US Military flights through Ireland and Shannon?

Stinicker

I'm not really sure where to post this but anyway, perhaps someone here can shed any light on the issue?

I know a guy who is retired US Airforce and he flew during the bombing of Vietnam back in the day. I know this guy cause I'm pretty close with his daughter He wants to visit Ireland and Europe next year as he is in his late sixties now and retired. He told me even though he is retired he can still catch a free flight with the US Airforce and has flown at times from Asia to the US for free. I understand that he was a fairly high ranking member when he was in the US Air force.

He has never been to Europe and I was just discussing with him recently on Skype about his plans to visit, obviously if the guy can hitch a free flight over to Europe then for him that would be great as it would save him close to a thousand dollars. He says he could fly to Ramstein in Germany but what I'm really wondering is it could be even better if he could catch a flight into Shannon with the US Airforce for free for him!!

Last time I flew out of Shannon was 2008 but I encountered dozens of US soldiers in the airport and saw a military transporter there before also. These guys were obviously flying over to Iraq at the time, so basically what I'm wondering if my plan for him to fly into Shannon for free could work, do US military transporters still fly via Shannon? Obviously there is no schedules or anything in the Public domain, but if they are still flying through even occasionally then he could hitch a ride over for free, another plan is a cheap Ryanair ticket in from Frankfurt Hahn in Germany which isn't too far away from Ramstein.

Larbre34

Yes the USAF still transits personnel and equipment through Shannon quite frequently, but obviously its not what you would call a regular schedule, so I dont think this forum can be much help to you. You or he would need some contact in the right section of the Air Force to gain access to a flight. If he can get here, his passport is just as good as anyone elses and he can come through immigration like any punter on a commercial flight

Manic Moran

Space available travel is not announced more than two days ahead, for obvious reasons. Airplanes coming to Shannon can come from anywhere. It is going to be very difficult to sort out travel that way, he's better off flying to Germany and using Ryanair the rest of the way.

steveblack

Correct me if i'm wrong ,no offence intended.

The man in the pub word is that Shannon was built during the cold war, at that time satellites did not have the ability to see through cloud. Therefore Shannon was invisible to USSR satellites for 80% of the time.( cant remember total cloud cover time, but it was crazy high).I believe it was the longest civilian runway in all of Europe at the time of construction.

Knock airport is in the middle of nowhere but apparently it was the widest civilian runway in all of Europe at the time of construction.
The man in the pub tells me the longest runway at Shannon and the widest at Knock where needed to facilitate the B52 bomber at Shannon and some type of Tank/Heavy armament transporter plane for Knock.
If WW3 broke out the USA would have used Ireland as a Aircraft carrier.

Have they been paid for and owned by the USA, therefore free to do what every they want there?
It would explain rendition flights and troop transports through Ireland

Im not here to start a argument, but i would like to hear other reasons for the construction of Shannon and Knock.

endacl

steveblack wrote: »

C

Im not here to start a argument, but i would like to hear other reasons for the construction of Shannon and Knock.

They were built for two reasons:

1. To serve the west and north-west of the country.
2. To provide a much needed boost to the then-struggling Irish tinfoil and hat making industries.

Gatling

We would have been used as an aircraft carrier like with maverick , goose and iceman on board ,

But in all honesty wouldn't they just use Baldonell the purpose built air Corp station /base thats been there forever .

ardle1

steveblack wrote: »

Im not here to start a argument, but i would like to hear other reasons for the construction of Shannon and Knock.

Eh, just to make money on Emigration,Americans making family trees and people interested in Genealogy






Oh I do apologise, I thought I was still in AH... SORRY. I'll tip on back!

artanevilla

Wasn't Knock built by some mad priest?

AlmightyCushion

steveblack wrote: »

Correct me if i'm wrong ,no offence intended.

The man in the pub word is that Shannon was built during the cold war, at that time satellites did not have the ability to see through cloud. Therefore Shannon was invisible to USSR satellites for 80% of the time.( cant remember total cloud cover time, but it was crazy high).I believe it was the longest civilian runway in all of Europe at the time of construction.

Knock airport is in the middle of nowhere but apparently it was the widest civilian runway in all of Europe at the time of construction.
The man in the pub tells me the longest runway at Shannon and the widest at Knock where needed to facilitate the B52 bomber at Shannon and some type of Tank/Heavy armament transporter plane for Knock.
If WW3 broke out the USA would have used Ireland as a Aircraft carrier.

Have they been paid for and owned by the USA, therefore free to do what every they want there?
It would explain rendition flights and troop transports through Ireland

Im not here to start a argument, but i would like to hear other reasons for the construction of Shannon and Knock.

The soviets used Shannon as a stopover up until the 90s. If the US had anything to do with Shannon there is no way in hell they'd let the soviets anywhere near it.

steveblack

Gatling wrote: »

We would have been used as an aircraft carrier like with maverick , goose and iceman on board ,

But in all honesty wouldn't they just use Baldonell the purpose built air Corp station /base thats been there forever .

How long and wide is Baldonell?
When the pope came to Ireland in the 70's his 747 had to land in shannon as dublin airports runway was to short to accommodate his plane. He then continued on to Dublin in helicopter.

steveblack

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The soviets used Shannon as a stopover up until the 90s. If the US had anything to do with Shannon there is no way in hell they'd let the soviets anywhere near it.

Dont shoot the messenger, it just a strip of tarmac.
I have personally seen Russian Naval ships take on fuel in Galway.

I was asking why Shannon is one of the longest and Knock one of the widest runways in all of Europe?

They are longer and wider that Dublin, Cork or Belfast runways.

steveblack

endacl wrote: »

They were built for two reasons:

1. To serve the west and north-west of the country.
2. To provide a much needed boost to the then-struggling Irish tinfoil and hat making industries.

Point 1 sounds reasonable,
But for point 2, has the Irish tin foil industry not been replaced by space age polymers.

Gatling

steveblack wrote: »

I was asking why Shannon is one of the longest and Knock one of the widest runways in all of Europe?

They are longer and wider that Dublin, Cork or Belfast runways.

because dublin was built long before the jet age as was cork and Belfast if I'm correct ,

sparky42

Gatling wrote: »

because dublin was built long before the jet age as was cork and Belfast if I'm correct ,

Cork was built at the dawn of the Jet age in the 60's with a Comet being the first jet in '64.

As to the question of Shannon and Knock, the same reason that anything substantial in terms of state capital get's built in the West, buying votes.

Manic Moran

Being as Shannon is the first airport one was going to come to after many miles of nothing but water, it seems to me to make sense that a pilot nursing a broken airplane in would want the longest runway possible to give him some margin of error.

For the same reason, the runway was designated as an alternative landing strip for the space shuttle, though I'm not sure what year that runway was built to that length, so I can't say if the runway was built for NASA's requirements or not.

tricky D

steveblack wrote: »

Dont shoot the messenger, it just a strip of tarmac.
I have personally seen Russian Naval ships take on fuel in Galway.

I was asking why Shannon is one of the longest and Knock one of the widest runways in all of Europe?

They are longer and wider that Dublin, Cork or Belfast runways.

Knock is 45m wide and Dublin 16/34 is 61m wide which kinda sums up the quality of the argument.

folbotcar

steveblack wrote: »

How long and wide is Baldonell?
When the pope came to Ireland in the 70's his 747 had to land in shannon as dublin airports runway was to short to accommodate his plane. He then continued on to Dublin in helicopter.

What are you talking about? The Pope landed in Dublin.

Plus Knock's runway is not the widest in Europe. It's not even the widest in Ireland.

Go back to your man in the pub and tell him he talking rubbish.

Jawgap

artanevilla wrote: »

Wasn't Knock built by some mad priest?

The likely story (1) - Shannon evolved from the flying boat stop over at Foynes, which incidentally was linked to Bristol and facilitated a lot of passengers during WWII called 'Smith' heading to / from Portugal & Spain, and thence on to N Africa.

The likely story (2) - Knock was built by the force of Mgr Horan's personality who realised that the generally deprived West could only benefit from having decent transport connections to the outside world and as such a long runway was needed to accommodate jets and direct flights, rather than simply relying on a connection to Dublin.

Fun story (1) - the development and expansion of Shannon was part funded by the Yanks as a potential alternate for SR-71 and U2 flights operating out of the Continental US, if they had to abort (and latterly the shuttle), and that it was so long to accommodate C5s bringing in supplies in the event the Cold War got hot.

The dastardly Russkis then began to use it as a stopover to Cuba and the Yanks gifted us the only (at the time) INS immigration pre-clearance operation there as cover so they (the CIA) could monitor what flights etc Aeroflot were sending over.

Fun story (2) - Knock was part funded by the CIA for similar reasons, to be used as an emergency air base in the event a shooting war developed in Europe.

The government have always denied both fun stories............but then they would, wouldn't they

Fun Story (3) - the M50 was constructed as either a defensive moat to keep boghoppers out or a wall to keep dubs in..........

Negative_G

Jawgap wrote: »

Fun story (1) - the development and expansion of Shannon was part funded by the Yanks as a potential alternate for SR-71 and U2 flights operating out of the Continental US, if they had to abort (and latterly the shuttle), and that it was so long to accommodate C5s bringing in supplies in the event the Cold War got hot.

The dastardly Russkis then began to use it as a stopover to Cuba and the Yanks gifted us the only (at the time) INS immigration pre-clearance operation there as cover so they (the CIA) could monitor what flights etc Aeroflot were sending over.

Fun story (2) - Knock was part funded by the CIA for similar reasons, to be used as an emergency air base in the event a shooting war developed in Europe.

The government have always denied both fun stories............but then they would, wouldn't they

.

Have you any links to support these claims?

Genuinely interested.

endacl

Negative_G wrote: »

Have you any links to support these claims?

Genuinely interested.

link

Negative_G

Thank you for your insightful reply. How very witty of you.

Jawgap

Negative_G wrote: »

Have you any links to support these claims?

Genuinely interested.

Nope......it's the type of shi'ite that gets kicked around when aviation historians get even more anoraky than usual.

I think the only bit you'll find any kind of semi-rational information on is the use of Shannon as an abort alternate for the Shuttle, when launched on a northerly track.

A lot of it is putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with an apple.

Negative_G

Jawgap wrote: »

Nope......it's the type of shi'ite that gets kicked around when aviation historians get even more anoraky than usual.

I think the only bit you'll find any kind of semi-rational information on is the use of Shannon as an abort alternate for the Shuttle, when launched on a northerly track.

A lot of it is putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with an apple.

I thought as much.

The shuttle story is one I have heard before and verified by fire crew in Shannon who were briefed by NASA reps.

Unfortunately, searching 'Shannon and CIA' only serve to provide shannonwatch with more traffic!

Jawgap

Negative_G wrote: »

I thought as much.

The shuttle story is one I have heard before and verified by fire crew in Shannon who were briefed by NASA reps.

Unfortunately, searching 'Shannon and CIA' only serve to provide shannonwatch with more traffic!

........welcome to the internet

Negative_G

Jawgap wrote: »

........welcome to the internet

What a time to be alive!

sparky42

Negative_G wrote: »

I thought as much.

The shuttle story is one I have heard before and verified by fire crew in Shannon who were briefed by NASA reps.

Unfortunately, searching 'Shannon and CIA' only serve to provide shannonwatch with more traffic!

I think NASA crews have admitted that trying for Shannon in an abort situation would be "an experience". How they planned to get it back to the US if it ever happened is another question (I don't know if the 747 had the range to fly it back, it normally did hops when transferring them across the US)

Negative_G

sparky42 wrote: »

I think NASA crews have admitted that trying for Shannon in an abort situation would be "an experience". How they planned to get it back to the US if it ever happened is another question (I don't know if the 747 had the range to fly it back, it normally did hops when transferring them across the US)

I think that when dealing with something like re-entry, anything out of the relative routine could well be an experience.

I've no idea of the logistics involved but I would imagine you are correct regarding the 747, the extra drag created must have been immense!

sparky42

Negative_G wrote: »

I think that when dealing with something like re-entry, anything out of the relative routine could well be an experience.

I've no idea of the logistics involved but I would imagine you are correct regarding the 747, the extra drag created must have been immense!

It wasn't re-entry though, as far as I've read it was for serious engine failure on launch that Shannon was a designated abort landing (ie if the Shuttle's main engines failed as 1 did (not the SRB's exploding))

So basically you would have had an arc from Florida to Shannon.

Manic Moran

sparky42 wrote: »

I think NASA crews have admitted that trying for Shannon in an abort situation would be "an experience". How they planned to get it back to the US if it ever happened is another question (I don't know if the 747 had the range to fly it back, it normally did hops when transferring them across the US)

Shannon-Scotland-Greenland-Canada-US, probably.

sparky42

Manic Moran wrote: »

Shannon-Scotland-Greenland-Canada-US, probably.

Maybe not, looking at the Shuttle 747 wiki, it only has a range of 1,100 miles, Scotland to Greenland is 1,500 miles. Maybe they planned to send a Carrier and load it onto the deck?

Jawgap

sparky42 wrote: »

Maybe not, looking at the Shuttle 747 wiki, it only has a range of 1,100 miles, Scotland to Greenland is 1,500 miles. Maybe they planned to send a Carrier and load it onto the deck?

Add in Iceland to that and you'd be grand.

westdub

sparky42 wrote: »

Maybe not, looking at the Shuttle 747 wiki, it only has a range of 1,100 miles, Scotland to Greenland is 1,500 miles. Maybe they planned to send a Carrier and load it onto the deck?

NASA sent the Enterprise (OV-101) across to the Paris Airshow back in 1983 with refueling stops in Goose Bay, Canada; Keflavik, Iceland and England.


http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/resources/orbiters/enterprise.html