Slaying the badger - on itv4 tonight at 8

pab01

Title says it all, ITV4 showing 'Greg Lemond - Slay the Badger' tonight (Thursday) at 8pm. I'm sure some of you may be interested in watching.

simonrooneyzaga

saw this recently - unbelievable watch.

StickyMcGinty

Been on a bit of a 30 for 30 binge recently but missed this one, cheers!

Fans of the ESPN series should check out 9.79* too, quality documentary

pelevin

Just watched most of it and have watched it previously so I'll use this to try & give some thoughts or feelings I have on it. Of course I enjoyed it very much but there's very much an angle or slant pushing the viewer to a desired response, & I'd say that slant is Good Guy vs Bad Guy with Hinault obviously as the Baddie. I'd guess I have a natural resistance to being pushed to a desired emotional 'correct' response, & this may be colouring my reaction but though I wouldn't at all say I dislike Lemond, personally I find Hinault the more attractive personality. All it is is a bloody bike race but Lemond talks of it & seemed to experience it as some epic neurotic experience, with much more trauma than joy attached, and apparently without much changed reaction after all this time. This seems to be his style as a cyclist too with Paul Koechli describing him as someone who would never attack, always nervous of implications of actions whereas Hinault a kind of polar opposite, daring to the nth degree even at the expense of himself when his legs may not have been up to his exploits - such as solo-attacking from way out whilst already in Yellow. Hinault seems to have a far healthier attitude in that you give it your absolute all - but that doesn't mean it's anything more than a bike race.

On that front the old US sports journalist, Sam Abt(?) I found very irritating - a 70something year old man looking like he's about to cry over some beautiful moment in a bike race 40 years ago spoilt by Hinault's expressed wish to win in interview afterwards. Grow up ffs.
Also on the angle of Good Guy Bad Guy that I dislike being pushed towards - for example the captions referring naturally enough to Lemond by name but always to Hinault as The Badger, using the nickname to dehumanise him as some ugly caricature to be defeated.

On that point too, even if as seems fair Hinault was trying too hard to win & so breaking his word . . . how the hell could an Hinault or Merckx be that kind of person with those achievements unless winning was in their DNA. They should never be riding to help someone else win a Grand Tour if in the shape to do so themselves. It's a kind of betraying of their inner truth, and so even if Hinault did mean it fully when he said he'd ride to help Lemond, in the heat of the moment the sportsman took over.

Oh and Hinault looked ultra-cool.

Bambaata

Thanks for the heads up, great watch!

macnab

As the quote goes "Cycling is an individual sport practiced by teams"
Hinault was very much an individual type of cyclist while Lemond was a team player, a wide eyed innocent ripe for the picking.
I met Greg Lemond at the HADD charity cycle and I really liked him. I admired the fact that a person of his status took the time to support a comparatively insignificant event. Having watched this film tonight I doubt Hinault does anything unless it is of benefit to him.

ZiabR

Missed this but going to try and get it, sounds like a great watch.

pelevin

macnab wrote: »

As the quote goes "Cycling is an individual sport practiced by teams"
Hinault was very much an individual type of cyclist while Lemond was a team player, a wide eyed innocent ripe for the picking.
I met Greg Lemond at the HADD charity cycle and I really liked him. I admired the fact that a person of his status took the time to support a comparatively insignificant event. Having watched this film tonight I doubt Hinault does anything unless it is of benefit to him.

Lemond by all accounts & how he comes across is a very genuine & likeable person. However he was also known as a complainer & a dull cyclist in terms of aggression. Cycling is a sport & tobh I don't particularly see where who is the most humble, gentle person etc comes into it. Lemond seemed to irritate Koechli as a cautious cyclist who would never attack - though maybe that's a bit unfair - & as a spectator that's what we see, the performance as opposed to how nice the person is. Hinault was an ultra-attacking cyclist & great to watch. Other cyclists I've seen talking about him seemed to like & admire him hugely, such as Fignon & Hampsten - very different to the Baddie role he has to take in this programme, which of course satisfies a human need or desire for such easy emotional dichotomies.

But to be such a great champion means being content to just hand over a TdF victory just couldn't be part of his DNA. A guy who won Liege Baston Liege in freezing, very snowy conditions, with most of the field abandoning, attacking on his own from 80 kms out & winning by 9 mins 24 seconds, suffering frostbite in the process without feeling in one finger ever since. That's not an ordinary kind of man.

Good piece on it here: http://www.velominati.com/nostalgia/guest-article-bernard-hinaults-1980-liege-bastogne-liege/

laraghrider

Have to say, for 52 I thought Andy Hampsten looked fantastic. Great documentary although I was surprised by Greg reaction when both were talking to the interviewer and BH said the tour isn't over yet. I've no idea (nor does anyone) what was said while hand in hand at the top of AdH but Greg was a professional and he should know one thing. It's not over until you've crossed the finish line as he so spectacularly found out in '89. BH was right, what if Greg had a crash (which he did) and it forced him to withdraw etc...

pelevin

Hampsten looks a Dorian Gray character all right. One thing to add though to the notion earlier expressed of Lemond the selfless innocent. How selfless & innocent was he when an American teammate was ahead in the last km of the World Championships of 1982, & Lemond was the one to bridge the gap to him in the last km, with the Italian Saroni going on Lemond's wheel & winning easily from there? As a betrayal how does that compare? Boyer may not have won anyway but it was pretty bad a teammate ensuring he didn't, & playing leadout man for the biggest threat.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjZnpXZ9MP4

07Lapierre

logik wrote: »

Missed this but going to try and get it, sounds like a great watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbOq7X88R8k

smurphy29

Great film.

For me it's not so much the good against the bad, more the neurotic against the charismatic. Lemond is edgy and anxious the whole time, while Hinault slurps Heineken in the post-race interview and looks thoroughly relaxed even when engaged in a kind of backstabbing ritual. Also, Hinault looks incredible on the bike while Lemond is wearing an appallingly dated visor.

It seems somehow appropriate that all these years later, in the contemporary interviews, Lemond has to wear a silly looking chest brace and have his wife finish his sentences for him, while Hinault sits in a cool French cafe with an expensive bottle of wine, still looking fantastic and still with the same French diffidence all these years later.

The other thing it brought home was just how much more chaotic and exciting bike racing was back then. Attacking on the penultimate climb while wearing the yellow jersey?! Could you imagine The Stem-Watcher (or indeed any of them, to be fair) doing that nowadays?!

paddy no 11

Yeah grand tours being raced like one day races just great spectacles. Get rid of race radios now.

Lemond definitely comes off worse, hinault may have been out for himself but you got to appreciate the way he rode the race and paid tribute to the race in doing so. Lemond was just too innocent/sensitive if not a little paranoid.

bwalsh1983

Koechli is one freaky dude.

Thats the beauty of the rivalry they had though, that they ARE polar opposites.

Iranoutofideas

I thought the bit about the threat his food might be tampered with or bike sabotaged by his own team a bit bizarre

bwalsh1983

The closest I've seen to that kind of racing in modern times would be Shleck/leopards team and ride at the Galibier in 2011, Contadors ride on stage 17 in the 2012 Vuelta and Quintanas race winning move/red flag descent/controversy this year.

The finish on Wednesdays Vuelta stage was fantastic but we had to watch a rather mundane day untill the final 7-8 km. The days we remember are the ones mentioned above...

MPFG

I really like LeMond ...an affable good guy if a little naive
But you have to admire & respect Hinault more....He was/is an incredibly strong individual....I imagine if the roles were reversed he wuld have not complained or whined...he would have ridden up to LeMond and socked him one ......simple as that


In the stages they showed in the film we saw the lead riders like LeMond, Hinault, Roche, Millar all riding by themselves from the 2nd last or third last climb ...no team mates anywhere .....No one was compalining about where their super domes were ??? How did they do that and not be knackered...Did they cycle the stages slower ??? Are MTF stages alot faster now that the top guys are sheledered till last 2km

Second observation is how many more people were out supporting the Tour than in recent years and given it was 30 years ago ...the population would have been alot less

laraghrider

Well racing now is a lot more tactical. Back then it was to an extent man against man even if you are in a "team" setting. Truth be told it was like this well into the 90's. Lets not forget Bjarne -v- Jan were "teammates". As much as I hate to credit him for things but for all the crap Lance did bring the sport on in many areas. He was the main driver of the tactical controlled racing we see now and the leader always being sheltered. Racing now is so much more tactical than it used to be for good and for bad. Many riders now have lost the racers brain as they almost no longer require it it has become that tactically planned before a stage. There really are very few real racers in the sport today. Part of the reason why people are mourning Jenies retirement. A true balls out racer.