Bullied at work...

Ms_J

I've a friend who is being bullied at work by both her boss and manager. She is working there a year on the 15th of this month and has only had one days holiday. Every time she requests time off which has to be 9 weeks in advance it doesn't get approval. They told her that because she's still 'on probation' she's not entitled to holidays. She's on probation since she started. In her year there she had one complaint from a client over which she was given a verbal warning. She had done the clients nails and the varnish had chipped which has as much to do with cheap product as my friends standard of work and in my opinion too minor an issue for a verbal warning.
My friend is so stressed out. I'm worried about her. She fainted recently at work and the doctor signed her off for three days for exhaustion and stress. On returning to work her boss made her do a return to work interview to see if she was fit for the job. Her manager regularly books in clients for her on her lunch break so she ends up only getting 30 minute lunch and her boss holds weekly meetings on her lunch break also. There are other girls working there too but they always get their full hour. She feels like they want her to quit but she can't afford to. Can anyone offer advice on what she should do? She was tried talking to her boss but if anything things got worse after..

Alice___5

She could take off days for bank holidays, for example the last Monday the 27th of October is a bank holiday so she could take that day off with pay as it's a public holiday or choose to have a different day off with pay, you should look up NERA or ring them and see what she's entitled to
This is what I found online;
Your entitlement to public holidays is set out in the Organization of Working Time Act 1997. Most employees are entitled to paid leave on public holidays. One exception is part-time employees who have not worked for their employer at least 40 hours in total in the 5 weeks before the public holiday.
Employees who qualify will be entitled to either the public holiday off as paid leave or one of the following alternatives:

A paid day off within a month of the public holiday
An additional day of annual leave
An additional day's pay
The nearest church holiday to the public holiday as a paid day off

Ms_J

Alice___5 wrote: »

She could take off days for bank holidays, for example the last Monday the 27th of October is a bank holiday so she could take that day off with pay as it's a public holiday or choose to have a different day off with pay, you should look up NERA or ring them and see what she's entitled to
This is what I found online;
Your entitlement to public holidays is set out in the Organization of Working Time Act 1997. Most employees are entitled to paid leave on public holidays. One exception is part-time employees who have not worked for their employer at least 40 hours in total in the 5 weeks before the public holiday.
Employees who qualify will be entitled to either the public holiday off as paid leave or one of the following alternatives:

A paid day off within a month of the public holiday
An additional day of annual leave
An additional day's pay
The nearest church holiday to the public holiday as a paid day off

Thank you. She works full time 6 days a week. I will pass this information onto her. Do you think she'd have a case for bullying?

professore

Surely she's legally entitled to 20 days paid leave a year, especially if she's working 6 days a week?

Sounds like bullying to me big time.

Alice___5

Ms_J wrote: »

Thank you. She works full time 6 days a week. I will pass this information onto her. Do you think she'd have a case for bullying?

Yeah it sounds unfair that she's expected to work during her lunch break and refused holidays, I think NERA give advice on these kind of situations, and I'm not sure but I think they do inspections aswell, if you look up employmentrights.ie you might find out more and you could ring them anonymously or something

Ms_J

professore wrote: »

Surely she's legally entitled to 20 days paid leave a year, especially if she's working 6 days a week?

Sounds like bullying to me big time.

Sorry that should say 5 days per week.. Typo!! Many moons ago when I worked in Dunnes part time my holidays calculated at 8% of hours worked.. I thought a probationary period could only last a up to 12 weeks..

Shelflife

Whats really important is that she doesnt do anything until after the 15th when she will be there for 1 year.

her rights are substantially improved after a year.

Ms_J

Shelflife wrote: »

Whats really important is that she doesnt do anything until after the 15th when she will be there for 1 year.

her rights are substantially improved after a year.

I will try to get her to call nera and the employment rights people. The hardest part of it all is she's really she's so beaten down hence why I'm trying to find out her rights.. It's disgusting what people get away with!!

Manach

Hopefully the OP's friend will (after the year mark) get's her holidays. Unfortunately a minority of managers (aided by the poor economy) have adapted a leadership still that is more akin to master/servant than actually trying modern means of management that shows the a rested worker is a productive one.

Ms_J

Manach wrote: »

Hopefully the OP's friend will (after the year mark) get's her holidays. Unfortunately a minority of managers (aided by the poor economy) have adapted a leadership still that is more akin to master/servant than actually trying modern means of management that shows the a rested worker is a productive one.

It's sheer greed on their part.. She has 10 years experience and absolutely glowing references and a following of clients.. For the first time ever she is questioning her ability..

Ms_J

Ms_J wrote: »

It's sheer greed on their part.. She has 10 years experience and absolutely glowing references and a following of clients.. For the first time ever she is questioning her ability..

Sorry for my ranting I'm so angry because she in tears this evening after being told today she can't have next week off. She had requested it in the beginning of July and her friend is arriving from London tomorrow for the week.

prettygurrly

She doesn't have to be there a year to get holidays! All employees are entitled to 8% of their worked time as holidays...this works out as 20 days if you work full time in a year. I'd recommend she meets with a solicitor ASAP...but as others have said, wait till after the year anniversary to take any action. A solicitor will be able to advise her of her rights, catalogue the treatment, and if necessary issue a letter politely informing her employer of her rights to annual leave. If she was dismissed following this then she would have a case for unfair dismissals based on her raising the issue correctly with a solicitor. Please please please tell her to sort this out. Also 9 weeks notice is ridiculous for annual leave! Did she make her request for annual leave in writing? Are there any emails that can be used as proof of asking within the correct time frame? So many questions...

Alice___5

Ms_J wrote: »

Sorry for my ranting I'm so angry because she in tears this evening after being told today she can't have next week off. She had requested it in the beginning of July and her friend is arriving from London tomorrow for the week.

Yeah it sounds extremely unfair, I wouldn't tolerate it if I were in her situation, I'd be tempted to just call in "sick" to piss them off for being so unfair about it, but I suppose she doesn't want to be in their bad books either

Ms_J

prettygurrly wrote: »

She doesn't have to be there a year to get holidays! All employees are entitled to 8% of their worked time as holidays...this works out as 20 days if you work full time in a year. I'd recommend she meets with a solicitor ASAP...but as others have said, wait till after the year anniversary to take any action. A solicitor will be able to advise her of her rights, catalogue the treatment, and if necessary issue a letter politely informing her employer of her rights to annual leave. If she was dismissed following this then she would have a case for unfair dismissals based on her raising the issue correctly with a solicitor. Please please please tell her to sort this out. Also 9 weeks notice is ridiculous for annual leave! Did she make her request for annual leave in writing? Are there any emails that can be used as proof of asking within the correct time frame? So many questions...

As far as I know it was requested via email. I've told her to keep a diary. And she's been going through old messages emails to get dates of incidents etc.

conorh91

This is not legal advice, but a constant theme in workplace bullying cases is that complaints must be made to management, orally or in writing, when problems of a bullying nature arise.

There are a few avenues open to employees; negligence (with psychiatric illness); other tort; health safety and welfare at work act are most typical.

Breach of contract (losing the trust and confidence of an employer)/ constructive dismissal is another possibility.

I have no competence in employment law so treat this like anything you find on the internet.

Nevertheless, to add something to the discussion, I think it's about time we had standalone legislation on bullying in the workplace, or bullying in general.

Ms_J

Alice___5 wrote: »

Yeah it sounds extremely unfair, I wouldn't tolerate it if I were in her situation, I'd be tempted to just call in "sick" to piss them off for being so unfair about it, but I suppose she doesn't want to be in their bad books either

That's what I said to her but the atmosphere is so horrible already without making it worse. She's stuck it this long a couple of weeks won't make any difference.. Thanks for your advice

Ms_J

conorh91 wrote: »

This is not legal advice, but a constant theme in workplace bullying cases is that complaints must be made to management, orally or in writing, when problems of a bullying nature arise.

There are a few avenues open to employees; negligence; other tort; health safety and welfare at work act are most typical.

Breach of contract (losing the trust and confidence of an employer)/ constructive dismissal is another possibility.

I have no competence in employment law so treat this like anything you find on the internet.

Nevertheless, to add something to the discussion, I think it's about time we had standalone legislation on bullying in the workplace, or bullying in general.

I completely agree but what happens when the person she's to make a complaint to is the bully. She was accused of stealing by her boss and her till code and her keys were taken off her. A couple of weeks later it came to light the manager had dealt with a voucher incorrectly yet she's still not allowed operate the till..

conorh91

Ms_J wrote: »

I completely agree but what happens when the person she's to make a complaint to is the bully.

Good question. I assume that would only apply when the manager is the Managing Director/ the owner of the business.

I have experienced it myself with an SME owner, and I appreciate how frustrating it is. In my case, I wrote a formal complaint anyway, even though it seemed a bit farcical.

I was basically an office gopher, on summer holidays. The business owner never hired anyone over the age of about 25, and was very fond of hiring student and female employees, and I'm convinced that's because those categories are less likely to be assertive in a hostile environment. Bullies pick their targets carefully.

Grown-up companies will have procedures in place for this kind of complaint.

Again, I don't have the competence to give advice, but if an employee, who feels they are being bullied, does not make a complaint, it seems to me they are seriously restricting their capacity to hold a bully to account.

Ms_J

Thank you all for your advice.. I will pass it on..

Bepolite

Legal advice can't be given her so some practical advice from personal experience. Either find another job and/or engage the services of an employment solicitor. Solicitors are like plumpers, phone round, find one that isn't a gobsh!te and that is willing to give you a steer for free/very little in an initial consultation, which is going to be short.

If things start going tits up, they're then on hand to negotiate references, notice/severance payments. Realistically though if the boss is an arse nothing is going to change that.

MrBobbyZ

I think probationary periods can last up to 6 months, with a further 6 months added.
That was the terms in a job I had a few years ago. The additional 6 months could only be imposed after a meeting between employee and management explaining the areas of the employees work which required improving.

Awful situation OP. The best advice is for your friend to start searching for a new job. This employer hasnt a clue and it is doubtful your friends working conditions will improve enough to stay long term, even if she gets her annual leave sorted out.

MouseTail

Head down until the 15th, and then go to a solicitor pronto. They are in big trouble for denying any holidays. Disgusting behaviour from the employers.

prettygurrly

and once again...just because you're on probation DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN'T GET ANNUAL LEAVE. A probationary period is just to make it easier to let you go if it's not working out rather than all the hooha you would usually go through if not in a probationary period. All the other aspects of your work should conform to the act including proper breaks, overtime, etc. I'd start talking to a solicitor now, she doesn't need to tell anyone about it and the solicitor won't either.

lightspeed

If her rights are being violated and she is being bullied by the sounds of it, she could take a constructive dismissal case against her employer.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/dismissal/constructive_dismissal.html

It is where an employee can no longer work due to the conduct of the employer and so resigns, She can take legal action as a result. As far as i know, if her claim was successfull, she could be awarded between 2 to 3 times her yearly salary.

Doe she even have a valid employment contract?

She has not been given the holidays she is entitled amongst others things by the sounds of it and has medical evidence to prove it had resulted in health issues.

Sounds like the employer would not have a leg to stand on. What is stopping her from making a complaint to a rights commissioner?

Shelflife

prettygurrly wrote: »

and once again...just because you're on probation DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN'T GET ANNUAL LEAVE. A probationary period is just to make it easier to let you go if it's not working out rather than all the hooha you would usually go through if not in a probationary period. All the other aspects of your work should conform to the act including proper breaks, overtime, etc. I'd start talking to a solicitor now, she doesn't need to tell anyone about it and the solicitor won't either.

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that you can't get your holidays during a probationary period.

Most are just suggesting that she doesn't rock the boat at all until the year is under her belt, when a whole host of rights become her entitlement.

prettygurrly

Yeah I suppose I picked up on a post incorrectly...but probably worth reiterating the point in case anyone missed it.

I suppose she hasn't made a claim yet due to a lack of confidence. Being bullied for months on end can make you think that no one will believe you, that if you do say something that things will only get worse, that if you do constructive dismissal it may make you unemployable in the future (which it shouldn't), and it also takes guts to stand up to a bully and it's even more difficult if they're your boss...

lightspeed

prettygurrly wrote: »

Yeah I suppose I picked up on a post incorrectly...but probably worth reiterating the point in case anyone missed it.

I suppose she hasn't made a claim yet due to a lack of confidence. Being bullied for months on end can make you think that no one will believe you, that if you do say something that things will only get worse, that if you do constructive dismissal it may make you unemployable in the future (which it shouldn't), and it also takes guts to stand up to a bully and it's even more difficult if they're your boss...

I highly doubt it would make her unemployable and im sure most employers would not be alarmed if they heard the bulk of abuses committed and particuarlly if she won her case.

Also, im sure she could just say she left for personal reasons or to go travelling. Im pretty sure it would not say constructive dismissal on her P45 so her new employer would not have to know that she left her previous job via constructive dismissal.

From the sounds of it, her current employer would not give her a decent reference at the moment so that should not be a factor when considering taking any action.

prettygurrly

Agreed with you on all points. However, I'm not sure what industry you work in but the girl in question is a beautician and could quite possibly be working in a small enough town...these things have a habit of getting out whether you disclose them to a future employer or not. Finally, I was just answering the question of why she may not have taken action sooner...being bullied makes you completely irrational - hence why you have young teens doing the unthinkable.

goz83

If i were in the position of the OPs friend, I would be getting all the ammo I could via email contact about the holidays and refusal of such. I would be asking why 9 weeks is necessary in the first place and why refusal was given on such shirt notice. I would go on the sick sometime around the end of the month and then start emailing, because I would then have time to reflect on my employment. I would also be using this time to find another job and then I would return to work and break down in front of everyone after the inevitable tongue lashing from the boss. I would walk out of the job and stock up on popcorn after bringing the case to my solicitor the next day. Your friend is entitled to be paid for the holidays she did not take, so that's 3 weeks pay to keep her going.

lightspeed

I understand, any thought of taking legal action can be quite intimidating but I think you should try your best to communicate to your friend the position she is in, in that her employer is committing abuses which they would not have a leg to stand on with a rights commissioner.

It can go on long this forever,. I mean she already at the point where she is having medical issues and fainting so what is the line that she wont allow them to cross? What if the stress they are putting her under brings on a heart attack? There are reasons why health and safety requires employers to give proper breaks and annual leave.

I dont mean to sound condescending and I apologise if I come across that way but it angers me to both see how employers are willing to take advantage and bully people in a country like Ireland where we have a wealth of employment legislation protecting employees and also how passive Irish people are at making use of such legislation.

Also it seems likely that should would win a claim for constructive dismissal and thus receive a sum of money.

Could she not learn to drive if she cant already, get a car and find work in a beauty salon in another town?

The company i work for works soley for a state body and are also violating employment laws. They have tried at times to intimidate me saying i should be carefull about what i say, which to my mind I am as I only say things that I can prove to be factually accurate. I know they cant fire me for calling them out on their BS. They know i have some legal education and dont ever dare to issue me any disciplinary action as they have with others. I openly challenge them to issue me with disciplinary actions if they think they can defend their actions to a rights commissioner.

So from what i see with my own experience and read, it seems that even with added or enhanced employment legislation, employers seem more willing than ever to commit abuses as they know how passive Irish people are. Perhaps more so because of the economic climate, they know people dont want to rock the boat.

Bepolite

Bear in mind engaging an employment solicitor will rarely result in legal action. This is a last resort and best avoided.

seagull

I'd say the employer is up the creek without a paddle having refused all requests for leave. They are in breach of employment law.

RichardoKhan

Leave............pure & simple. Other jobs out there. NO job should make you ill or no holidays....