Science? Maths?!

ejayy

Ok I chose honors maths as one of my modules for science as I want to have a wider choice when I go on to chose my modules in second year however when i received the student handbook it said:

The normal minimum requirement for entry to these courses are:
MA180 / MA102: C3 in Higher Level Mathematics or A2 in Ordinary
Level Mathematics in the Leaving Certificate.

However there was only 6 people in higher level maths in my year out of 90 because the teacher didn't want people in there that weren't geniuses ( she is the laziest teacher out there, she wont teach you in class but then tells your parents she wants you to go to grinds with her for 50 euros an hour with 7 others in a group, I had her for chemistry ). So because of this I wasn't able to sit honors maths as I wasn't considered a genius in her eyes, i sat the ordinary paper and didn't do a thing for two years as I knew I wouldn't be counting it as I had 7 other honors subjects, in the end I got a C1 ( which was unreal since I hadn't done a maths paper in my life ) .. So after a long winded opening here is my question : Will I still get the chance to enter into MA 180 (honors maths) ?

Please help me!

Blackpanther95

Yes, haha the lecturers don't check, I'm pretty sure if the computer lets you (when registering) you will get away with it. And if you acc pass the module no one will bat an eye.

ejayy

hahah thank you ! I did the three sciences for leaving cert so I already have a good foundation for those subjects so I decided to pick honors maths to challenge myself! Yeah it did let me register so Im sure I will be fine? It will be tough but I'm willing to put in the effort !

Ficheall

You got a C1 in pass maths for the Leaving, and are prepared to put in the effort to do honours maths in college?

ejayy

Yes? As i said I never even opened the book in 5th year and leaving cert because I had 7 other higher subjects, I would of attempted Higher level if I was allowed but the teacher didn't want to teach.

Blackpanther95

ejayy wrote: »

Yes? As i said I never even opened the book in 5th year and leaving cert because I had 7 other higher subjects, I would of attempted Higher level if I was allowed but the teacher didn't want to teach.

Its not going to be much harder than honours maths, but it will be way harder than pass maths. Especially if the lecturer begins to assume the background knowledge of the students. A lot of ppl find first semestre a walk in the park, but second semester very difficult, because they've never seen the stuff before.

ejayy

Ive actually just changed to applied maths, dont want too much pressure on myself!

Blackpanther95

ejayy wrote: »

Ive actually just changed to applied maths, dont want too much pressure on myself!

hahahaha -worst decision ever, the amount of ppl I know who fail that, see if you do applied maths you can't drop down if things go wrong, whereas with honours maths you can. Applied maths is by far way way harder. Look at a few LC honours applied maths questions, compare those to LC honours maths questions. IMO A.maths is much more difficult.

ejayy

ok so if i did mathematical studies would that give me less of a choice to go on to do pharmacology , compared to if i did honors maths or applied maths? Or would it just be based on overall results not modules selected?

ejayy

Im really confused sorry! :L

mockshelp

I'm starting 3rd year of this course (undenominated science) the week after next. (1st years start a week before all of the rest of us - 2nd, 3rd and 4th years come back)

It should be detailed in your handbook what 1st year modules are required for entry into 2nd year subjects/pathways. e.g. anatomy requires 1st year biology BO101 and 1st year physics PH101. Honours maths isn't required for entry to any 2nd year subject (apart from 2nd year honours maths).

I took mathematical studies MA161 (pass maths) in my 1st year during 2012/13 academic year. Most people do pass maths in 1st year and anyone I know who chose honours quickly dropped down - they said "they couldn't do any of it".

Maths is important for physics, I'd say unless you want to specilizise in either something maths or physics related, honours maths isn't really necessary.

EDIT: One thing, there is quotas for 2nd year subjects. Subjects like anatomy, physiology and pharmacology are competitive to get into. There's only a small amout of places and a lot of people want to do them so who gets in is based on students with best overall 1st year results (This all should be detailed in your academic handbook sent out to you in post). So if you want any of those subjects, you will need good 1st year results. Pass maths isn't weighted as highly as honours maths (sort of like the leaving cert where an A in pass maths is equivalent to a D in honours). Seeing as you did all 3 sciences for your leaving cert, you probably should try honours maths then - to have a better chance of getting pharmacology (if that's what you want).

justBlake

I did honours maths and applied maths in 1st yr, honours maths is fine in 1st yr, as black panther said, 1st semester is a walk in the park, second semester is harder but very doable. applied maths however, I struggled the whole way through first and second semester! it is MUCH harder than honours maths (in my opinion, and the fail rate is definitely higher). the thing is, honours maths in first yr is ok, because you've been doing maths since you were in primary school. the problem with applied maths is, unless you did it for leaving cert its very difficult, because you WILL be in with people who have done applied maths for their leaving cert, and the course content goes further than whats expected at leaving cert level. If you can do honours maths , do it, the worst that happens is that you an go down to pass ( if u struggle early in 1st semester they'll let u drop straight away, if its towards the end, they encourage you to sit your xmas exam, and see how the results go). weather you get 54% in honours maths, 54% in pass maths, or 54% in applied mats, it doesn't matter, you got 54%. for some subjects in second year there is a demand, so it will go to people that come out with a higher average throughout 1st yr, regardless of subjects(well, you need to have done the pre-req's).

ejayy

mockshelp wrote: »

I'm starting 3rd year of this course (undenominated science) the week after next. (1st years start a week before all of the rest of us - 2nd, 3rd and 4th years come back)

It should be detailed in your handbook what 1st year modules are required for entry into 2nd year subjects/pathways. e.g. anatomy requires 1st year biology BO101 and 1st year physics PH101. Honours maths isn't required for entry to any 2nd year subject (apart from 2nd year honours maths).

I took mathematical studies MA161 (pass maths) in my 1st year during 2012/13 academic year. Most people do pass maths in 1st year and anyone I know who chose honours quickly dropped down - they said "they couldn't do any of it".

Maths is important for physics, I'd say unless you want to specilizise in either something maths or physics related, honours maths isn't really necessary.

EDIT: One thing, there is quotas for 2nd year subjects. Subjects like anatomy, physiology and pharmacology are competitive to get into. There's only a small amout of places and a lot of people want to do them so who gets in is based on students with best overall 1st year results (This all should be detailed in your academic handbook sent out to you in post). So if you want any of those subjects, you will need good 1st year results. Pass maths isn't weighted as highly as honours maths (sort of like the leaving cert where an A in pass maths is equivalent to a D in honours). Seeing as you did all 3 sciences for your leaving cert, you probably should try honours maths then - to have a better chance of getting pharmacology (if that's what you want).

Thank you for your reply! So I should try honors maths? And even if i opt not to do honors maths and get high grades in all 4 modules would I still have a chance of getting pharmacology/ anatomy or will they see that I have done pass maths and not consider me?

ejayy

justBlake wrote: »

I did honours maths and applied maths in 1st yr, honours maths is fine in 1st yr, as black panther said, 1st semester is a walk in the park, second semester is harder but very doable. applied maths however, I struggled the whole way through first and second semester! it is MUCH harder than honours maths (in my opinion, and the fail rate is definitely higher). the thing is, honours maths in first yr is ok, because you've been doing maths since you were in primary school. the problem with applied maths is, unless you did it for leaving cert its very difficult, because you WILL be in with people who have done applied maths for their leaving cert, and the course content goes further than whats expected at leaving cert level. If you can do honours maths , do it, the worst that happens is that you an go down to pass ( if u struggle early in 1st semester they'll let u drop straight away, if its towards the end, they encourage you to sit your xmas exam, and see how the results go). weather you get 54% in honours maths, 54% in pass maths, or 54% in applied mats, it doesn't matter, you got 54%. for some subjects in second year there is a demand, so it will go to people that come out with a higher average throughout 1st yr, regardless of subjects(well, you need to have done the pre-req's).

Ok so if I did pass maths they wont exclude me ? And what are pre reqs? So i would be better off working hard again this year to get good grades again in physics, chemisty and bio and do pass maths in order to get a good grade in that in order to get a good overall result?

Blackpanther95

mockshelp wrote: »

I'm starting 3rd year of this course (undenominated science) the week after next. (1st years start a week before all of the rest of us - 2nd, 3rd and 4th years come back)

It should be detailed in your handbook what 1st year modules are required for entry into 2nd year subjects/pathways. e.g. anatomy requires 1st year biology BO101 and 1st year physics PH101. Honours maths isn't required for entry to any 2nd year subject (apart from 2nd year honours maths).

I took mathematical studies MA161 (pass maths) in my 1st year during 2012/13 academic year. Most people do pass maths in 1st year and anyone I know who chose honours quickly dropped down - they said "they couldn't do any of it".

Maths is important for physics, I'd say unless you want to specilizise in either something maths or physics related, honours maths isn't really necessary.

EDIT: One thing, there is quotas for 2nd year subjects. Subjects like anatomy, physiology and pharmacology are competitive to get into. There's only a small amout of places and a lot of people want to do them so who gets in is based on students with best overall 1st year results (This all should be detailed in your academic handbook sent out to you in post). So if you want any of those subjects, you will need good 1st year results. Pass maths isn't weighted as highly as honours maths (sort of like the leaving cert where an A in pass maths is equivalent to a D in honours). Seeing as you did all 3 sciences for your leaving cert, you probably should try honours maths then - to have a better chance of getting pharmacology (if that's what you want).

Honours maths is required for third year applied maths- or at least its more complicated than that, but its its about having to do LA, which is a 2nd year honours maths course, and you need first year honours maths... so you have to do it to do applied maths.

Ye, but I agree, you should do honours maths and then drop down if it gets too hard!-alot of people do that so you won't be at a disadvantage.

Celestial12

Unless you're interested in persuing maths or wish to study a maths related subject then I wouldn't choose honours in first year. I've never heard they were weighted differently before. I know someone studying anatomy and physiology who wasn't good at maths, got 46 in pass maths but got an A in physics and chemistry so had an average in the mid sixties which was enough to get into the subjects in second year.

mockshelp

Page 17 of this guide from 2011 handbook details that:

All subjects are considered to be at honours level and therefore are given an equal weighting. The exception to this is Pass Level Mathematics. The weighting applied to this subject is that 100% at pass level is equivalent to 60% in Honours. Therefore, results obtained in this subject is adjusted accordingly, e.g., 85% in pass Mathematics is adjusted to 55% when determining the overall mark for a student. (N.B. this method is reviewed annually and may be subject to change for the academic year 2010/11.)

http://www.nuigalway.ie/science/documents/1styearbooklet.pdf

Im not sure has this changed since. You should ask at the advisory session if pass and honours mathematics are weighted differently when calculating overall year result. Its the people with the best overall 1st year result that have the best chance of getting into pharmacology or anatomy in year 2.

Blackpanther95

mockshelp wrote: »

Page 17 of this guide from 2011 handbook details that:

All subjects are considered to be at honours level and therefore are given an equal weighting. The exception to this is Pass Level Mathematics. The weighting applied to this subject is that 100% at pass level is equivalent to 60% in Honours. Therefore, results obtained in this subject is adjusted accordingly, e.g., 85% in pass Mathematics is adjusted to 55% when determining the overall mark for a student. (N.B. this method is reviewed annually and may be subject to change for the academic year 2010/11.)

http://www.nuigalway.ie/science/documents/1styearbooklet.pdf

Im not sure has this changed since. You should ask at the advisory session if pass and honours mathematics are weighted differently when calculating overall year result. Its the people with the best overall 1st year result that have the best chance of getting into pharmacology or anatomy in year 2.

There is no "pass maths" anymore though, its maths studies so maybe it has changed. Doubt it though, thats pretty fair, seeing as though it is more difficult.

RealJohn

You'll struggle with honours maths in university given that you only did ordinary level for leaving cert and, by your own admission, made no effort at maths for the last two years. You might manage it but I wouldn't be putting my money on you.

On an aside, if it is true that your former teacher discourages students from taking higher level unless they take grinds with her that they have to pay extra for you should make a formal complaint because there's a clear conflict of interests there. As a maths teacher myself, I think that that's extremely unprofessional behaviour. If a teacher wants to give his/her extra classes that's fine but charging for them is not. If she wants to charge for grinds, she should go looking for students who aren't in her own school.