Social Security Cross border workers

keithclancy

Was wondering if anyone had experience of this.

Basically I live in Holland and Work in Germany (I'm Irish)

Under Germany Social Security rules I am legally obliged to have German Health Insurance as I work there .

I have an S1 Form which gives me a Treaty Insurance Policy in the Netherlands, I have lived in the Netherlands for the last 7 years.

Under Dutch Rules it is required to pay the first 360 euros of own risk per person.

In Germany my mandatory Health Insurance is 3 times the cost of a similar Dutch Policy.

Basically this leaves me in the bizarre situation of having to travel over 100 kilometers to avail of healthcare without paying the first 360 euros myself.

Or ... alternatively I could just pay for everything myself and then claim it back later from my German Insurer.

I contacted the EU Helpline and they said I was not being discriminated against because other Dutch working residents also have to pay the first 360 euros.

My point is other Dutch Workers living in the Netherlands are not forced to pay for much more expensive German Health Insurance

So for the moment the S1 Form for me is completely useless, in future I will just pay for everything myself and submit it to my Insurer in Germany.

Anyone else ever have problems regarding this sort of thing ? Other than Taxation of course, which the EU has no remit over :rolleyes:

Jim2007

keithclancy wrote: »

My point is other Dutch Workers living in the Netherlands are not forced to pay for much more expensive German Health Insurance

That is your decision! You are free to move to Germany when ever you like. If a Dutch person did the same thing then they would have to pay too.

keithclancy

Jim2007 wrote: »

That is your decision! You are free to move to Germany when ever you like. If a Dutch person did the same thing then they would have to pay too.

Residents you mean. There is no difference between being Dutch and being A European citizen from a social security perspective

It just means I have to travel 100 km to obtain healthcare under the same conditions as my colleagues, which kind of goes against the whole cross border worker principal

Jim2007

keithclancy wrote: »

It just means I have to travel 100 km to obtain healthcare under the same conditions as my colleagues, which kind of goes against the whole cross border worker principal

YOU have made the decision to live like this and if a Dutch person was to make the same decision, then they would be treated the same way. So there is no discrimination between you and a Dutch citizen, when you both choose the same course of action. If a Dutch citizen was treated differently in the same circumstances then you'd have a case, otherwise not.

And at the same time if a German citizen was to choose to live in The Netherlands, they would be treated exactly the same way as you are, so again there is no discrimination on that side either.

What you want would in fact be discrimination - reside in The Netherlands and avail of their health services without having to pay the first 360 Euros like every other resident!

keithclancy

Jim2007 wrote: »

YOU have made the decision to live like this and if a Dutch person was to make the same decision, then they would be treated the same way. So there is no discrimination between you and a Dutch citizen, when you both choose the same course of action. If a Dutch citizen was treated differently in the same circumstances then you'd have a case, otherwise not.

And at the same time if a German citizen was to choose to live in The Netherlands, they would be treated exactly the same way as you are, so again there is no discrimination on that side either.

What you want would in fact be discrimination - reside in The Netherlands and avail of their health services without having to pay the first 360 Euros like every other resident!

I don't get you ? I pay into the German Social Security system and the bill is just forwarded to my German Insurance anyway.

Why do you keep going on about Dutch Citizens ? This is nothing to do with anything, EU Citizens are treated the same way anyway.

The point is on one hand the Cross Border Worker rules say you shouldn't have to travel if you are sick (e..g. if you want to call in sick to work)

Residents living an working in NL are paying 1200 euros a year for mandatory Health Insurance.
Residents living in NL and working in Germany are paying 3k+ for mandatory health insurance and paying 360 euros own risk on top.

I don't have the option of taking out Dutch Insurance

I find your attitude a bit puzzling, is it not partly the point of the EU to be able to move and work freely without borders ?

The Corinthian

keithclancy wrote: »

I find your attitude a bit puzzling, is it not partly the point of the EU to be able to move and work freely without borders ?

I'd like to live in France but pay UK taxes then.

keithclancy

The Corinthian wrote: »

I'd like to live in France but pay UK taxes then.

If you worked in the UK and lived in France you would

You pay Social Security and Income taxes where you work, not where you live.

oscarBravo

keithclancy wrote: »

If you worked in the UK and lived in France you would

You pay Social Security and Income taxes where you work, not where you live.

Really? My OH did a stint recently where she worked almost entirely in Colorado for a UK company, but paid Irish taxes.

The Corinthian

oscarBravo wrote: »

Really? My OH did a stint recently where she worked almost entirely in Colorado for a UK company, but paid Irish taxes.

I also pay taxes based on residency and not workplace.

keithclancy

oscarBravo wrote: »

Really? My OH did a stint recently where she worked almost entirely in Colorado for a UK company, but paid Irish taxes.

That's called a secondment, I did the same on a Dutch contract in Germany for 2 years.

The Corinthian wrote: »

I also pay taxes based on residency and not workplace.

You can do this if you work less that 185 days in the country abroad.

Although both of the above scenarios don't fit in the cross border worker i.e. commuter.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/work-abroad/cross-border-commuters/index_en.htm

If you work in one EU country but live in another and return there daily, or at least once a week, you count as a cross-border commuter under EU law (sometimes called cross-border or frontier worker).

In everyday life, you are subject to the laws of both countries.

The laws where you work cover:

employment and income taxes;
most social security rights.
The laws where you live cover:

property taxes and most other taxes;
residence formalities.

The Corinthian

keithclancy wrote: »

You can do this if you work less that 185 days in the country abroad.

In fairness, my example isn't really valid as I pay taxes in the Gemeinde I live in, not the one I work in, but both are in the same canton, not to mention country.

keithclancy

The Corinthian wrote: »

In fairness, my example isn't really valid as I pay taxes in the Gemeinde I live in, not the one I work in, but both are in the same canton, not to mention country.

EU rules don apply to EEA Countries such as Switzerland either.

The Corinthian

keithclancy wrote: »

EU rules don apply to EEA Countries such as Switzerland either.

Actually, the vast majority of those rules do - if Switzerland wants to trade with the EU, Switzerland must comply to 99% of the rules. That's why I find talk of sovereignty by eurosceptics so often ridiculous.