Road improvement scheme

frankie2shoes

My neighbours received a letter from Callan council informing us of the oportunity to have the road on our lane resurfaced. The cost will be 39000 of which the 5 houses on the lane must pay 10000! the letter arrived 7 days before the payment was due! We were told if we didn't pay in full the road would not be resurfaced and it could be 10 years before they get back to us. We recieved nothing in writing as to when the works were to begin or end or any written scope of the works. When asked if we could see the drawings we were told "there are no drawings- we don't need drawings". This road improvement will include drainage so I'm unsure how they'll achieve this without some sort of technical drawing to assist them. No fixed date was set for final payment until today when I was told we need to give them the full amount by friday!
is this normal?
If I was having work done at my house the contractor would not recieve final payment until I was happy with the job. When I pointed this out to the gentleman from the council he said "that's not how we work we want the total amount by friday or the road will not be done"
Can anybody enlighten me on this bizarre arrangement?
thanks
Fran

1984baby

Are you sure this is actually from Kilkenny County Council?? - it sounds like a scam.

Captain Havoc

1984baby wrote: »

Are you sure this is actually from Kilkenny County Council?? - it sounds like a scam.

Have to agree with that

foxcoverteddy

I believe the lads are correct in that it is a well contrived scam, though have any of the neighbours paid up?
The first stop must be the council offices in Callan and if not Kilkenny, though somewhat tongue in cheek I am concerned that perhaps the council has adopted a high and mighty attitude as seen in the CAS dispute and the pedestrian bridge and lately the service centre at paulstown.
Though I am certain the integrity of the council is such that this is a scam, but if it is not, ah what next.

brianblaze

If you could take a pic of what you got and send it to me I can get that checked for you!

frankie2shoes

That's what I thought too!! The whole thing seems very dodgey.
I contacted the Callan area office today and it seems legit! Have arranged to meet the guy I was talking to tomorrow to clarify the whole thing onsite and see exactly what it is they're planning to do. It seems bizarre that the council would act in such a haphazard manner that's the civil service for you. I have asked them to email me the letter that was received by one of my neighbours about this and will share the contents here when I receive it. This letter was not sent to all residents btw, only to one or two people.

frankie2shoes

I received a copy of the original and only written correspondence recieved from the council. A number of years ago an ex resident signed up to the CIR scheme for our lane. This basically is a scheme whereby the council pays x amount for the road improvement but the residents also pay a percentage.
Apparently, unbeknownst to anybody else, the council offered to do the road two years ago but the (now) ex resident said no. Under the scheme you are allowed to delay the works once.
Which brings us to the letter dated 28/7/14 requesting all monies be paid by 15/8/14 or else our road project will be deleted from the scheme.
the residents are expected to pay over 9000 euro between us to get this done. All money upfront with no written proposal as to what is to be done or a schedule of works. When asked when it would be done we were told before the end of october.
Can anybody confirm that this is normal council proceedure?
It all seems a little hapahazard, especially asking people to come up with nearly 2000 euro in 2 weeks.
We have delayed them til now but I was told verbally yesterday that I have until tomorrow to pay. Again nothing in writing!!!!!!

Spocker

The CIR scheme has some detail in section 4.8 of this doc: http://www.kilkennycoco.ie/eng/Services/Roads/Roads_General/Kilkenny_Roadworks_Scheme_2013.pdf

frankie2shoes

I think we're being asked for about 25% of the cost

Rantan

frankie2shoes wrote: »

I received a copy of the original and only written correspondence recieved from the council. A number of years ago an ex resident signed up to the CIR scheme for our lane. This basically is a scheme whereby the council pays x amount for the road improvement but the residents also pay a percentage.
Apparently, unbeknownst to anybody else, the council offered to do the road two years ago but the (now) ex resident said no. Under the scheme you are allowed to delay the works once.
Which brings us to the letter dated 28/7/14 requesting all monies be paid by 15/8/14 or else our road project will be deleted from the scheme.
the residents are expected to pay over 9000 euro between us to get this done. All money upfront with no written proposal as to what is to be done or a schedule of works. When asked when it would be done we were told before the end of october.
Can anybody confirm that this is normal council proceedure?
It all seems a little hapahazard, especially asking people to come up with nearly 2000 euro in 2 weeks.
We have delayed them til now but I was told verbally yesterday that I have until tomorrow to pay. Again nothing in writing!!!!!!

what a joke, I have worked for civil eng contractors all my life on the commercial side of things...I would no more commit to an order for anything without some form of scope, BOQ etc...if they have a total cost in mind, somebody obviously did a take off or estimate so they have a breakdown somewhere,,,I'd be escalating your response to a senior engineer, don't let them fob you off..expecting you to come up with 2k for something you were not aware of or even party to is not on..,for something like this they should give min 6 months notice...oh but wait ,,,,that would require planning..this is proabably one of those "blow the remains of the local budgets before the end of the year" scenarios

frankie2shoes

Rantan wrote: »

what a joke, I have worked for civil eng contractors all my life on the commercial side of things...I would no more commit to an order for anything without some form of scope, BOQ etc...if they have a total cost in mind, somebody obviously did a take off or estimate so they have a breakdown somewhere,,,I'd be escalating your response to a senior engineer, don't let them fob you off..expecting you to come up with 2k for something you were not aware of or even party to is not on..,for something like this they should give min 6 months notice...oh but wait ,,,,that would require planning..this is proabably one of those "blow the remains of the local budgets before the end of the year" scenarios

Funny you should say that! The guy I was talking to did mention that if they didn't do it before christmas that they'd lose the funding. Also said that the "plant" would be closing for the winter at the end of october so they'd be doing it before then. What this "plant" might be is beyond me. Can't imagine tarmacadam plants closing for the winter!!

Rantan

frankie2shoes wrote: »

Funny you should say that! The guy I was talking to did mention that if they didn't do it before christmas that they'd lose the funding. Also said that the "plant" would be closing for the winter at the end of october so they'd be doing it before then. What this "plant" might be is beyond me. Can't imagine tarmacadam plants closing for the winter!!

sorry only seeing your response now - any resolution since?
...this sounds very much like the council doing wwhat suit them best and not with any concern for you or your neighbours. Sorry - cant remember if you said in earlier posts - what state is the road - does it readlly need to be done?

If ye don't do it now and it gets worse you may need to spend more to fix it later,,,, is it something that you might just should suck up(if you can push it) rather than ignoring?

frankie2shoes

after meeting with the council in Callan we decided to go ahead with it. I am not happy with the way it was handled but that's the council for ya!!!
anyhoo, the road has been prepped and will be completed on thursday of this week so hopefully won't need attention for some years as a lot of the drainage issues appear to have been addressed.
lets hope the workmanship is more professional than their office management.....

Rantan

good result in the end,,,,hopefully..

Cabaal

Just curious where is this work taking place?, noticed a tarmac removal machine on the windgap road yesterday evening.
It seems crazy that you are paying anything towards the road being maintained...assuming its a public road?

frankie2shoes

Its all finished now. road was first prepped for 2 days and then a day and a half of laying and then a top coat applied. Its a pretty good job from my laymans eye! As I said, really badly handled by the council and shocking that the residents had to contribute nearly 10k of the 45k cost of the job (according to lad from council). But its done now and it makes the drive to my house far less of a bone shaker.
I really had a problem with the idea of having to pay for a road considering the amount of road tax I pay, but they simply wouldnt have done it otherwise......

PaulKK

frankie2shoes wrote: »

I really had a problem with the idea of having to pay for a road considering the amount of road tax I pay, but they simply wouldnt have done it otherwise......

I agree that you shouldn't have to pay to get the road done, but you do not pay "road tax" you pay motor tax, and this tax money does not go directly in to a fund for roads.

frankie2shoes

road tax, motor tax. its still tax that by its very name should be for road maintenance. I know it doesn't go into a separate pot just for roads but this fact does not make it less palatable to pay again for basic infrastructure.......

PaulKK

frankie2shoes wrote: »

road tax, motor tax. its still tax that by its very name should be for road maintenance. I know it doesn't go into a separate pot just for roads but this fact does not make it less palatable to pay again for basic infrastructure.......

Should property tax only pay for houses or tax on cigarettes only pay for healthcare? It doesn't and that's why its not called road tax for cars. I agree with you though. We pay enough tax without funding roads additionally ourselves.

hi5

The County Council don't normally charge to maintain the road outside your house.
Are you sure its not part of the planning development contribution which may not have been paid?

http://www.kilkennycoco.ie/resources/eng/Services/Planning/Development%20Contribution%20Brochure%202008%20-%202014.pdf