Something to think about

Hotman

Hi there,

I can't think of a better place to put this, as in the end it boils down to greed and the economy.

2-3 years ago, i went out to purchase myself a pre-owned Xbox 360 and also a Pre-owned PS3 system for the living rooom in my house.
These 2 machines had already been out for years before hand and are old news. Then why is it the greedy owners of the shops in this country never drop the prices of these items?
Like back then i paid €160 for the PS3. I went back into Gamestop and then the trade for cash place, and there was 11 PS3's in Gamestop, €160 to €190.

Yet in the UK you can pick them up for under 100 quid, in the states you can get them for 100 dollars etc. What is it about this country that has greedy store owners stuck frozen in time when it comes to selling this stuff? Literally the exact same price we had 3 years ago.
And not just that, they had a HUGE influx of these machines all at once when the next generation came out (they actually had over 100 consoles he said) yet again, they didn't drop the price even a fiver. And STILL havn't.

EDIT: The playstation 4 has been out for a long time now, It's New Price has dropped from €440 to €435, and the second hand price is almost identical at €415... over 400 euro for a possibly suspect unit? why not just charge full price for the thing? it's basically the same..

I thought the idea was if you're overstocked, and there's not much demand, you drop the prices to encourage sales right? selling 20 at 110 is better than selling 1 at 160 after all? They seem to ignore these facts (and honestly i think in the long run they're losing countless sales and just backing up their stock piles).

And it's not just the machines themselves it's the games too, it actually makes me not want to even bother looking in stores anymore the level's of greed these irish company owners display.

Again, a couple of years ago, i noticed A large influx in one game for the PS3 and the 360, it's called Red Dead Redemption. Now there's also an expansion version out, so what everyone was doing was trading in their normal copy for €8 (i know right??) and adding €43 to the price and getting the new one.
While io was there back then i counted between both machines they had 54 copies of standard release Red Dead Redemption. and it was priced at €29.99.... how can these gangsters give people a measley 8 quid, and resell it then for an almost brand new price making 4x more profit on it??
I thought good business accumen was to buy something low and sell it high? meaning they could buy them for 8 euro, and sell them for 14.99... thats giving them also DOUBLE their investment back, but NO thats not good enough.. even with WAYYY to many to sell, thus backing up the shelves and stock, i checked in there again today and you guess it, the game is STILL €29.99... 2 years has passed. There's 49 copies (from what i could see underneath). so in 2 years they may have only sold 5 copies.

Why do they freeze the prices? they literally try to squeeze outrageous money out of us for dated used items. It's 9.99 pre-owned in GAME.CO.UK.
If they have 49 of a game.. SURELY they need to lower the price substantially? i mean they only paid 8 for the gameif they sold it for 10 they'd be making a huge 20% profit, but no, they're sell the odd one here and there for 150% profit, with no thought or consideration for the poor people (especially childred) wallets. I think these business owners are disgusting greedy and pathetic. They're overstocked, over supplied, they're ripping you off with the cashback, and they're selling used products and new games prices..

Can anyone shed some light on why it only seems to be in ireland?
Why does it seem that any of these "Second Hand" shops and trade in stores only charge slightly less than new for used and dubious items? It's puzzling.

Last thing, 2 games in the top 20 have been out just coming up to 2 years. and they're still selling them for €49.99... WHAT!?? game.co.uk are selling for 13.99 and 16.99 new.
The biggest beef with these newer games is, they charge you €49.99 for it, tiy trade it back in and they give you €12 for it, then they resell it for €44.99 ... The used version without the codes etc is only FIVE quid cheaper than a brand new sealed copy? is this not the most ignorant, backwards, greedy pack of wolves you've ever heard of in your lives?

Or am i just not used to how business works.

Thanks for taking the time to read.

mistermouse

I worked in retail a few years ago which included games.

Firstly, new games are priced high due to licensing which in the case of Playstation is costly, covering Sony's selling of the console at less than cost to produce. ie the game software company pay a royalty as such to playstation

Many retailers would end up with some over stock of titles that would then become platnium and would not get sale or return on full price titles.

This happens a lot in electronics and very few retailers get what is known as price protection (where a rebate is supplied for having stock when the MANUFACTURER decides to drop the price)

I wasn't privy to all the details, but certainly can see how businesses in that area take quite a few hits - Apple also are a company that only offer a very small margin, no sale or return and no price protection. Also where a shop may put out a case on display and keep the disc behind the counter, it may be deemed as 'Shop Soiled', perhaps why it was unsealed. In my time we did that and not every new game box was sealed, infact CDs are rarely shrink wrapped.

These areas of business are quite difficult to predict, the stock has to be paid for (often on limited credit terms), Rent, Rates, Wages, Employee Prsi and more costs come in weekly. Game sales have obviously been hit by online sales and online gaming etc.

Selling second hand games is a difficult business as many customers do not know how to handle CDs/DVDs etc

However I would find it extremely hard to see how a company could charge almost new prices for second hand games. It may be the case that the store in question was selling a 'returned' game as second hand, simply as it was returned for a refund - they may actually be doing the right thing here if the game was as new but returned and therefore could be deemed as used.

Retail is a very tough game and particularly in Electronics and brown goods, most small independent retailers, and some household names have gone to the wall.

Also your argument is flawed, primarily as you do not understand retail costs or taxation perhaps, if a shop buys in a game at €8 secondhand, it cannot claim back VAT from a person on the street, it must however charge VAT on the subsequent sale of the item at 21%, that is before putting their own margin on the sale which needs to cover costs etc and try to make a profit, this additional cost/margin become part of the re-sale price which is again in total subject to VAT.

It is well documented about the differences between Uk and Irish prices, Irish wages and costs are much much higher than the UK, especially wages, ask anyone who works in Northern Ireland - there also is a huge difference in scale of economy, ie, look at the population of the UK compared to Ireland and sales of any item. Yes many multi-nationals do profiteer in Ireland, but Ireland really needs to look at itself. If it wants UK prices it needs to look at the cost of doing business here. Look at wages and dole rates between both countries and you will start to understand economics quite quickly.

But you can take some comfort in the fact that Sony, Xbox etc are pushing hard to make it all an online affair, where there will be no retail, no returns or little customer service, there will also be no jobs or rates locally either which contibute to many services and local economies.

FreudianSlippers

It boils down to simple capitalism: companies will always charge what consumers are willing to spend on an item. If there was nobody willing to buy these items at their high prices, they would have to adjust and lower prices to the point at which consumers would buy.

The Corinthian

Retail in Ireland charging a questionable premium, compared to the rest of Europe, is nothing new. It used to be a lot worse before the markets opened up, due to the EU, and before the Euro. It's actually improved.

AlekSmart

The Corinthian wrote: »

Retail in Ireland charging a questionable premium, compared to the rest of Europe, is nothing new. It used to be a lot worse before the markets opened up, due to the EU, and before the Euro. It's actually improved.

Also a cultural aspect I feel,whereby few of "us" want to admit we're price conscious,as if it indicates we're skint or miserable feckers....;)

It's why we elect folks such as Charlie McCreevy and whoop n' holler when they make Minister For Finance

http://gombeennation.blogspot.ie/2010/12/charlie-mccreevy-original-genius-behind.html

Items such as Leapcard,which offers up to 20% discount on Cash Public Transport fare levels,are ignored,often IMO,to allow individuals to have something to give out about...no mileage to be had in complaining about stuff being CHEAPER...Grrrr

Motor Fuel is another good example,with nice tidy wee queue's to be seen at Filling Stations charging 156.9 :eek:,yet pump-space available at TWO nearby stations charging :eek: 150.9 :eek:

The Corinthian

AlekSmart wrote: »

Also a cultural aspect I feel,whereby few of "us" want to admit we're price conscious,as if it indicates we're skint or miserable feckers....;)

Oh, claiming to be skint has never been a big problem in Ireland - indeed, throwing any money around used to be frowned upon and indicative of a crook or British collaborator up until the Celtic Tiger. I suspect the real reason was protectionism and lack of transparency.

Items such as Leapcard,which offers up to 20% discount on Cash Public Transport fare levels

I don't know why you think the Leapcard is so wonderful. It just allows the politicians respite from having to solve the issue of Dublin being the only European capital that does not have integrated fares - you may be paying from an an integrated payment system but public transport is still not integrated. It's actually embarrassing when you consider that much of Europe has had this level of organization for thirty years or more.

A single monthly ticket will give me access to every train, S-Bahn, bus, tram, ship and even funicular in Zurich. And it's cheaper than any Dublin equivalent. Weiss Afrika, TBH.

FreudianSlippers

I wouldn't be at all impressed by 10+ year old technology being rolled out locally at present. Especially when TfL are getting near field scanners soon to work with your phone. Can't wait for that on the bus in 15 years!

The Corinthian

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Can't wait for that on the bus in 15 years!

15 years? Optimistic. It took 20 years of negotiations with the Dublin Bus unions to agree to phase out conductors.

For Forks Sake

Hotman wrote: »

Like back then i paid €160 for the PS3. I went back into Gamestop and then the trade for cash place, and there was 11 PS3's in Gamestop, €160 to €190.

And it's not just the machines themselves it's the games too, it actually makes me not want to even bother looking in stores anymore the level's of greed these irish company owners display.

Gamestop are an American company.

AlekSmart

The Corinthian wrote: »

Oh, claiming to be skint has never been a big problem in Ireland - indeed, throwing any money around used to be frowned upon and indicative of a crook or British collaborator up until the Celtic Tiger. I suspect the real reason was protectionism and lack of transparency.

I don't know why you think the Leapcard is so wonderful. It just allows the politicians respite from having to solve the issue of Dublin being the only European capital that does not have integrated fares - you may be paying from an an integrated payment system but public transport is still not integrated. It's actually embarrassing when you consider that much of Europe has had this level of organization for thirty years or more.

A single monthly ticket will give me access to every train, S-Bahn, bus, tram, ship and even funicular in Zurich. And it's cheaper than any Dublin equivalent. Weiss Afrika, TBH.

Leapcard as a platform IS wonderful,quite suited to the job required of it in Dublin.

However,what is at issue is how a Multi Departmental High Power Integrated Ticketing Implementation Group (With representatives from ALL Public Transport interests) was able to embark upon an Integrated Ticketing Programme by alowing and encouraging the disparate providers to maintain their existing systems and even introduce new ones.

The stated intention,over a decade ago now,was to "Facilitate Integration at a future point in time"....always kicking that can down the road......:o

Those burghers in Zurich are no fools...they would have BEGUN the process by immediately integrating their products and moving forward from that.

The Corinthian

AlekSmart wrote: »

Leapcard as a platform IS wonderful,quite suited to the job required of it in Dublin.

You do realize that your 'wonderful' Leapcard has given the interested parties an excuse to say they've addressed the problem and kick that can down the road for another ten years? Nothing to celebrate.

Those burghers in Zurich are no fools...they would have BEGUN the process by immediately integrating their products and moving forward from that.

No. The Swiss, just like everyone else in Europe made a transition from multiple ticket vendors to an integrated system - in the 1990's I think - the Germans and Italians managed it in the 1980's. It's just CIE that can't.

Frank Lee Midere

The Corinthian wrote: »

You do realize that your 'wonderful' Leapcard has given the interested parties an excuse to say they've addressed the problem and kick that can down the road for another ten years? Nothing to celebrate.

No. The Swiss, just like everyone else in Europe made a transition from multiple ticket vendors to an integrated system - in the 1990's I think - the Germans and Italians managed it in the 1980's. It's just CIE that can't.

Hang on my leap card works on the bus. It works on the Dart. It sorta works on Luas although I never use that. Also auto tops up.

The Corinthian

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Hang on my leap card works on the bus. It works on the Dart. It sorta works on Luas although I never use that. Also auto tops up.

You do understand what integrated ticketing actually is?

I can get a ticket in Zurich HB, and then hop on a train, off again and on a tram, then onto a ship to cross the Zürichsee, then a bus with the same ticket, to get to my destination. How many times and tickets would you need to buy with your Leapcard for a similar journey?

Idbatterim

op why dont you just buy online from the uk? Thats the great thing now, we have the choice! Id say the retailers would say that because sales volumes are low, they require a high margin before costs are factored in...

quadrifoglio verde

The Corinthian wrote: »

You do understand what integrated ticketing actually is?

I can get a ticket in Zurich HB, and then hop on a train, off again and on a tram, then onto a ship to cross the Zürichsee, then a bus with the same ticket, to get to my destination. How many times and tickets would you need to buy with your Leapcard for a similar journey?

Leapcard has the capability to do that....id put money on the head honchos in Irish rail and dublin bus being against it. The more money they can get out of you, the better for them. Don't get me wrong, Id love to be able to have an integrated ticket (I think paris gives you unlimited use for 90 mins) and leap card is capable of providing that, however our transport providers don't want to, out of fear of losing out

The Corinthian

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Leapcard has the capability to do that....id put money on the head honchos in Irish rail and dublin bus being against it.

The problem has never been a technological one. As I said earlier, Dublin Bus only introduced driver-only buses in the 1990's, finally phasing out conductors, a change that took near twenty years of negotiations to achieve.

Problem is that the various CIE companies (that are incidentally autonomous of each other) have long been run for the benefit of their employees and not the public, along with management that resembles a pride of drunk monkeys in their professionalism, which is not what one would expect of a state monopoly.

The problem with the Leapcard is that it has become a classic example of an Irish solution to an Irish problem. A half-arsed fix is put in place, so that those responsible can kick the can down the road for another 20 years. That people don't even seem to know what integrated ticketing actually means and have swallowed the Leapcard as a legitimate solution faster than a 40 Euro blowjob, adds to the problem.

I think paris gives you unlimited use for 90 mins

All of Europe has similar set-ups. CIE can't even use population density as an excuse as there are cities smaller than Dublin and Cork that have integrated networks.

Hotman

The Corinthian wrote: »

The problem has never been a technological one. As I said earlier, Dublin Bus only introduced driver-only buses in the 1990's, finally phasing out conductors, a change that took near twenty years of negotiations to achieve.

Problem is that the various CIE companies (that are incidentally autonomous of each other) have long been run for the benefit of their employees and not the public, along with management that resembles a pride of drunk monkeys in their professionalism, which is not what one would expect of a state monopoly.

The problem with the Leapcard is that it has become a classic example of an Irish solution to an Irish problem. A half-arsed fix is put in place, so that those responsible can kick the can down the road for another 20 years. That people don't even seem to know what integrated ticketing actually means and have swallowed the Leapcard as a legitimate solution faster than a 40 Euro blowjob, adds to the problem.

All of Europe has similar set-ups. CIE can't even use population density as an excuse as there are cities smaller than Dublin and Cork that have integrated networks.

Any chance we can move on from Leapcard? we don't have it in the rest of the country lol.
Can anyone think of a reason how Gamestop/Xtravision get away with selling "New titles" for only a fiver less than new price for a fiver less?

Like how can they sell a game for 64.99, make their profit on it, buy it back for 14 (losing their profit) and then reselling it for 59.99, making a further 60 profit. How do they get away with that? you lose all online codes, all goodies associated with the new purchase, for only a fiver less.

If i bought a subaru impreza for 19,999, Used up the warranty, burt out the tyres and scratched up the body. I'd bring it back to sell, they'd give me 4000 for it, and resell it for 19,500... thats the comparison.

Someone said "Well they only charge this much as people are willing to pay it, if they stop paying, they'd have to drop the price", but thats not true in Gamestop's eyes. Like my Red Dead Redemption argument.
It's been out years, yet they're still selling it pre-owned for €24.99. at one point they had over 30 copies of it on the shelves pre-owned. From what i could see they'd only sold 4 within a period of a couple opf months, yet they still never dropped the price? wouldn't they be better ofrr selling 30 copies at 14.99, than selling 4 copies it 24.99 and having overstock?

I know im using gamestop as an example, but it's the same for alot of other electronic components/equipment.

Like the PS4 etc has been out like 9 months, and they're still only 25 quid cheaper than the new price for a second hand one.
Like they got 440 for it, they gave the user 220 back (yup thats the trade in price), and now will resell it for 415. That exponential profit is out of control. The fact they could make 2 grand off of 1 box in the right conditions is mind boggling how they still manage to report losses..

In industries where you have a monopoly, and no regulators, how the F*CK do you not make profit? (Eircom) lol.

Valetta

People pay the price charged for the second-hand game.

It's that simple.

Gamestop are doing nothing wrong.

Hotman

Valetta wrote: »

People pay the price charged for the second-hand game.

It's that simple.

Gamestop are doing nothing wrong.

The fact that you don't batt an eyelid at the fact that they're selling used good's at almost new prices is ok is what scares me about Ireland, it's economy and it's mob mentality.
Do you think they'd stand for this in england? they'd have the windows in

Valetta

Hotman wrote: »

The fact that you don't batt an eyelid at the fact that they're selling used good's at almost new prices is ok is what scares me about Ireland, it's economy and it's mob mentality.
Do you think they'd stand for this in england? they'd have the windows in

Who are "they"? I take it you mean the people that are looking to buy second-hand games. If so, then you've answered your own question.

Gamestop only sell something when someone else agrees to buy it.

Do you not see that?

Jim2007

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Hang on my leap card works on the bus. It works on the Dart. It sorta works on Luas although I never use that. Also auto tops up.

Yes, but can you buy your ticket online print it out or save it to your mobile and simply use it on the tram, bus, boat or train??? A bit of a way to go...

Jim2007

Hotman wrote: »

The fact that you don't batt an eyelid at the fact that they're selling used good's at almost new prices is ok is what scares me about Ireland, it's economy and it's mob mentality.
Do you think they'd stand for this in england? they'd have the windows in

If people are will to pay those prices, can you blame the merchants. What it tells me is that Irish people still have not learned to be frugal nor that frugal is actually the norm!

For example, over the years here in Switzerland I've been to about 20 weddings and I have yet to be at one that was in a hotel! The norm is a farmer's barn or a local hall of some kind, with the food being supplied by the two families and a local band supplying the music. If you spent more than a month's salary on your your wedding over here, they'd say you were crazy.

AlekSmart

Jim2007 wrote: »

If people are will to pay those prices, can you blame the merchants. What it tells me is that Irish people still have not learned to be frugal nor that frugal is actually the norm!

For example, over the years here in Switzerland I've been to about 20 weddings and I have yet to be at one that was in a hotel! The norm is a farmer's barn or a local hall of some kind, with the food being supplied by the two families and a local band supplying the music. If you spent more than a month's salary on your your wedding over here, they'd say you were crazy.

Ah but They're Swiss....everyone of them Dull,Boring,Glum,dedicated to work and don't know how to have "The Craic"....always worrying about efficiency n **** like that,unlike Us,who really know how to PARTY :eek: and show folks how to chill.....that's why EVERYBODY loves US...and only the Pope loves the Swiss

Swiss Frugality is SO yesterday ,the Irish are moving forward,into the future !

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/buyers-queue-for-final-night-to-land-dream-home-at-new-housing-development-30565476.html

I wonder if Gerry Gannon stress-tested his development with "eager" Swiss house-hunters first ?

Jim2007

AlekSmart wrote: »

I wonder if Gerry Gannon stress-tested his development with "eager" Swiss house-hunters first ?

Home ownership is not high on the average Swiss citizen's list of priorities and is not encouraged by the tax system either. On the other hand gains from equity investing are completely tax free! So pretty much everyone has a portfolio - even the local electrician's apprentice!

The Corinthian

Jim2007 wrote: »

Home ownership is not high on the average Swiss citizen's list of priorities and is not encouraged by the tax system either.

Well, my understanding is that a lot of Swiss own their homes de jure, but not de facto. That is the bank, AFAIK, owns the home until they've paid off the mortgage, so many pay it off until they reach a point where servicing the interest is much less than paying the wealth tax they'd be charged if they officially owned it.

There's more of an attitude of asking "does it make sense" when spending or investing money in Switzerland, than in Ireland where doing so for reasons of status, ego or just fear seem to be more important. If it makes long-term financial sense to buy a house, you will. If not, you won't. Meanwhile in Ireland it was more about clichés about "being on the ladder", without actually working out whether it made sense to be on the "ladder" in the first place.

So a Swiss may have a 5,000 Fr watch on their wrist, but if they do, you can be sure that they originally bought it for 2,000 Fr on the basis that it would appreciate in value. That wouldn't even occur to most Irish, who would buy a 600€ watch which would already be worth 300€ by the time they exit the shop they bought it in.

AlekSmart

The Corinthian wrote: »

So a Swiss may have a 5,000 Fr watch on their wrist, but if they do, you can be sure that they originally bought it for 2,000 Fr on the basis that it would appreciate in value. That wouldn't even occur to most Irish, who would buy a 600€ watch which would already be worth 300€ by the time they exit the shop they bought it in.

This is the crunch of the matter,Attitude...or rather why is it so difficult to get our Native Attitude to be a tad more focused on reality.

The German customers I deal with,will ALWAYS keep abreast of the best value available vis-a-vis Leap/Rambler/Cash and will immediately seek out the best value option.

They require almost no marketing or persuasion to do this.

What element of the Germanic upbringing/education system allows for such clarity of focus amongst so many ordinary people in their societies ?

Jim2007

The Corinthian wrote: »

Well, my understanding is that a lot of Swiss own their homes de jure, but not de facto. That is the bank, AFAIK, owns the home until they've paid off the mortgage, so many pay it off until they reach a point where servicing the interest is much less than paying the wealth tax they'd be charged if they officially owned it.

Well home ownership is about 40% and that includes farmhouses etc... Many inherit their house plus mortgage, but few people start out with the 'I want to get on the property ladder' objective.

The Corinthian wrote: »

There's more of an attitude of asking "does it make sense" when spending or investing money in Switzerland, than in Ireland where doing so for reasons of status, ego or just fear seem to be more important. If it makes long-term financial sense to buy a house, you will. If not, you won't. Meanwhile in Ireland it was more about clichés about "being on the ladder", without actually working out whether it made sense to be on the "ladder" in the first place.

This is unfortunately true...

The Corinthian

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well home ownership is about 40% and that includes farmhouses etc...

My point is that the real home ownership figure is probably much higher, but is cloaked by this 'ownership' slight of hand.

Many inherit their house plus mortgage,

Ahh... generational mortgages... good thing for Ireland that the bubble burst before those got introduced.

but few people start out with the 'I want to get on the property ladder' objective.

Agreed. But in this respect, Ireland is unusual; most of continental (Western, at least) Europe does not suffer this lemming like need to be on the 'ladder'.

Jim2007

The Corinthian wrote: »

My point is that the real home ownership figure is probably much higher, but is cloaked by this 'ownership' slight of hand.

I don't believe so. The pension funds are required to hold a high percentage of their assets in property and as result may apartment blocks plus private houses are ultimately owned by such funds.

I live in a small town and out of the 6 houses on my road two are owned by the occupiers, one is rented out by a farmer and 3 are owned by a pension fund.

daUbiq

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Gamestop are an American company.

Those crazy capitalists with their failed ideology!