Bulls, how to avoid annoying them

Riverireland

Hi, hoping for some advice here. How dangerous are bulls if you don't provoke them. Is it safe enough to horse ride in a field next to one with a bull and cows in it. Would thee be any chance of the bull breaking through a Woden fence? There may also be some children and dogs around making noise. Is it safe to be around bulls like this or are they to be totally avoided. Am being told by the farmer that's there is no big deal but feel unsure. Thanks.

Kovu

Riverireland wrote: »

Hi, hoping for some advice here. How dangerous are bulls if you don't provoke them. Is it safe enough to horse ride in a field next to one with a bull and cows in it. Would thee be any chance of the bull breaking through a Woden fence? There may also be some children and dogs around making noise. Is it safe to be around bulls like this or are they to be totally avoided. Am being told by the farmer that's there is no big deal but feel unsure. Thanks.

What exactly are you going to be doing next to the cattle

It would take quite a lot to make a bull break through a fence imo. But as long as you're not taunting them or antagonising the cattle (throwing stones to make them run, running around the field with them in it! etc) Just don't go into the field and try to keep the dogs away from them at all times. That would be the biggest worry for me, the bull would not be very happy with the dogs if they were running around the field.

RossieMan

you're not from a farming background are you, OP?

most bulls are harmless. If you hit them, throw stuff at them, corner them, they may re-act with a charge.

Being in a field next to them should be no problem. They may just run away, or depending on how quiet they are, come over for a look.

skoger

I'd be wary of the cows with the dogs especially if there are calves about.

Keep the dogs under control and an eye on the kids and you should be okay

ganmo

just make sure the dogs don't get through the fence.

Riverireland

Riverireland wrote: »

Hi, hoping for some advice here. How dangerous are bulls if you don't provoke them. Is it safe enough to horse ride in a field next to one with a bull and cows in it. Would thee be any chance of the bull breaking through a Woden fence? There may also be some children and dogs around making noise. Is it safe to be around bulls like this or are they to be totally avoided. Am being told by the farmer that's there is no big deal but feel unsure. Thanks.

Not been on a farm for a long time and no experience with bulls hence the question. The dogs at just small pets and kept on leads, not really barkers either. Certainly won't deliberately antagonise the cattle. Just wondering if our presence would be enough to irritate a bull. How territorial are bulls? Someone told be to keep 20 feet away as that is their space.... Sorry for the thick questions but better safe than sorry as I would like a couple of horses in that field. He kept staring at us last weekend, would feel really silly saying anything to the farmer...Thanks.

meathstevie

Riverireland wrote: »

Not been on a farm for a long time and no experience with bulls hence the question. The dogs at just small pets and kept on leads, not really barkers either. Certainly won't deliberately antagonise the cattle. Just wondering if our presence would be enough to irritate a bull. How territorial are bulls? Someone told be to keep 20 feet away as that is their space.... Sorry for the thick questions but better safe than sorry as I would like a couple of horses in that field. He kept staring at us last weekend, would feel really silly saying anything to the farmer...Thanks.

The bull doesn't know that your dogs are essentially lapdogs, he can ultimately see them as a threatening predator so some caution is needed. Having said that cows with calves and dogs are a lot worse a mixture.

As long as the farmers' fencing is up to scratch and the cattle are under control as in unable to wander in and out of the field under normal circumstances there is nothing you can reasonably say to the farmer.

I'd put some value on the farmers' opinion as well. If he knows the bull as a docile animal there's probably more than a grain of truth in it. Farmers for obvious reasons aren't too fond of volatile bulls either, they often get a quick trip to Kepak or Dunbia and the like.

Generally an unprovoked bull does not attack anything or anyone so giving it plenty of space will quite likely prevent any issues.

Murray007

I am from a farming background and my family are involved with breeding pedigree bulls.

I am off the opinion that no bull (or cow) can be trusted where are inexperienced people, dogs, cow and calves interacting. Different breds have differing tolerance levels, for example I have found aberdeen angus cows to be potentially very agressive when there are new born calves with them even though you could lead the same cows around with a chain at other times.

I have know two instances where men who have had the same bull for years and then for no apparent reason the bull has attacked them resulting in the bull being put down (sent to the factory).

Cattle can react very badly to dogs, even if they are on a lead, or kids where their size makes them not recognisable to the herd as people. My brother and I were seriously charged at when we were young by our own herd. We were walking away from them in the rain, both with brown duffle coats on us with the hoods up. The cattle reacted to us as they didn't know what we were. The charge stopped we turned around and faced them. We knew not to run as we had experience of cattle, if we had run there is no doubt we would have been trampled.

In another incident, I was walking down the road as a child along one of our fields. I was hitting the hedge with a stick as I was going along and then became aware that the bull was following me on the other side of the hedge. I stopped hitting the hedge and all of a sudden he tried to jump the hedge to get at me, landed in the middle and got stuck on his side. He was definately irrated by me hitting the hedge in his territory and despite him knowing me, he set out to let me know who was boss. It took four men and two hours to get him out of the hedge, and I got the blame for the whole incident!

I think farmers in general under estimate how animals will react in certain senarios and especially where there are people who are not experienced at reading the warning signs.

Sorry to be negative but you are right to be careful.

BTW, I would say the same about being wary around highly bred horses, rams, etc.

Riverireland

Murray007 wrote: »

I am from a farming background and my family are involved with breeding pedigree bulls.

I am off the opinion that no bull (or cow) can be trusted where are inexperienced people, dogs, cow and calves interacting. Different breds have differing tolerance levels, for example I have found aberdeen angus cows to be potentially very agressive when there are new born calves with them even though you could lead the same cows around with a chain at other times.

I have know two instances where men who have had the same bull for years and then for no apparent reason the bull has attacked them resulting in the bull being put down (sent to the factory).

Cattle can react very badly to dogs, even if they are on a lead, or kids where their size makes them not recognisable to the herd as people. My brother and I were seriously
charged at when we were young by our own herd. We were walking away from them in the rain, both with brown duffle coats on us with the hoods up. The cattle reacted to us as they didn't know what we were. The charge stopped we turned around and faced them. We knew not to run as we had experience of cattle, if we had run there is no doubt we would have been trampled.

In another incident, I was walking down the road as a child along one of our fields. I was hitting the hedge with a stick as I was going along and then became aware that the bull was following me on the other side of the hedge. I stopped hitting the hedge and all of a sudden he tried to jump the hedge to get at me, landed in the middle and got stuck on his side. He was definately irrated by me hitting the hedge in his territory and despite him knowing me, he set out to let me know who was boss. It took four men and two hours to get him out of the hedge, and I got the blame for the whole incident!

I think farmers in general under estimate how animals will react in certain senarios and especially where there are people who are not experienced at reading the warning signs.

Sorry to be negative but you are right to be careful.

BTW, I would say the same about being wary around highly bred horses, rams, etc.

Great post, thanks a million. See I am familiar with both horses and ponies, and domestic animals so do have an understanding of animal behaviour, but none with cattle or bulls. I would have nothing to do with stallions thought plenty of people find them fine they are just too challenging for me, which probably is why the bull concerns me. The cattle are moved between fields and there is a high chance were we to use this land that we would come into contact with them from time to time. Just wanted to see potentially what the risks from the cattle and bull(one very large and I think quite a few younger ones) would be. Horses are also unpredictable and spooky so maybe it's not a good combination after all. More opinions welcome and thanks for everything so far.

greysides

I would suggest that now you are aware of the in's and out's you just exercise common-sense and caution.

On one hand bulls needn't be feared irrationally and on the other they require respect and circumspection.

Every bull is different. One thing to bear in mind is that a known aggressive bull is less likely to kill you than a quiet one.

Limestone Cowboy

Bulls and cows get annoyed at times for no reason what so ever and a dog will provoke them. They are only quiet until the day they decide to try and kill you. I have had way too many close encounters with suckler cows but only the one with a bull so don't think he is the only loose cannon lurking in the field. My advice op is to stay out of the fields they are in and I'm surprised I'm the first to say it on here. You may aswell bring a sign in saying ''hello cattle, confront me please'' as bring in a dog because that's what will happen.

milkprofit

RossieMan wrote: »

you're not from a farming background are you, OP?

most bulls are harmless. If you hit them, throw stuff at them, corner them, they may re-act with a charge.

Being in a field next to them should be no problem. They may just run away, or depending on how quiet they are, come over for a look.

This is true for some
But some bulls can become killing machines for no reason
When some one gets killed it is usually by the (quite ) bull
Why take chances

Farmer

Another thing to look out for with dogs is

Angry newly calved cow chases dog
Dog gets scared and runs to you
Cow runs you both down

Always carry a good stick just in case

sandydan

milkprofit wrote: »

This is true for some
But some bulls can become killing machines for no reason
When some one gets killed it is usually by the (quite ) bull
Why take chances

+1 for that advice, know one 25 yr old attacked by his own quite bull, he rolled under fence wire and got over gate,played GAA and is fit as they come.
another farmer was changing fence when bull and cattle walked up near him as often did before that day,bull gave him one puck of his head and walked away quite as mouse. mans wife who was sitting in car outside entrance to paddock. saw what happened before she realized how serious injuries were, she rang ,doctor ,ambulance and neighbours to bring tractors to isolate cattle from where her husband was lying in field, crippled from neck down he died about 7 years later.
as for dogs a dog trainer warned me never, ever bring young cattle dogs or pets into where cows or cattle of any description are,. a bovine always attacks that what is smaller than it , child, dog, pets etc makes no difference, a cow with a calf will attack any stranger, herdsman or any animal coming in vicinity of her or calf. a young cattle dog or pet will run behind owner, the cow will attack whoever is in front of the dog ie owner. an experienced or old cattle dog if attacked will run out into open ground or field,if cattle in field keep out, no exception unless accompanied by owner.

Farmer Pudsey

About 15 years ago my better half was out on the patio, it was near a boundary to a field and there was only a block wall between her and the field. A next store neighbour had cows with a Friesian bull. Bull started to snort and turn his head sideways and chin in.

Because she was from a farming background she got the kids into the kitchen and closed the patio door. He then started to paw the ground. She was fair scared with reason, she closed the curtains moved the children into the sitting room and kept an eye from the hall. My bucko stayed for another 10 minutes before he ambled down the field.

Bulls are highly dangerous and can turn on even people they are used to not to mind turning on strangers. They are territorial in that they may consider anything that they are unused to a danger and consider it a threat to their herd. If the farmer has an electric fence get him to run it along the back of your fence. Consider planting a hedge along bounds, whitethorn is a good barrier as it berberis ottawensis superba a copper coloured decidious bush that is easier to control that whitethorn

Feckthis

I wouldn't trust any animal fully. I would always have my wits about me when I'm around cattle like don't step between a cow and her calf or if I have one of the kids with me they are on my shoulders or in my arms..Little changes can spook cattle and they usual charge when your back is turned. I always keep looking back when walking away from them and if they do charge Turn around and shout and jump and make as much noise as you can it's Snaps them out of there thinking and makes them wonder what to do next. They are expecting you to run as that is what they would do if being chased. I hate when cattle surround me I always like to be on the outside of them. I'm talking continentals here. Dairy cows are usual always well behaved.

sandydan

no they are not if contrary. had one who attacked daughter if gate was lower she would be dead, or if nearer to gate, she fell just at bottom bar of gate and cow pucked her under it, my father rip reconed that a pet could be worst of all, i have one and sometime id have to be wary shed puck you hard if behind

Murray007

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Bulls and cows get annoyed at times for no reason what so ever and a dog will provoke them. They are only quiet until the day they decide to try and kill you. I have had way too many close encounters with suckler cows but only the one with a bull so don't think he is the only loose cannon lurking in the field. My advice op is to stay out of the fields they are in and I'm surprised I'm the first to say it on here. You may aswell bring a sign in saying ''hello cattle, confront me please'' as bring in a dog because that's what will happen.

Hey read the posts, your are not the first to warn of the unpredictability of cattle on this thread!

Limestone Cowboy

Murray007 wrote: »

Hey read the posts, your are not the first to warn of the unpredictability of cattle on this thread!

I was the first to say stay out of the fields with cattle in them and that's what I was referring to. To be honest when someone asks if it's ok to bring small children and dogs around them that's the only answer they should get.

kay 9

Bulls are to be expected,

TheCoolWay

Bring in a few heifers into his field just before you arrive. That should distract him

sandydan

TheCoolWay wrote: »

Bring in a few heifers into his field just before you arrive. That should distract him

it may not and certainly from my experience with a cow it may aggravte her a damn sight more

Riverireland

The advice here has been amazing and I really do appreciate those of you with so much knowledge taking the time to give me the benefit of your experience! My gut instant was that particularly kids on ponies, who might bolt, kids fall off etc, coupled with cattle around was a danger. Would have thought I'd be ok on a horse (cows rumoured to be afraid of them) but I've changed my mind. The dogs I didn't really even consider a problem until I read the posts. I won't be going ahead with this arrangement but out of curiously have any of you heard of problems with cows or bulls with horses? Just in case I encounter them somewhere in the future by accident, on a road etc? Thanks again, delighted with the info and far safer because of ye all.

Milked out

Riverireland wrote: »

The advice here has been amazing and I really do appreciate those of you with so much knowledge taking the time to give me the benefit of your experience! My gut instant was that particularly kids on ponies, who might bolt, kids fall off etc, coupled with cattle around was a danger. Would have thought I'd be ok on a horse (cows rumoured to be afraid of them) but I've changed my mind. The dogs I didn't really even consider a problem until I read the posts. I won't be going ahead with this arrangement but out of curiously have any of you heard of problems with cows or bulls with horses? Just in case I encounter them somewhere in the future by accident, on a road etc? Thanks again, delighted with the info and far safer because of ye all.

The key msg really is control. Dogs on a lead, never off it near cattle as I dunno how many times I've been told " my dog wouldn't harm a fly" or he doesn't leave the garden only for me to catch the dog at it or actually bring the owner to see for themselves. If you are in a separate field and keeping a distance from the fence a horse should b ok once not thundering past once you are in control of it

J.O. Farmer

Riverireland wrote: »

Hi, hoping for some advice here. How dangerous are bulls if you don't provoke them. Is it safe enough to horse ride in a field next to one with a bull and cows in it. Would thee be any chance of the bull breaking through a Woden fence? There may also be some children and dogs around making noise. Is it safe to be around bulls like this or are they to be totally avoided. Am being told by the farmer that's there is no big deal but feel unsure. Thanks.

while I agree with the advice given on the thread about bulls being dangerous you've got to use common sense. I take it you would be in a seperate field to the bull with a dividing fence.
How big is the field the bull is in. Is he in a field of 10 or 20 acres with cows or is it a half acre garden on his own. Bulls rarely cross fences of a proper standard unless there's a female in heat in the next field and even then the female is more likely togo to him. OObviously if you are in the next field and you see the bull looking for a way in and like you're aggravating him I'd leave. If he's passing no heed and moving away to the far end of his own big field you're probably fine. Obviously don't let the dogs loose to run into the field with the bull and warn the children not to go in either. If you're used to dealing with horses and having children around then you're probably familiar enough with the sort of approach to take.

Riverireland

Milked out wrote: »

The key msg really is control. Dogs on a lead, never off it near cattle as I dunno how many times I've been told " my dog wouldn't harm a fly" or he doesn't leave the garden only for me to catch the dog at it or actually bring the owner to see for themselves. If you are in a separate field and keeping a distance from the fence a horse should b ok once not thundering past once you are in control of it

The dogs are not a problem in that there is no need to bring them at all now that I know the risks. With regard to staying away from the fence that's not an option as I would have to pass it to get to the fields I would be using. With regard to thundering past, horses are also unpredictable animals and this can't be totally ruled out, riding is by it's nature a risk sport. I won't be using this option now anyway but I do feel educated from the responses I got. I'll be looking for somewhere that's equine only, plenty around.

Riverireland

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

while I agree with the advice given on the thread about bulls being dangerous you've got to use common sense. I take it you would be in a seperate field to the bull with a dividing fence.
How big is the field the bull is in. Is he in a field of 10 or 20 acres with cows or is it a half acre garden on his own. Bulls rarely cross fences of a proper standard unless there's a female in heat in the next field and even then the female is more likely togo to him. OObviously if you are in the next field and you see the bull looking for a way in and like you're aggravating him I'd leave. If he's passing no heed and moving away to the far end of his own big field you're probably fine. Obviously don't let the dogs loose to run into the field with the bull and warn the children not to go in either. If you're used to dealing with horses and having children around then you're probably familiar enough with the sort of approach to take.

The cattle are in various fields of different sizes, none more that 3-4 acres so it's not like they won't notice us. Impossible to explain in detail, the fences are fine, wooden rail type but would be easy to break through if an animal had a mind to do so. not an option for me now anyway. But thanks foe the input.

sandydan

Riverireland wrote: »

The cattle are in various fields of different sizes, none more that 3-4 acres so it's not like they won't notice us. Impossible to explain in detail, the fences are fine, wooden rail type but would be easy to break through if an animal had a mind to do so. not an option for me now anyway. But thanks foe the input.

is it not possible to grow some thorny hedging to provide privacy, , if you have a quite horse that you are familiar with riding past the field where bull is will help get the bull used to passing animals, cow are curious for a while and will take little notice after while. i understood from your post that you were in same field separated by wire only , however there is an onus on herdowner to provide reasonable fencing to control livestock. i presume you have horses to control as well and while it is added expense to you purchase a good mains operated fencer and install wire properly along and top of railing using clearly visible fence wire and earth fence properly, cattle respect fencers if trained to them, is timber railing only divider between the properties, if so is there fence wire running alongside fence on neighbour side, if not, can you ask neighbour to run one along, and do similar on your side. i found when neighbors bull wanted to chat with mine a roll of 3 foot high 6 inch mesh wire along bounds ditch with fence wire on both sides kinda talked them out of it. we used the wide tape fence suitable for horses .there is a difference of number of steel strands in those tape wires, so check when purchasing. i recon if fenced properly with shock in wires that will discourage bulls interest, if possible grow some unpalatable thorny hedge alongside railing to obscure view.hope this suggestion helps