be to see some of the money back at least when you go to sell it with this issue rectified?

If the car is in otherwise good nick, you are happy to hang onto it (ie you wouldnt be otherwise looking to change either way) and would otherwise have to spend money to replace it one way or another then a grand might not be a bad investment to make.

George Dalton · 07-09-2014 6:39pm

It's more than €1000 to sort it anyway.

It's €1475 minimum to convert from chain to gear drive and also address the issue with the oil pump hex drive.

gebbel · 07-09-2014 7:09pm

George can an inspection give a clue about whether failure is imminent?

George Dalton · 07-09-2014 7:41pm

By the time you have enough stripping done to establish that you are already into a pretty major labour bill so it's not really practical.

At 183k you are pushing the limits unless a previous repair has been carried out. The highest mileage we ever saw on one before it failed was 190k.

mickdw · 07-09-2014 8:32pm

George Dalton wrote: »

By the time you have enough stripping done to establish that you are already into a pretty major labour bill so it's not really practical.

At 183k you are pushing the limits unless a previous repair has been carried out. The highest mileage we ever saw on one before it failed was 190k.

Is it easy to establish whether the work had been done already?
Surely if you are at the limit of what George has seen mileage wise, there is a strong possibility that work had been done.

gebbel · 07-09-2014 8:39pm

No I've owned the car since 2007. The issue wasn't known publicly then, though I suspect Audi may have.

mickdw · 07-09-2014 8:43pm

I'd either spend the cash and keep the car for another couple of years to get value from it or get rid now as is.

goz83 · 07-09-2014 11:50pm

Most people wouldn't be aware of this issue. I wasn't until now. Though I usually do research before buying, I know a lot of people wouldn't. In saying that, it would be a pretty ****ty thing to do if you knowingly sold the car with the belief that it was likely to die in a few hundred miles. If you like the car, get the issue sorted and keep it. If you want rid, I would say be honest with any buyers, but don't advertise the problem in the ad. Price it with this issue in mind. Waiting is a losing game. Act asap.

wendell borton · 08-09-2014 12:01am

How do manufacturers keep getting away with this. The problem seems to be caused by a serious design flaw.

dr.fuzzenstein · 08-09-2014 8:09am

George Dalton wrote: »

It's more than €1000 to sort it anyway.

It's €1475 minimum to convert from chain to gear drive and also address the issue with the oil pump hex drive.

Hi George, just to ask, where and how would it be €1475? Would that be main dealer or would that be rock-bottom, parts sourced from ebay and fitted at mate's rates in backyard garage?
I have always found that there can be a massive difference and I mean massive.
When I had a new clutch and DMF fitted by a backyard mechanic, the total cost was less than what Ford wanted for the parts alone. And the parts where Sachs, so no cheap crap.

OP, a friend of mine did a DIY conversion on his Audi, he (AFAIK) bypassed the balancing shafts altogether and drove the oil pump direct (don't ask me how, I'll find out), he did it for hundreds, rather than thousands.

George Dalton · 08-09-2014 8:11am

I never quote cash, mates rates or other black market prices.

The €1475 is inclusive of VAT and is for the Powermax Engineering conversion setup to include the upgraded oil pump drive fitted by a reputable garage.

dr.fuzzenstein · 08-09-2014 8:31am

George Dalton wrote: »

I never quote cash, mates rates or other black market prices.

The €1475 is inclusive of VAT and is for the Powermax Engineering conversion setup to include the upgraded oil pump drive fitted by a reputable garage.

That's good to know, this is a useful yard stick when comparing prices.
Depends now on OP's car, mileage and condition and so forth.
Putting money into these can be a loser, because they are hard to sell due to exactly this issue, people don't trust them even when they're fixed. Probably best to fix it and drive it till it falls apart, because not fixing it will be a bigger loser on the end.

EunanMac · 08-09-2014 8:35am

wendell borton wrote: »

How do manufacturers keep getting away with this. The problem seems to be caused by a serious design flaw.

Putting an Audi/VW/BMW logo on the front gets you away with anything, and has done so for years.

EunanMac · 08-09-2014 8:38am

George Dalton wrote: »

It's more than €1000 to sort it anyway.

It's €1475 minimum to convert from chain to gear drive and also address the issue with the oil pump hex drive.

You'd nearly get an engine change for that, and you'd be able to hang onto the car for a good few more years then

EunanMac · 08-09-2014 8:40am

goz83 wrote: »

Most people wouldn't be aware of this issue. I wasn't until now. Though I usually do research before buying, I know a lot of people wouldn't. In saying that, it would be a pretty ****ty thing to do if you knowingly sold the car with the belief that it was likely to die in a few hundred miles. If you like the car, get the issue sorted and keep it. If you want rid, I would say be honest with any buyers, but don't advertise the problem in the ad. Price it with this issue in mind. Waiting is a losing game. Act asap.

I agree with this, you can sell it cheap, and warn the buyer it could happen, or sell it off at auction where it's buyer beware +10

George Dalton · 08-09-2014 8:52am

EunanMac wrote: »

You'd nearly get an engine change for that, and you'd be able to hang onto the car for a good few more years then

I don't follow your reasoning. What would be the point of replacing the engine when the replacement engine would have the same issue?

Gazzmonkey · 08-09-2014 8:57am

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

That's good to know, this is a useful yard stick when comparing prices.
Depends now on OP's car, mileage and condition and so forth.
Putting money into these can be a loser, because they are hard to sell due to exactly this issue, people don't trust them even when they're fixed. Probably best to fix it and drive it till it falls apart, because not fixing it will be a bigger loser on the end.

I'm pretty confident the majority of people showing an interest in an A4 wouldn't know to steer clear of BLB or BXE engines.

Selling it shouldn't be a problem and going by what I see on donedeal, you'll still get a few grand for them.

but would you sell it knowing it could be a ticking time bomb???

George Dalton · 08-09-2014 8:58am

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

That's good to know, this is a useful yard stick when comparing prices.

I also should have said that €1475 wouldn't even cover the parts if you were to go to Audi.

djimi · 08-09-2014 9:22am

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

but would you sell it knowing it could be a ticking time bomb???

Surely its up to the buyer to do their research and know what they are buying?

EunanMac · 08-09-2014 9:27am

George Dalton wrote: »

I don't follow your reasoning. What would be the point of replacing the engine when the replacement engine would have the same issue?

You might be able get one with much lower miles, or one without the issue may fit, it depends how much he wants to keep the car.

Gazzmonkey · 08-09-2014 9:29am

djimi wrote: »

Surely its up to the buyer to do their research and know what they are buying?

I totally agree, but I don't think many buyers do this.

djimi · 08-09-2014 9:38am

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

I totally agree, but I don't think many buyers do this.

Thats their problem really; its up to the buyer to know what they are buying. Im not suggesting that the OP be dishonest and lie, but I would price the car according to what they sell for, and I would not be making a big song and dance about the issue, nor would I be bringing it up unless it is asked about. Right now there is no issue; the car is driving well and as far as the OP is concerned may well continue to do so for a while yet.

gebbel · 08-09-2014 10:02am

Of course I would disclose the issue to any potential buyer if I was selling. It would take a rotten individual not to.

I have also decided that I am not going to fork out €1500 for this fix. I'm going to take a risk and if it fails...I'll deal with that. I'm going to take the car to 200K miles and let it go.

I can't believe there isn't a B7 TDi Audi that hasn't made it to this mileage without the fail. And as this car has been brilliant for me since day 1, maybe I'm just lucky.

George Dalton · 08-09-2014 10:25am

EunanMac wrote: »

You might be able get one with much lower miles, or one without the issue may fit, it depends how much he wants to keep the car.

But what is the advantage of that?

You might be able to find one that might not have the issue, or one might fit that doesn't have the issue. That's a lot of uncertainty.

Or you can spend the same amount of money (more than likely less in reality) and know for 100% definite that the issue was sorted.

I know which option I would be going for.

George Dalton · 08-09-2014 10:27am

gebbel wrote: »

I have also decided that I am not going to fork out €1500 for this fix. I'm going to take a risk and if it fails...I'll deal with that. I'm going to take the car to 200K miles and let it go.

I can't believe there isn't a B7 TDi Audi that hasn't made it to this mileage without the fail. And as this car has been brilliant for me since day 1, maybe I'm just lucky.

Very often the chain will start to make an awful racket before it fails so you may get a bit of warning.

dr.fuzzenstein · 08-09-2014 11:40am

George Dalton wrote: »

Very often the chain will start to make an awful racket before it fails so you may get a bit of warning.

Exactly. Since the problem is related to a chain guard that breaks, there will be quite a distinct racket coming from the engine, so its not without warning.

EunanMac · 08-09-2014 1:10pm

gebbel wrote: »

Of course I would disclose the issue to any potential buyer if I was selling. It would take a rotten individual not to.

I have also decided that I am not going to fork out €1500 for this fix. I'm going to take a risk and if it fails...I'll deal with that. I'm going to take the car to 200K miles and let it go.

I can't believe there isn't a B7 TDi Audi that hasn't made it to this mileage without the fail. And as this car has been brilliant for me since day 1, maybe I'm just lucky.

If you like the car that's not a bad way to go, and the engine goes, you might be be able to source a replacement engine with half the miles or less fitted for near the same money as doing a big repair job now. Something else could go then anyway.

Driving a car that could stall at any minute

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