would you hide persecuted people?

FullblownRose · 01-09-2014 2:15pm #1

If it meant putting your family and yourself at risk, do you think you would turn people away and leave them to their fate? I am asking because I have been re-reading Anne Frank's diary.

The same question might apply if you becae aware of a damaging secret with widespread implications for others. If you were to become a ''whistleblower', you might also become a target for the people you exposed/ undermined.

How would you decide what the best thing to do is? How does anyone know until the time comes?

Do you think anyone knows what they would do until they find themselves in that situation?

01-09-2014 2:18pm

I'd like to think I would, but I'm not sure I'm that courageous. I'd want to be, even if I couldn't be.

It's probably context specific and dependant on how personally the issue affects you. We'd all like to think of ourselves as altruistic and moral, but it's tempered by pragmatism and fear as well.

Iwasfrozen · 01-09-2014 2:19pm

I would like to say yes. But realistically like most Germans during the holocaust I'd be too scared to help. It is selfish but I think most people think of their own families first.

Smidge · 01-09-2014 2:20pm

I've been feeling a bit persecuted lately. I wish someone would hide me.

The One Doctor · 01-09-2014 2:22pm

It depends. If they were being persecuted for raping children, definitely not. If they were persecuted for being Israeli, probably not. If they were persecuted for being Jewish, I might consider it.

The Purveyor of Truth · 01-09-2014 2:23pm

I used to get videos in Xtra-vision for a mate of mine who owed them a small fortune in fines for not rewinding video tapes. Sometimes you have to be there for people.

Gatling · 01-09-2014 2:26pm

Too many sob stories in the last 15 years involving failed faux asylum seekers have put off the whole persecution thing as a whole ,

It's only when I see the likes of the current situation in Iraq and Ukraine that's makes me say I'd love to get out there and help

anncoates · 01-09-2014 2:28pm

Only at a metered rate.

RedemptionZ · 01-09-2014 2:30pm

The One Doctor wrote: »

It depends. If they were being persecuted for raping children, definitely not. If they were persecuted for being Israeli, probably not. If they were persecuted for being Jewish, I might consider it.

FullblownRose · 01-09-2014 2:31pm

RedemptionZ wrote: »

I know

Czarcasm · 01-09-2014 2:32pm

FullblownRose wrote: »

How would you decide what the best thing to do is? How does anyone know until the time comes?

The easiest way to decide is whether or not the person is actually worth protecting for what they've done. Having been in that situation a couple of times, some people I've protected at greater risk to myself (people who wouldn't have committed crimes) and some people I've just straight out told the Gardai the truth when they came to interview me.

Do you think anyone knows what they would do until they find themselves in that situation?

I never know what to do initially in any of these situations as each situation is different, and some situations are an easy call to make, some are just straight out too risky, and some are just wrong.

Tiddlypeeps · 01-09-2014 2:39pm

I probably wouldn't go out of my way to find people to help, but if they showed up at my door looking for help and they were facing anything like what the Jew's of WW2 Germany were facing then I don't believe I'd be able to turn them away.

wes · 01-09-2014 2:46pm

I like to think I would have the balls to do so, but until I am faced with such a situation, I have no way of knowing. I suppose it would come down, to whether I think I could pull it off or not.

AnonoBoy · 01-09-2014 2:48pm

I hid a load of culchies out in my back shed for six months during the Great Culchie Purge of '94.

It cost me a fortune in hang sangwiches and packages of King Tayto but I did it because I'm a good man and because I needed someone to do my gardening for me.

FullblownRose · 01-09-2014 2:49pm

I think when people are faced with on the spot choices like that, possibly without full knowledge of the consequences of either decision, it calls for some very fast thinking and gut instinct probably comes into play, too.

ScumLord · 01-09-2014 2:53pm

Against the Irish government and for the right person (someone I knew) I would hide people. What's the worst that the Irish government could do to you for it?

Against something like the Nazi's probably not.

signostic · 01-09-2014 2:56pm

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

I probably wouldn't go out of my way to find people to help, but if they showed up at my door looking for help and they were facing anything like what the Jew's of WW2 Germany were facing then I don't believe I'd be able to turn them away.

The majority of the German population believed the Nazi propaganda and would have immediately reported someone seeking help. A small proportion may have been willing to help and were scared to do so while only a minority helped irrespective of the consequences.

The Peanut · 01-09-2014 2:57pm

Mods crash at my gaff on a daily basis.

FullblownRose · 01-09-2014 2:57pm

ScumLord wrote: »

Against the Irish government and for the right person (someone I knew) I would hide people. What's the worst that the Irish government could do to you for it?

Against something like the Nazi's probably not.

If you had the full knowledge of what would happen if the SS came calling, or the Vichy or whoever, it would be petrifying. It wasn't only if you *hid* someone, of course! So many people did small things at the time knowing those small actions came with ridiculously big risks. Small kindnesses could have caused a lot of trouble.

Jesus Wept · 01-09-2014 2:58pm

Only if they were hot.

Export · 01-09-2014 3:00pm

I would, if it meant no threat to the rest of my family, just to myself. If it involved a threat to my family, I couldn't. My family comes first.

SEPT 23 1989 · 01-09-2014 3:01pm

Where could you hide people in a modern irish house?

No no please don't look in the hotpress Mr SS man

FullblownRose · 01-09-2014 3:02pm

Export wrote: »

I would, if it meant no threat to the rest of my family, just to myself. If it involved a threat to my family, I couldn't. My family comes first.

I think that's what it would come down to, for me, too. I would still try to think of something I could offer a person that might help but I doubt if I could harbour someone in the same house as my family if it meant that they would have to suffer the repercussions if it came to that.

FullblownRose · 01-09-2014 3:03pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Where could you hide people in a modern irish house?

No no please don't look in the hotpress Mr SS man

I live in a castle myself..

AnonoBoy · 01-09-2014 3:03pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Where could you hide people in a modern irish house?

No no please don't look in the hotpress Mr SS man

Toilet Cistern.

Not only would they be well hidden but they'd come out minty fresh if you use one of those Harpic yokes like I do.

ScumLord · 01-09-2014 3:09pm

signostic wrote: »

The majority of the German population believed the Nazi propaganda and would have immediately reported someone seeking help.

There was also a lot of racism back then too, not just in Nazi Germany it was everywhere all over Europe. The Germans not only believed the propaganda they supported it, they were more than happy to see Jewish people trucked out of their city and didn't care what happened to them once they were gone.

I think if Britain decided to persecute Muslims today they'd find a plenty of support, even knowing full well what was happening.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 01-09-2014 3:09pm

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Toilet Cistern.

Not only would they be well hidden but they'd come out minty fresh if you use one of those Harpic yokes like I do.

You know, you're not supposed to eat those.

Shenshen · 01-09-2014 3:15pm

My mother did when I was a child.
And I do want to think that I would, too, in the same spirit.

mad muffin · 01-09-2014 3:15pm

You come knocking unsolicited at my door? I hide you in my basement.

AnonoBoy · 01-09-2014 3:27pm

Oaklynn Thousands Haircut wrote: »

You know, you're not supposed to eat those.

Yeah yeah - if that was true then how come my mouth is fresh and minty and my insides are remarkably limescale free?

PizzamanIRL · 01-09-2014 3:32pm

FullblownRose wrote: »

I am asking because I have been re-reading Anne Frank's diary

Nosy cow. Diaries are private.

FullblownRose · 01-09-2014 3:53pm

Shenshen wrote: »

My mother did when I was a child.
And I do want to think that I would, too, in the same spirit.

What happened...?

We all want to think we would, or most of us do..

I think certain things I've tried to hel ith, that I won't mention her or anywhere else, were ore of an effort on my part than st would have made, but I wasn't putting any child's life at risk, or even my own, by my involvement..

Ditch · 01-09-2014 5:53pm

FB Rose; Read http://davidmorrell.net/books/testament/

Then consider if ye still have a question

Shenshen · 01-09-2014 6:33pm

FullblownRose wrote: »

What happened...?

We all want to think we would, or most of us do..

I think certain things I've tried to hel ith, that I won't mention her or anywhere else, were ore of an effort on my part than st would have made, but I wasn't putting any child's life at risk, or even my own, by my involvement..

She wasn't risking her life, so I'm afraid it's not all that exciting.

It was in the 90s in Germany - the country was cracking down massively on asylum seekers, rejecting nearly 98% of applications.
My mother had made friends with a Romanian couple who were working in the kitchen of the old people's home where my mother was a nurse. They had applied for asylum some 3 or 4 years before, and German law back then allowed them to work for a maximum of €150 a month. So this couple was working in the kitchens, full shifts for less than minimum wage.

The reason they were seeking asylum was that the husband had been a witness in a case in Romania against a Romani clan. He had received death threats, and knew them enough not to take that likely.

After we had known them for about a year or so, the situation in Germany deteriorated drastically - in Eastern Germany, a home for asylum seekers was - for lack of a better word - under siege by neo-Nazis for a few days before they threw petrol bombs into the building (with people still inside) and burned it to the ground.
The German government reacted by tightening their asylum laws and criteria and our friends were told they had 2 weeks to leave the country.
The room they had stayed in was taken away from them.

So my mother told them they were welcome to stay at our place. I moved into my brothers' room, my mom moved a matress into the living room and our friends got my mother's bedroom.
We were trying all legal angles we could think of - up to the point where my mother considered adopting one of them to give them the right to stay.
All the while, my mother knew full well that if the DPP decided so, she could go to prison for providing them with a place to live.

Thankfully, that never happened. But a few months of fighting and legal battles later, our friends where collected by police and brought to a coach heading for Romania.

We spoke to them on the phone a few times after that - they were planning on buying up an old colchos (not sure about the English spelling) together with another couple. It would be far away from where they were originally from, and they were hoping they might be safe.
Eventually, though, we weren't able to reach them any more. Their phone line was dead.

Czarcasm · 01-09-2014 6:49pm

Shenshen wrote: »

She wasn't risking her life, so I'm afraid it's not all that exciting.

..

Fairness Shenshen that was a great story, and call me a sentimental old bastard, but I really wanted there to be a happy ending rather than the open ended questioning I'm left with wondering how things turned out for them.

It's one of the ways I try to keep myself sane with the people I help - they have my contact details, they know where I am, and I hope I never hear from them again, because to me that means they're doing alright for themselves.

Some people I've heard from years later just to tell me they're doing well now or whatever, and that's cool, but I try to think their lives turned out alright after. I'd wreck my brain otherwise.

Shenshen · 01-09-2014 6:58pm

Czarcasm wrote: »

Fairness Shenshen that was a great story, and call me a sentimental old bastard, but I really wanted there to be a happy ending rather than the open ended questioning I'm left with wondering how things turned out for them.

It's one of the ways I try to keep myself sane with the people I help - they have my contact details, they know where I am, and I hope I never hear from them again, because to me that means they're doing alright for themselves.

Some people I've heard from years later just to tell me they're doing well now or whatever, and that's cool, but I try to think their lives turned out alright after. I'd wreck my brain otherwise.

Well, my mother and I both came to the conclusion after a long talk over a few cups of tea and coffee that chances are we will never know what actually happened. So based in that, we may as well assume that they bought the colchos, and growing potatoes and farming chickens and by now have a farmful of children in the bargain.

bb1234567 · 01-09-2014 7:17pm

I wouldnt put my family in danger to help anybody. But I'd do all I could to help them without putting my family at risk...such as trying to acquire passports for them to cross borders..I dont know, whatever like

witchywoman · 01-09-2014 8:31pm

I have done it , at a considerable personal cost to myself , I just could not bear to see the person returned to a place where they were not safe after all the legal avenues were exhausted . It is a very unfair system sometimes .It cost me money , friends and ridicule , but I know it was the right thing to do and the person concerned is eternally greatful for my efforts .

would you hide persecuted people?

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