Suspect undealt with issue

westernlad4x

If a spouse has a niggling feeling that their partner might have suffered a possibly single isolated incident of abuse which may never have been properly dealt with .. how can this be approached ?

In this instance it may be some other source of anger that has never been confronted but some slightly odd things disclosed which don't explicitly mention abuse but raise a bit of suspicion that inappropriate stuff may have happened in the past.

I realise that this is a very delicate and potentially dynamite area within a loving relationship.
Obviously if abuse never happened in the past raising could potentially harm trust in the relationship.

Keeping this a little vague for now but reaching out for general advice or questions.

Buona Fortuna

Just my 2 cents - I'm sure the great and the good will be along presently.

IMO, you don't. You don't ever mention what you suspect directly.

What you do is create an aptmosphere of absolute total trust between you - small words but a huge deed.

Then if they want to tell you they will.

Merkin

Not to be terse but I think if your partner wants to tell you then they will tell you. This can only come organically and when they feel ready to disclose so I'd wait for them to want to open up about it if there was anything.

Magicmatilda

The main thing that stops people talking about abuse (i am talking about sexual abuse here) is the fear of not being believe. This is a very deep seated fear, far deeper than even most survivors of abuse realise, until they try to tell someone. Often the abuser will have re enforced this by telling them they will not be believed. So it is not a simple case of if they want to tell you they will. It may be a case that they can't.

So what to do, I would recommend that the next time they mention some of the slightly odd things, that would be the time to probe gently a little further. Asking if there is something they want to talk about or just saying that if they ever feel they want to go into more detail you are open to that.

I would not recommend coming right out and asking - were you abused? But you can create an atmosphere of acceptance. If there are things on news, radio, saying things like "its awful that people feel they can't talk about these things for fear of not being believed, especially when that is what the abusers use to manipulate"

Another option is to suggest that they speak to a counsellor about their anger, that may lead to them becoming open to talking about abuse.

If it is affecting your relationship sexually - you could approach it from that angle, asking if anything happened that they want to talk about and that you are open and willing to listen. That you will believe them.

I would recommend reading "the courage to heal" there is a section in their for partners.

Also if a person has been abused in childhood, there is a free counselling service offered by the HSE. It is called the national counselling service and the specialise in dealing with this kind of trauma, naturally there are waiting lists but you contact directly and they will see you once a spot comes up. The details can be found on google.

westernlad4x

All very good advice. Thanks !

It is difficult when one has a slight suspicion but when there is plenty of scope for it being a misunderstanding and false hunch.
I agree that raising the suspicion directly is counterproductive and foolhardy.

In this case it is hard to imagine the amount of trust betrayal that could have happened - if (and a very big 'if') it did happen.
Without going into details and I realise there can be triggers when even writing this on forums :
The initial not quite right thing stems from a candid disclosure by my partner that she came to know a rather gratuitous detail about post-coital male physiology from her most trusted guardian.
It was a candid remark made in a particular context many years ago.
It could have been an innocent but clumsily delivered chat about the birds and the bees that strayed accidentally into too much detail ... or it could be more.

Other very subtle hints have suggested that there *might* be more to it.
It is so hard for a partner who sees someone finding intimacy difficult - sees hints of stuff like this but cannot act on them.
You love your partner but you can only be supportive to the extent of what you are let to know.

Penny Tration

I wouldn't ask a partner about it.

I wasn't abused as a child, but was raped as a teenager. Most of my partners after, I never told, even though it affected me badly. If one of them had probed, I'd have freaked out.

My current partner knows and is very sensitive about my feelings as a result. However, it took me quite a wwhile to tell him. When I told him, he told me he had already figured it out.

The thing I respected the most was that, although he realised from things I had said or done, he never probed. He waited til I chose to tell him.

It's such a deeply painful, personal thing. You don't know what kind of memories you could make the person relive if you ask about it.

Just make the person aware that you're there to support them, and let them come to you in their own time.

Magicmatilda

Could you ask her westernlad?

I know you were on here recently about the lack of intimacy so could you say to her that you were thinking about the problems and that you remembered her comment years ago and you are wondering how she knew that?

Why did you not ask years ago when she said it?

The thing is if a child said they knew whatever this was, immediately you would ask how they knew. You wouldn't start debating whether or not you should ask how they knew or worrying about how they would react, you would say - "how do you know that?". So I don't see why you should not ask your wife in a gentle and compassionate manner.

Really you should be able to have open and honest conversations with your wife about anything. Although I understand how difficult it is to come to terms with this and most abuse in Ireland was/is by people known to the child so there is always a massive breach of trust. That is why it is so hard to come to terms with and so hard to accept yourself.

Also if it wasn't anything then isn't it better to have your own mind set straight than be wondering if suc and such carried out these heinious things?

westernlad4x

Magicmatilda wrote: »

Could you ask her westernlad?

I know you were on here recently about the lack of intimacy so could you say to her that you were thinking about the problems and that you remembered her comment years ago and you are wondering how she knew that?

Why did you not ask years ago when she said it?

The thing is if a child said they knew whatever this was, immediately you would ask how they knew. You wouldn't start debating whether or not you should ask how they knew or worrying about how they would react, you would say - "how do you know that?". So I don't see why you should not ask your wife in a gentle and compassionate manner.

Really you should be able to have open and honest conversations with your wife about anything. Although I understand how difficult it is to come to terms with this and most abuse in Ireland was/is by people known to the child so there is always a massive breach of trust. That is why it is so hard to come to terms with and so hard to accept yourself.

Ta magicMatilda.

I did ask at the time but I didn't probe exhaustively, obviously.
The surprise for me was that she knew this (a fact irrelevant to general sex education regarding a flow which generally occurs in male refractory period) via her parent and not through just more general sexual awareness or curiosity.
I could be making far too much of this, I know.

Her parents are very conservative so it just didn't gel for me and frankly creeped me out a little then.
I chose, however to interpret it in the kindest way as something insignificant at the time.

The parent concerned is still alive and my partner is very invested in them .. probably more so than many.
So, it seems a bit incongruous that anything inappropriate may have happened.
The parent also has aired strident views in front of me about false memories when discussing current affairs and that kinda raised my hackles.

I know what you mean about trying to enquire in a more subtle way using our marital issues as a context.

macplato

OP, you are going about this completely the wrong way. Your wife was interested in sex and intimacy for the first few years of your marriage, which means that the issue lies not with her, but with your relationship. Which also means that you are part of the problem, somehow you are co-creating the situation.

Your fixation with your wife's potential issues is borderline creepy. I guarantee you - she senses that, and it further puts her off being intimate with you. Take your eyes off her, and put it on you and your end of the relationship. Stop analysing her, it's not going to get you anywhere, it certainly isn't going to bring sex and intimacy back into your life, so stop obsessing about it.

The only thing that can potentially help resolve the issue of intimacy, is openness and honesty, but as long as your wife feels that you assign all the blame to her, you can be damn sure she is not going to open up to you.

westernlad4x

macplato wrote: »

OP, you are going about this completely the wrong way. Your wife was interested in sex and intimacy for the first few years of your marriage, which means that the issue lies not with her, but with your relationship. Which also means that you are part of the problem, somehow you are co-creating the situation.

Your fixation with your wife's potential issues is borderline creepy. I guarantee you - she senses that, and it further puts her off being intimate with you. Take your eyes off her, and put it on you and your end of the relationship. Stop analysing her, it's not going to get you anywhere, it certainly isn't going to bring sex and intimacy back into your life, so stop obsessing about it.

The only thing that can potentially help resolve the issue of intimacy, is openness and honesty, but as long as your wife feels that you assign all the blame to her, you can be damn sure she is not going to open up to you.

I appreciate this frank feedback macplato.
I am trying to avoid fixation on potential issues.
I had asked about us going to relationship counselling and she refused.
In a way I was end of my tether.

I totally take on board that I should raise any suspicions directly with her (from other posters here).
As honest as I can be there may be something troubling her outside of me.
She tells me she loves me.
I want to be available and communicate with her.
She closed intimate conversation a long while ago.

Magicmatilda

westernlad4x wrote: »

The parent concerned is still alive and my partner is very invested in them .. probably more so than many.
So, it seems a bit incongruous that anything inappropriate may have happened.

QUOTE]

Not really as part of a grooming relationship the child is manipulated into a sense of having a special relationship with the abuser. This can continue into adulthood when the abused has not accepted or in some cases cannot remember fully what happened. The manipulation and the power of that special relationship cannot be under estimated, especially if that is the only place where the child got "love".

None of this may be relevent to your wife. Nothing may have happened but equally it may. I once suspected that a friend was abused from things they said but it turned out they were transsexual, so we can easily draw the wrong conclusion. It would appear that she however does not want to face it IF it did happen. It is exceptionally difficult to face because it means pulling apart the fabric of your relationships and realising that someone who you thought loved you was actually abusing you. That is seriousley painful.

Now as a result you are in a marraige where there is no intimacy and your wife is refusing to face that also. You have two choices, stay with the status quo accepting that she will never changes or leave. It really is that simple. You cannot fix your relationship alone and it seems she does not want to fix it, for whatever reasons.

macplato

westernlad4x wrote: »

I appreciate this frank feedback macplato.
I am trying to avoid fixation on potential issues.
I had asked about us going to relationship counselling and she refused.
In a way I was end of my tether.

I totally take on board that I should raise any suspicions directly with her (from other posters here).
As honest as I can be there may be something troubling her outside of me.
She tells me she loves me.
I want to be available and communicate with her.
She closed intimate conversation a long while ago.

I can only imagine how painful and frustrating this is for you, westernlad, and I feel for you. The thing is, you are not helping yourself here, at all. Somehow you are co-creating the issues with sex and intimacy in your marriage, and the only way to even have a hope of a better marriage, is for you to heal or fix your end of the problem/dysfunction.

Again, I can imagine how frustrated you must feel, when your wife refuses to talk to you or go to counseling with you. Even if you accept that you may be contributing to creating the problem, unless your wife tells you what bothers her, you remain clueless. I'm not saying what you need to do is easy, but I am saying, with a 100% certainty, that if you continue to analyse your wife's past, her upbringing, her issues, the situation is not going to get better.

Your focus on your wife, and your obsession with her (real or imagined) issues is a defense mechanism - it protects you from feeling all the pain and frustration, loneliness and lack of control over your own life. You need to allow yourself to feel that pain and helplessness over the situation, and focus on taking care of yourself in the face of all this frustration. That will create a healthy emotional separation between you and your wife, and it may (often does) inspire her to tune back into the intimacy you once shared.

westernlad4x

I totally take on board the dangers of over-analysing.
It is more a symptom of the fact that communication on a particular level has unfortunately broken down between myself and my wife.

However, separate to that.. as a good husband.. I still do need to be aware of how to supportively deal with my wife *if* there is something from the past bothering her.

macplato

westernlad4x wrote: »

I totally take on board the dangers of over-analysing.
It is more a symptom of the fact that communication on a particular level has unfortunately broken down between myself and my wife.

However, separate to that.. as a good husband.. I still do need to be aware of how to supportively deal with my wife *if* there is something from the past bothering her.

*If*, as you said, there is something in her past bothering her, you need to wait for her to tell you about it. Until she chooses to share such information with you, it's her business only. By trying to figure it out, you are invading your wife's emotional space, and she senses it! She really does, I guarantee you this. This kind of invasion, combined with blame and your apparent neediness, is hugely unattractive. You can put whatever spin on it in your head you want, you can justify what you're doing by seeing yourself as a good husband, but that won't change the fact, that on a very real level, you are actively turning you wife off sex with you!

Remember, you once had a satisfying sexual, intimate relationship with your wife, which means that whatever causes lack of sex and intimacy in your relationship now, didn't come from early trauma or conservative upbringing. The source of the problem, whatever it is, came from within the relationship.

westernlad4x

macplato wrote: »

Remember, you once had a satisfying sexual, intimate relationship with your wife, which means that whatever causes lack of sex and intimacy in your relationship now, didn't come from early trauma or conservative upbringing. The source of the problem, whatever it is, came from within the relationship.

With respect.. you cannot say that definitively.
Neither can I.

I am very open to the fact that my actions,deeds and even thought processes could have and continue to have an effect on the relationship.
However, I also have to be open to the fact that marriages and the intimacy that goes with them can be fully functional and suddenly fail for a *variety* of reasons.
One well documented reason is triggers which do not necessarily occur at the very outset of marriage or sexual partnership.
In fact there is a body of research which shows that this actually can ironically occur just at the point when trust with the non-abusive partner has strengthened.
The rationale is sadly that the abused partner has maladaptive associations between giver of trust and ensuing abuse.
There is at least one poster here who I believe will corroborate that without it getting conflated with my personal issues in marriage.

I am certainly not trying to fit observations to every theory going.. I am just keeping an open mind.
I totally get what you are saying about over-analysis, etc and how that can negatively impact on the relationship.
However , I think you (with all good intentions) are putting my relationship under a microscope with only partial details.
My question here was how to be prepared to deal with possible history of abuse.
I am well able to take that advice separately and figure out how to apply it in the bigger scheme of our relationship troubles.