Fair notice to tenants to vacate?

Bass Cadet

I've moved back to Ireland. I'd like to move back into my own home asap. I have three tenants with whom I have no written contract or lease.

What is fair notice to vacate? Thirty days?
Thanks for any advice

NinjaTruncs

Bass Cadet wrote: »

I've moved back to Ireland. I'd like to move back into my own home asap. I have three tenants with whom I have no written contract or lease.

What is fair notice to vacate? Thirty days?
Thanks for any advice

How long have they been there? There are guidelines regarding the amount of notice to give depending on the time the Tennant's have been there. On my phone so can't link. A search should find it for you

Bass Cadet

One guy has been there four years... one three and the other two...I'm in no hurry but I'd like to give them notice so I can get in there and clean it up...but want to give them enough time. Although two of the three have been exceptionally bad tenants ie always late with rent

Maybe I'll just email them all formally and tell them I'll go in and talk to them about it...time they would need etc. Although nothing is in writing I think sitting down and talking is better

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

How long have they been there? There are guidelines regarding the amount of notice to give depending on the time the Tennant's have been there. On my phone so can't link. A search should find it for you

Michael8000

All the details you need are in the link below

http://www.threshold.ie/advice/ending-a-tenancy/how-your-landlord-may-end-your-tenancy/

In summary

Threshold wrote:

The amount of notice depends on how long you have been in the tenancy. Below are the normal notice periods:

Duration of Tenancy Notice Period
Less than 6 months 28 days
6 months to 1 year 35 days
1-2 years 42 days
2-3 years 56 days
3-4 years 84 days
More than 4 years 112 days

Bass Cadet

Michael8000 wrote: »

All the details you need are in the link below

http://www.threshold.ie/advice/ending-a-tenancy/how-your-landlord-may-end-your-tenancy/

In summary

Thanks but what you've quoted is for a lease or written rental contract...I have nothing in writing. I think my best course of action is to email them all formally that I plan to move back into the house within the next two months and ask them how much time they think they need when I visit the house in person. Does that seem fair? Considering there is no lease or written contract? The link you provided does seem to have guidelines on this situations so I'll dig a bit deeper

godtabh

Bass Cadet wrote: »

Thanks but what you've quoted is for a lease or written rental contract...I have nothing in writing. I think my best course of action is to email them all formally that I plan to move back into the house within the next two months and ask them how much time they think they need when I visit the house in person. Does that seem fair? Considering there is no lease or written contract? The link you provided does seem to have guidelines on this situations so I'll dig a bit deeper

Doesnt matter. They are still entitled to the statutory minium notice

Penny Tration

Bass Cadet wrote: »

Thanks but what you've quoted is for a lease or written rental contract...I have nothing in writing. I think my best course of action is to email them all formally that I plan to move back into the house within the next two months and ask them how much time they think they need when I visit the house in person. Does that seem fair? Considering there is no lease or written contract? The link you provided does seem to have guidelines on this situations so I'll dig a bit deeper

The link provided covers part 4 tenancy. They don't need a lease to be covered by a part 4.

What has been posted is the correct notice that you are obliged to give them, in writing.

Bass Cadet

We'll see what happens... I'll talk to my solicitor. I'm actually still legally living there myself

Thanks for the help

green_screen wrote: »

The link provided covers part 4 tenancy. They don't need a lease to be covered by a part 4.

What has been posted is the correct notice that you are obliged to give them, in writing.

dudara

Why do you want to waste money on a solicitor when it's all available for free on the internet? Those are the minimum notice periods you have to give the tenants. However, if you talk to them, you might come to a mutual arrangement.

Bass Cadet

dudara wrote: »

Why do you want to waste money on a solicitor when it's all available for free on the internet? Those are the minimum notice periods you have to give the tenants. However, if you talk to them, you might come to a mutual arrangement.

My solicitor will give me that advice for free. I'm hoping we can come to a mutual agreement by talking to them...although one tenant is three weeks later with rent. Since I'm still legally living there maybe I'll just move in and sleep on my couch if there's any issues or stick a bed for myself in the kitchen. Thanks

jsd1004

Bass Cadet wrote: »

My solicitor will give me that advice for free. I'm hoping we can come to a mutual agreement by talking to them...although one tenant is three weeks later with rent. Since I'm still legally living there maybe I'll just move in and sleep on my couch if there's any issues or stick a bed for myself in the kitchen. Thanks

If they are just renting rooms and are effectively licensee they are not covered by Part 4 and no notice period applies. Obviously good practice would be to give them notice

Bass Cadet

jsd1004 wrote: »

If they are just renting rooms and are effectively licensee they are not covered by Part 4 and no notice period applies. Obviously good practice would be to give them notice

Yep...that is the case...they are all renting rooms individually. The address is still legally my home address and I 'live' there as far as any law is concerned

Autonomous

Bass Cadet wrote: »

I've moved back to Ireland. I'd like to move back into my own home asap. I have three tenants with whom I have no written contract or lease.

What is fair notice to vacate? Thirty days?
Thanks for any advice

How did you manage to live in another country and in your house at tge same time?

chatterkiller

green_screen wrote: »

The link provided covers part 4 tenancy. They don't need a lease to be covered by a part 4.

What has been posted is the correct notice that you are obliged to give them, in writing.

But part 4 doesn't apply if he wants to move back in there himself, I thought?

Bass Cadet

Autonomous wrote: »

How did you manage to live in another country and in your house at tge same time?

By getting required advice from my solicitor and renting the rooms individually rather than as a full property. It's the only property I own

Penny Tration

Bass Cadet wrote: »

Yep...that is the case...they are all renting rooms individually. The address is still legally my home address and I 'live' there as far as any law is concerned

Except you don't live there. You're pretending to.

Just do the legal thing instead of becoming a cowboy landlord.

Penny Tration

chatterkiller wrote: »

But part 4 doesn't apply if he wants to move back in there himself, I thought?

It does. Part 4 can be terminated upon the landlord moving in, but he is obliged to give the notice set out in the part 4.

athtrasna

Bass Cadet wrote: »

By getting required advice from my solicitor and renting the rooms individually rather than as a full property. It's the only property I own

Owning it and living in it are different things. Google illegal eviction judgements. Your tenants could get quite a lot of money if you don't follow the law. Also are you tax compliant? You can't qualify for the rent a room scheme if you're not ACTUALLY living there

bisset

It sounds like the other people in your house have a licence and are lodgers rather than tenants. Has your solicitor spoken to you about the non principal primary residence tax as you may he responsible for this and fines of a few thousands.

Can you prove that you have been resident in the house in Ireland for the required number of days a year for tax purposes?

athtrasna

bisset wrote: »

It sounds like the other people in your house have a licence and are lodgers rather than tenants. Has your solicitor spoken to you about the non principal primary residence tax as you may he responsible for this and fines of a few thousands.

Can you prove that you have been resident in the house in Ireland for the required number of days a year for tax purposes?

They can only have a licence if the landlord is actually resident

longhalloween

bisset wrote: »

Can you prove that you have been resident in the house in Ireland for the required number of days a year for tax purposes?

Presumably if all the bedrooms have been rented out, there's no way he can prove that he resides there?

Tigger

Something to consider is that although you were living there on paper you were not really living there and your tenants know this and can point it out
If you were t paying income tax here or collecting welfare here then it will be lead that you wernt living here
Not only will your tenants be entitled to good notice as per part 4 but if it's been four years you would have been liable for the nppr and your tenants would probably use this as leverage

Bass Cadet

green_screen wrote: »

Except you don't live there. You're pretending to.

Just do the legal thing instead of becoming a cowboy landlord.

I am doing the legal thing, thank you very much...keep your ignorant comments to yourself

athtrasna

Tigger wrote: »

Something to consider is that although you were living there on paper you were not really living there and your tenants know this and can point it out
If you were t paying income tax here or collecting welfare here then it will be lead that you wernt living here
Not only will your tenants be entitled to good notice as per part 4 but if it's been four years you would have been liable for the nppr and your tenants would probably use this as leverage

And income tax!

Timberrrrrrrr

Bass Cadet wrote: »

I am doing the legal thing, thank you very much...keep your ignorant comments to yourself

Actually you're not.

This is what i love about boards.

Op's will start a thread asking for advice.

Op's get advice from knowledgeable posters.

Op's don't like the advice they have been given as it does not suit their agenda/ideals/opinions.

Op's throw a hissy fit and resort to childish insults/name calling.

Rinse and repeat site wide.

Bass Cadet

athtrasna wrote: »

And income tax!

My legal position is that it's my residence. I own the house...they are renting rooms in my property which is my legal residence. i have a solicitor who has given me sound legal advice. I've started the thread to ask what's the fairest way to proceed yet I get insulted by people as a 'cowboy landlord' who have no idea whatsoever what they're talking about

Timberrrrrrrr

Bass Cadet wrote: »

My legal position is that it's my residence. I own the house...they are renting rooms in my property which is my legal residence. i have a solicitor who has given me sound legal advice. I've started the thread to ask what's the fairest way to proceed yet I get insulted by people as a 'cowboy landlord' who have no idea whatsoever what they're talking about

You may want to get a second opinion then.

Bass Cadet

Yes, I am doing the legal thing...do you own property? Do you know the details of my situation? Do you know that I returned every six months and lived there? Do you know that I paid and still pay income tax? Yet I'm not entitled to the dole...figure that one out

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Actually you're not.

This is what i love about boards.

Op's will start a thread asking for advice.

Op's get advice from knowledgeable posters.

Op's don't like the advice they have been given as it does not suit their agenda/ideals/opinions.

Op's throw a hissy fit and resort to childish insults/name calling.

Rinse and repeat site wide.

Mrs OBumble

Bass Cadet wrote: »

I am doing the legal thing, thank you very much...keep your ignorant comments to yourself

Pot, kettle, much.


OP, the law sets out the minimum notice that you have to give - and unless you have been paying tax as though you were living in Ireland, then I would expect that it applies to you.

That said, the law also lets you mutually agree to a shorter notice.

One way to get their agreement is to say that if they move out within a shorter time frame (eg within 60 days, instead of within 112 days), their liability for rent stops the very day they move out. This way, they don't end up paying double rent for a few weeks, which very often happens if people stick to legal notice periods.

Sometimes a friendly solution is more of a winner than the legal one.

Penny Tration

Bass Cadet wrote: »

My legal position is that it's my residence. I o wn the house...they are renting rooms in my property which is my legal residence. i have a solicitor who has given me sound legal advice. I've started the thread to ask what's the fairest way to proceed yet I get insulted by people as a 'cowboy landlord' who have no idea whatsoever what they're talking about

I didn't call you a cowboy landlord. I said you may become one.

You do not live in the residence. It is not your primary residence.

Did you instruct your tenants to withold 20% of the rent for the period you were away, to cover taxes?

Did you register the tanancies with the prtb?

Or did you pretend it was a rent a room scheme so that you could avoid tax?

How can you claim you live there if all rooms have been occupied by tenants? GGetting mail to the house isn't proof.

wersal gummage

Yeah because a reputable landlord would consider putting a mattress in the kitchen and sleeping there, presumably as a way to try make your tenants lives a misery and encourage them to move out early (not withstanding the fact that you 'already live there')! If the revenue come after you,' my solicitor said' isn't going to make them go away.

athtrasna

Bass Cadet wrote: »

My legal position is that it's my residence. I own the house...they are renting rooms in my property which is my legal residence. i have a solicitor who has given me sound legal advice. I've started the thread to ask what's the fairest way to proceed yet I get insulted by people as a 'cowboy landlord' who have no idea whatsoever what they're talking about

It cannot be your legal residence if you don't reside there. That's basic English and common sense and the law! You didn't even live in the same country, no lawyer can make a case for it being your residence because pure and simple it wasn't. It was your property, but not your NPPR and not your residence.

Bass Cadet

Where's the hissy fit? Where are the insults? I've been called a cowboy landlord while thanking posters for their input....read the thread

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Actually you're not.

This is what i love about boards.

Op's will start a thread asking for advice.

Op's get advice from knowledgeable posters.

Op's don't like the advice they have been given as it does not suit their agenda/ideals/opinions.

Op's throw a hissy fit and resort to childish insults/name calling.

Rinse and repeat site wide.

Timberrrrrrrr

Bass Cadet wrote: »

Yes, I am doing the legal thing...do you own property? Do you know the details of my situation? Do you know that I returned every six months and lived there? Do you know that I paid and still pay income tax? Yet I'm not entitled to the dole...figure that one out

You asked for advice and were not happy with the advice given, You seem to be getting very angry because people are not slapping you on the back and saying attaboy. Do what you will and i'm sure if it's all legal you will have no worries. If it's not........

Bass Cadet

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You asked for advice and were not happy with the advice given, You seem to be getting very angry because people are not slapping you on the back and saying attaboy. Do what you will and i'm sure if it's all legal you will have no worries. If it's not........

Oh I'm not worried buddy...your idea of 'anger' is strange...Thanks for the input

Penny Tration

You know what, op? Kick your tenants out, as your solicitor has suggested.

I just hope they're smart enough to sue you for illegal eviction, report you for not registering, and tax evasion.

Good luck.

Timberrrrrrrr

Bass Cadet wrote: »

Where's the hissy fit? Where are the insults? I've been called a cowboy landlord while thanking posters for their input....read the thread

Bass Cadet wrote: »

I am doing the legal thing, thank you very much...keep your ignorant comments to yourself

Bass Cadet

I need somewhere to live...I've said I'll talk them in person and try to come to a mutual agreement... I don't think I've said anything unfair in the thread...in fact I've given more information than I need to.

Thank you all for the excellent input

wersal gummage wrote: »

Yeah because a reputable landlord would consider putting a mattress in the kitchen and sleeping there, presumably as a way to try make your tenants lives a misery and encourage them to move out early (not withstanding the fact that you 'already live there')! If the revenue come after you,' my solicitor said' isn't going to make them go away.

MileyPrice

Temper temper Bass Cadet hahaha

Timberrrrrrrr

Bass Cadet wrote: »

I need somewhere to live...I've said I'll talk them in person and try to come to a mutual agreement... I don't think I've said anything unfair in the thread...in fact I've given more information than I need to.

Thank you all for the excellent input

Bass Cadet wrote: »

One guy has been there four years... one three and the other two...I'm in no hurry but I'd like to give them notice so I can get in there and clean it up...but want to give them enough time. Although two of the three have been exceptionally bad tenants ie always late with rent

Maybe I'll just email them all formally and tell them I'll go in and talk to them about it...time they would need etc. Although nothing is in writing I think sitting down and talking is better

Bass Cadet wrote: »

My solicitor will give me that advice for free. I'm hoping we can come to a mutual agreement by talking to them...although one tenant is three weeks later with rent. Since I'm still legally living there maybe I'll just move in and sleep on my couch if there's any issues or stick a bed for myself in the kitchen. Thanks

You sure do like to contradict yourself, Simple question for you.....reverse the roles.....you're the tenant and the LL turns up saying you have to leave......what would you do? I know what route i would take if someone tried to railroad me.

Frank Lee Midere

green_screen wrote: »

I didn't call you a cowboy landlord. I said you may become one.

You do not live in the residence. It is not your primary residence.

Did you instruct your tenants to withold 20% of the rent for the period you were away, to cover taxes?

Did you register the tanancies with the prtb?

Or did you pretend it was a rent a room scheme so that you could avoid tax?

How can you claim you live there if all rooms have been occupied by tenants? GGetting mail to the house isn't proof.

He's claiming rent a room because he "legally lived there". I suppose he contracted abroad and paid tax here. That's on the cusp of legality.

Penny Tration

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

He's claiming rent a room because he "legally lived there". I suppose he contracted abroad and paid tax here. That's on the cusp of legality.

He can't claim rent a room. He didn't live there. He lived outside of the country, with all rooms in his house rented out. Getting his letters sent to the house doesn't mean he lived there.

Timberrrrrrrr

green_screen wrote: »

He can't claim rent a room. He didn't live there. He lived outside of the country, with all rooms in his house rented out. Getting his letters sent to the house doesn't mean he lived there.

But but but

He got sound legal advice from his solicitor

The_Morrigan

WOW OP, this is not the way to ask for advice or treat the regulars of a forum.
Your solicitor is giving you bad advice, please go get a second opinion, a paid one at that as you've got yourself in one hell of a mess.Your house maybe where you get your official correspondence sent to but you are not legally living there if all the rooms are rented out to tenants.
I'd also like to remind you of this.....http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65391023&postcount=1

The link provided early on in the thread is correct and right, those tenants are entitled to those notice periods at a minimum under Part IV tenancies (which kicked in after six months of renting in your house).
If you attempt the illegal eviction, your tenants can go to the PRTB and you could be liable to pay out damages for that.
If you have not registered the tenancies with the PRTB, there are also fines for that oversight.
A disgruntled tenant may contact the Revenue - you've been assuming the rent a room scheme for the last four years; Revenue don't like that, expect a call.

I hope you have a lot of savings to cover off the chance of having one hell of a pay out to make if you proceed in your current line of thinking.

Alternatively, you could not act the dick, obey the law, try come to a mutually beneficial agreement with your tenants and have everyone move out/in happily. Cowboy tactics like letting yourself in and sleeping on the couch or in the kitchen will result in the tenants causing hell for you, so be very careful how you proceed.

Mod Bit: This thread is a train wreck and I'm not happy to leave it open considering the manner in which you have interacted with the forum regulars.
/Thread Closed