Farsalinos Publishes Results of E-Liquid Study

Samba

Interesting findings concerning the presence of diacetyl and acetyl propionyl from random samples.

It seems it's not that straight forward if you're hell bent on avoiding the likes of diacetyl etc. Apparently known diacteyl substitutes which are used can naturally break down into diacteyl (can anyone shed some light on this or confirm this is true?).

I honestly can't quantify the risk but I feel vapers should be aware of the potential risks. What kills me is that EU regulation has done nothing to address the risks associated with the presence of unsafe levels of these chemicals in certain brands/flavors.

Personally I would prefer to avoid such chemicals entirely but it's worth noting that levels (and I assume risk) generally pales in comparison to levels present in cigarettes.

EDIT

He just posted up his overall thoughts on the results on his own site - LINK

jsabina

It is an interesting study.
I would like to avoid them, even if the study says that the concentration is much less than normal cigarettes.
But if we can be safer, why not?
What I've read is that they are more in sweet liquids.
It would be good to have serious analysis for the liquids and choose based on that.

rickyjb

Liquid manufacturers should be forced to declare diacetyl levels on the packaging, I'd rather know what I was inhaling on a daily basis even if the risk is quite low.

Samba

jsabina wrote: »

It would be good to have serious analysis for the liquids and choose based on that.

In theory, absolutely, but ignorance is a big problem (especially for new companies). You also have to consider that currently there's no regulation to enforce this. If you were a start up company creating juice with a limited budget, would you jump through these hoops if it wasn't necessary by law?

Those with a good business ethic and who value their customers health would, but I imagine quite a few simply wouldn't bother.

I do fear that these findings will give the powers that be a stronger voice to push for a blanket ban on flavoring.

rickyjb wrote: »

Liquid manufacturers should be forced to declare diacetyl levels on the packaging, I'd rather know what I was inhaling on a daily basis even if the risk is quite low.

The TPD vaguely covers this insofar as ingredients now have to be listed on bottles, but you'd probably need the space on a 1 litre bottle to cover the long list of chemicals used to create simple fruit flavors.

If anyone is interested in more information there's a few threads currently being discussed on ECF and on reddit (search for diacteyl). There's a lot of noise and lots of pages, some of the information is good but at the end of the day most of it is just peoples opinions and not scientific fact, so bear that in mind before you consider binning all your juice.

Thank god we have good people like Doc Farsalinos on our side, a true legend imho.


Until more information comes to light on the vast list of chemicals used in various flavourings (and the potential risks they pose) I'm going to stick to unflavoured VG from here on in. I've made this decision because I don't have the luxury of accepting minimal risk due to a history of bronchitis in my family. I'm probably being overly conservative taking this route but until new sets of lungs are freely available to buy, it's a risk I can't accept.

was.deevey

Liquid manufacturers should be forced to declare diacetyl levels on the packaging

One of the troubling factors is that the chemical is only "created" after burning though which I'm sure would require a very specialized testing enviornment to confirm its existance after release which would be outside the realms of expense for the majority of mom and pops ejuice makers to test for.

Even the manufacturers that do declare that there is no diacetyl are not excatly lying (purposely) and most likely had no clue the toxin was being released during burntime - a bit like burnt toast creating Benzopyrene. Of course the difference is that you are not suppose to burn toast in the first place.

Do Remember that Regular Ciggies contain 10x MORE Diacetyl than even the worst offending e-juice though.

Samba

was.deevey wrote: »

One of the troubling factors is that the chemical is only "created" after burning though which I'm sure would require a very specialized testing enviornment to confirm its existance after release which would be outside the realms of expense for the majority of mom and pops ejuice makers to test for.

Even the manufacturers that do declare that there is no diacetyl are not excatly lying (purposely) and most likely had no clue the toxin was being released during burntime - a bit like burnt toast creating Benzopyrene. Of course the difference is that you are not suppose to burn toast in the first place.

Do Remember that Regular Ciggies contain 10x MORE Diacetyl than even the worst offending e-juice though.

Interesting post! But it has me even more confused now, heh. I can only go on what I read across various sources, but it was my understanding that it's also used as a flavouring additive?

Source


How do you think the likes of capella are now making the claim that they've removed all diacteyl from their flavourings for instance? Is it a case they know which chemicals will cause it to form when it's heated? I'm really curious to know more about it, you'll have to excuse my ignorance, chemistry is not my strong point. Primarily they're a flavouring company so I can't imagine they've tested them out with e-cigs or anything, though I'm sure they could heat flavourings to a specific temperature.

I know it can form during the process of brewing, would it be possible for it to form when a juice is steeping?

was.deevey

Interesting post! But it has me even more confused now, heh. I can only go on what I read across various sources, but it was my understanding that it's also used as a flavouring additive?

Its primary use is as Butter or Butterscotch Flavor, especially in Microwave popcorn industry where there has been uproar and many Damages awards to both consumers and workers. (hence the term popcorn lung).

I guess its probably to be used in all manner of Apple Pie, Custard, Butterscotch Gummie type flavorings and probably many sweet tobacco ones as well, most probably in tiny amounts, but you are right it is a little worrying regardless, both the "real deal" and some substitutes, it seems can both cause Lung Problems in the long term (however still not a patch on real fags quantities).

I'm sure they could heat flavourings to a specific temperature.

I'm sure they could now as they know what they are looking for, but we don't know the cost of these tests either remember and it may well be beyond the realms of possibility for a manufacturer financially to test for something they didnt add in the first place.

It probably was not something that would have even been looked for before, a lil like a regular blood test is unlikely to show a specific exotic poison.