Imagine the frustration being a atheist, femminist housewife in 50's Ireland

Shiraz 4.99

John Charles McQuaid denying you tampons, never mind contraception.
Doing a good 5 decades every night with the family, never mentioning your doubts.
No point resisting the husbands advances even if you weren't in the mood.
Those few slaps you took for talking back, no point bringing it up with authority.
The Gardaí wouldn't listen & the priest would tell you to go back to being a dutiful wife.

Sometimes we forget what freedoms we enjoy compared to previous generations & we forget what obstacles they had to endure & overcome so we could speak out.
I hope many of them now in their 80's & 90's can look back swelled with pride on what they accomplished, maybe even a voice saying quietly "we got the fcukers".
I hope many of them do.

The Peanut

(No point resisting the husbands advances even if you weren't in the mood.
Those few slaps you took for talking back, no point bringing it up with authority.
The Gardaí wouldn't listen)

Yeah, stopped in the 50's.

solomafioso

Look at all this freedom we have!

Chance The Fapper

The Peanut wrote: »

No point resisting the husbands advances even if you weren't in the mood.
Those few slaps you took for talking back, no point bringing it up with authority.
The Gardaí wouldn't listen

Yeah, stopped in the 50's.

Dunno about you, but none of the lads I know rape their wives, or slap them for that matter

The Peanut

Chance The Fapper wrote: »

Dunno about you, but none of the lads I know rape their wives, or slap them for that matter

Well done you.

DeadHand

Ireland is a historical oddity in that the population generally enjoyed less personal freedom after gaining independence.

fedor.2.

The Peanut wrote: »

Well done you.

Nice attitude, you'll go far kid:cool:

SEPT 23 1989

I am sure not all housewives had to put up with that carry on then but im sure some housewives are putting up with that now

Shiraz 4.99

The Peanut wrote: »

Well done you.

I said rubbish, ignore

Nomis21

In 20 years we will be talking with consternation about the year 2014 when Irish women didn't even have the right to make decisions about their own bodies,

The Peanut

fedor.2. wrote: »

Nice attitude, you'll go far kid:cool:

I'm sorry but I do know from personal experience and I don't think any slight dismissal of rape is appropriate. Does the poster actually think that the lads he knows would tell him that's happening?

WellThen?

Great. So maybe we can cut all the feminist freedom stuff. So sick of hearing about it in this part of the world when there are women around the world who really need equality laws.

DeadHand

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I am sure not all housewives had to put up with that carry on then but im sure some housewives are putting up with that now

Indeed, but spousal abuse was more widespread and infinitely more acceptable in the 50s.

Grayson

To be fair women still had a raw deal more recent than the 50's. things were nearly as bad in the 80's and early 90's. It was only in the late 80's that a woman could open a bank account without a man cosigning.

eviltwin

marital rape was legal until 1990.

LETHAL LADY

Don't forget the Churching of women who were seen as unclean after childbirth.

My name is URL

Imagine the frustration being a atheist, femminist housewife in 50's Ireland

Kind of a breeze compared to what catholics faced between 1649 & 1653 really

Ireland is a historical oddity in that the population generally enjoyed less personal freedom after gaining independence.

That's just bullcrap tbh.

The Purveyor of Truth

Yes, disgraceful the way housewives, and women in general, were objectified for years and men just see them as a pair of boobs, constantly saying stuff like it's a disgrace the way men always show their nipples in public and yet women always hide theirs away and how they're mostly censored in magazines too. Feminists fought so hard so that they could be seen as more than just that.

What's that you say??
Feminists have changed their mind??
Saying now that men were the reason female nipples were taboo??
You're taking the p***!! That's not possible!!
Even feminists couldn't twist objectification into female bodily oppression.

"As long as men are allowed to be topless in public, women should have the same constitutional right. Or else, men should have to wear something to hide their chests"

Eh, I guess they can.

"Equal topless rights for all".

You have my vote.

GoTopless.org (NSFW, or eh.. libraries and things).

The Peanut

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

Would you prefer a society where a husband is allowed rape & abuse his wife with no repercussions ?.
You must be enjoying ISIS recent successes so.

How in the name of God have you drawn that conclusion from my posts?
I sampled some parts of your op and said that they did not stop in the 50's. I then said good for the other poster that he did not know any cases amongst his peers. Where did this ludicrous assumption come from?

DeadHand

My name is URL wrote: »

That's just bullcrap tbh.

Why?

Shiraz 4.99

The Peanut wrote: »

How in the name of God have you drawn that conclusion from my posts?
I sampled some parts of your op and said that they did not stop in the 50's. I then said good for the other poster that he did not know any cases amongst his peers. Where did this ludicrous assumption come from?

You're correct, I must of had another poster in mind, I've deleted my response on page 1.

cletus van damme

I'm not sure what the OPs point is .

while all these things did happen and while now we have laws to protect women this idea that hoards of male ireland was running about like dribbling eejits baiting and raping womenfolk is utter bull****.

But laws evolve over time the idea that an immature state will have all the answers during a volitile time is asking a bit much to be frank.

Society has changed and women are more independant which is a positive thing but the sense of morality doesn't change.
Most men never laid a finger on their wives and looked down with contempt on those that.

I think there is a misguided distortion of older ireland as some hellhole in a rush to cast off the power of the church. I support a secular state but no need to make up things about the past either.

Anyway during the 1950 etc...were the women in other nations living in some utopia denied to the womenfolk here?

geret

Did you ever think what it would be like to be a 97-year-old nun, Father?

CrabRevolution

DeadHand wrote: »

Ireland is a historical oddity in that the population generally enjoyed less personal freedom after gaining independence.

IN 1922, every woman in Ireland over 21 could vote. Meanwhile in 1922 in the UK women had to be at least 30 and own a certain amount of property before they could vote.

What freedom did these women lose on independence? The freedom from having to make excuses about not voting?

The USA declared independence from the Crown in the 1770s, within 30 years of this slave trading was abolished in the British Empire, and where did it continue for nearly a hundred years? The newly independent USA of course. So much for new personal freedoms.

How many countries are you basing this on too? The vast majority of countries which gained independence from a foreign power are in Africa and Asia, the majority of them have been going backwards ever since.

For what its worth, I'd think being an atheist feminist anywhere was probably difficult in the 50s.

Shenshen

My name is URL wrote: »

Kind of a breeze compared to what catholics faced between 1649 & 1653 really

Why compare 60 years ago with 400 years ago?

Grayson

CrabRevolution wrote: »

IN 1922, every woman in Ireland over 21 could vote. Meanwhile in 1922 in the UK women had to be at least 30 and own a certain amount of property before they could vote.

What freedom did these women lose on independence? The freedom from having to make excuses about not voting?

How many countries are you basing this on? The vast majority of countries which gained independence from a foreign power are in Africa and Asia, the majority of them have been going backwards ever since.

For what its worth, I'd think being an atheist feminist anywhere was probably difficult in the 50s.

but the church in Ireland got more power. Irish society became more conservative despite getting independance.

(to be fair, we do need to mention Constance Markievicz when we mention Womens suffrage in Ireland. At least we managed to vote in the first female MP even if it too decades to replicate the event)

Timberrrrrrrr

Chance The Fapper wrote: »

Dunno about you, but none of the lads I know rape their wives, or slap them for that matter

Because it's the kind of thing they talk about over a few pints on a Sunday.

Shenshen

cletus van damme wrote: »

Anyway during the 1950 etc...were the women in other nations living in some utopia denied to the womenfolk here?

Can't speak for anywhere else, but the German Grundgestetz (essentially their constitution, created and ratified in May 1949) has as it's 3rd article : "Männer und Frauen sind gleichberechtigt" - "Men and women have equal rights".

Took them until the late 50s to adjust the code of law to live up to that, though.

KungPao

Weren't jonnies and gayness illegal up until the 90s or something? Crazy stuff.

catallus

I'd be interested to know how any feminist would like to be called a "housewife".

Not a great title.

osarusan

Imagine the frustration being married to her, wha?

KungPao

catallus wrote: »

I'd be interested to know how any feminist would like to be called a "housewife".

Not a great title.

"Homemaker" now isn't it? Or "Stay-at-home mom"...

geret

KungPao wrote: »

"Homemaker" now isn't it? Or "Stay-at-home mom"...

domestic engineer

Bafucin

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

John Charles McQuaid denying you tampons, never mind contraception.
Doing a good 5 decades every night with the family, never mentioning your doubts.
No point resisting the husbands advances even if you weren't in the mood.
Those few slaps you took for talking back, no point bringing it up with authority.
The Gardaí wouldn't listen & the priest would tell you to go back to being a dutiful wife.

.

Ah but there'd be the ride!



Yes women had it tough. Magdalene laundries and Mother and baby homes etc....awful time.

Shiraz 4.99

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

No point resisting the husbands advances even if you weren't in the mood.
Those few slaps you took for talking back, no point bringing it up with authority.

To be fair to the husbands of the time, I'm sure most of them weren't interested in either slapping/beating, or raping their wives.

KungPao

geret wrote: »

domestic engineer

Domicile Technician.

DeadHand

CrabRevolution wrote: »

IN 1922, every woman in Ireland over 21 could vote. Meanwhile in 1922 in the UK women had to be at least 30 and own a certain amount of property before they could vote.

What freedom did these women lose on independence? The freedom from having to make excuses about not voting?

The USA declared independence from the Crown in the 1770s, within 30 years of this slave trading was abolished in the British Empire, and where did it continue for nearly a hundred years? The newly independent USA of course. So much for new personal freedoms.

How many countries are you basing this on too? The vast majority of countries which gained independence from a foreign power are in Africa and Asia, the majority of them have been going backwards ever since.

For what its worth, I'd think being an atheist feminist anywhere was probably difficult in the 50s.

While there were no drastic or sudden changes in the average person's level of liberty on the eve of independence in this country, the Catholic Church were allowed to gain a foothold in our new constitution and subsequent law making that limited personal freedoms, particularly those of women, down the line and would eventually see us fall well behind our nearest neighbours on issues of personal freedom, sexual liberty and equality.

Censorship was the most immediate and obvious loss of personal freedom. The new state, under the watchful eye of their clerical moral guardians, set about gleefully banning and, in some cases, literally burning unacceptable publications. Ireland was by no means unique in having legal censorship but our form of censorship was exceptional in it's virulence, fundamentalism and clerical steering.

Freedoms were delayed in this country as a fledgling state turned to a dominant Church for moral guidance and financial/institutional support. This in turn gave the Church influence over law making in this country for decades allowing them to enshrine Catholic dogma in our laws. We have lagged embarrassingly behind other first world countries on issues of personal freedom since independence.

The countries I was basing my comparison on were European countries who gained independence around the same time as Ireland (Hungary, Finland, Czechoslovakia, Poland, etc) without submitting to the same levels of religious influence on laws relating to personal freedoms.

padd b1975

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

John Charles McQuaid denying you tampons, never mind contraception.
Doing a good 5 decades every night with the family, never mentioning your doubts.
No point resisting the husbands advances even if you weren't in the mood.
Those few slaps you took for talking back, no point bringing it up with authority.
The Gardaí wouldn't listen & the priest would tell you to go back to being a dutiful wife.

*Gets misty eyed*

DeadHand

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

John Charles McQuaid denying you tampons, never mind contraception.

Used he appear personally and whip them off/out of you?

padd b1975

DeadHand wrote: »

Used he appear personally and whip them off you?

The randy auld fox!!

CrabRevolution

DeadHand wrote: »

While there were no drastic or sudden changes in the average person's level of liberty on the eve of independence in this country, the Catholic Church were allowed to gain a foothold in our new constitution and subsequent law making that limited personal freedoms, particularly those of women, down the line and would eventually see us fall well behind our nearest neighbours on issues of personal freedom, sexual liberty and equality.

Censorship was the most immediate and obvious loss of personal freedom. The new state, under the watchful eye of their clerical moral guardians, set about gleefully banning and, in some cases, literally burning unacceptable publications. Ireland was by no means unique in having legal censorship but our form of censorship was exceptional in it's virulence, fundamentalism and clerical steering.

Freedoms were delayed in this country as a fledgling state turned to a dominant Church for moral guidance and financial/institutional support. This in turn gave the Church influence over law making in this country for decades allowing them to enshrine Catholic dogma in our laws. We have lagged embarrassingly behind other first world countries on issues of personal freedom since independence.

The countries I was basing my comparison on were European countries who gained independence around the same time as Ireland (Hungary, Finland, Czechoslovakia, Poland, etc) without submitting to the same levels of religious influence on laws relating to personal freedoms.

Hungary is probably a bad example considering it was a dictatorship from the 20's till the 90's. Before WW2 it became more and more fascist and anti semitic, banning Jews from universities and putting limits on their representation in jobs. It even sided with Germany in the war, then after the war it became a communist dictatorship.

Poland was more democratic at first, but slid into a more and more authoritarian and despotic government before the war as well, persecuting Jews, other minorities and opposition parties.

In fact by the time WW2 rolled around, Ireland was one of only about 11 democracies in Europe. Czechoslovakia was the only democracy left in central and eastern Europe.

Ireland wasnt perfect, but it was a lot lot better than many of the alternatives in Europe. It had fair, free elections and afforded many rights other countries at the time didnt. Spain was a dictatorship till the late 70s, but I've never heard any of this held against these countries, as it might paint Ireland in a better light in comparison, which is a big no no here.

topper75

Bring back the Calor Kosangas Housewife of the year.

Women were happy then as evidenced by this photo.

mickoftheglens

Atheists, you need to part take in all the ice bucket challenges as you can in this realm because you are going to burn in hell.