The Henshaw 15/13 debate

connachta

Don't want to influence your opinion!

Neil3030

Total waste to be signing Aki and Muliania to then play Henshaw at FB imo. 13 for me. (Though I think I may have voted 15 by accident - my bad).

Podge_irl

I think he has to play 13 this season but I'm not convinced that that is his best position.

thinklinkl

Joe Schmidt thinks he is a better 13.. good enough of me

connemara man

I'd play him at 13 he had a good appearances there last year. Connacht have other options at 15 but short in the Centre in comparison

connachta

Arguments for full back :



1) McSharry is a quality player and can't be used with a Aki/henshaw pair
2) Aki has a 13 profile when you see him play
3) Henshaw might well target R.Kearney spot as much as O'Driscoll spot. Only 20, still very young to force him to play 13 just for an immediate (and unlikely) selection for the RWC
4) Fitzgerald and Olding are promising solution for centre if fit
5) Schimdt hasn't really chosen yet, and won't risk himself to use a post-teenager with 1 or 2 caps against big nations right now in RWC

thinklinkl

connachta wrote: »

Arguments for full back :



1) McSharry is a quality player and can't be used with a Aki/henshaw pair
2) Aki has a 13 profile when you see him play
3) Henshaw might well target R.Kearney spot as much as O'Driscoll spot. Only 20, still very young to force him to play 13 just for an immediate (and unlikely) selection for the RWC
4) Fitzgerald and Olding are promising solution for centre if fit
5) Schimdt hasn't really chosen yet, and won't risk himself to use a post-teenager with 1 or 2 caps against big nations right now in RWC

He can target 15 but he isnt as good as either payne or kearney.

bilston

I haven't seen enough of him to make a judgement, but what I have seen suggests that he has he physical tools for the midfield. So my question is what is his skillset like?

Just from an Irish perspective I don't see a huge queue of alternative options to Kearney at 15, although Jared Payne impending addition to the squad might change that.

AngeGal

thinklinkl wrote: »

He can target 15 but he isnt as good as either payne or kearney.

Obviously not as good at the moment but those are two serious players in the peak of their careers. Just over two years ago, Henshaw was playing Connacht Schools Rugby. If he was left at 15, I think he has the potential to reach their level.

This is a moot point anyway as he will be moved to 13 this season I'd say.

Tox56

connachta wrote: »

Arguments for full back :



1) McSharry is a quality player and can't be used with a Aki/henshaw pair
2) Aki has a 13 profile when you see him play
3) Henshaw might well target R.Kearney spot as much as O'Driscoll spot. Only 20, still very young to force him to play 13 just for an immediate (and unlikely) selection for the RWC
4) Fitzgerald and Olding are promising solution for centre if fit
5) Schimdt hasn't really chosen yet, and won't risk himself to use a post-teenager with 1 or 2 caps against big nations right now in RWC

What makes you think him playing 13 for the World Cup is so unlikely?

As for #5 Schmidt has name dropped Henshaw frequently when talking about the 13 jersey and trusted him as the 13 replacement against Australia last year with very little time at 13 under his belt. If anything Joe's opinion on him is a very good reason for him to play him at 13, Schmidt clearly rates him there

S12b

connachta wrote: »

Arguments for full back :



1) McSharry is a quality player and can't be used with a Aki/henshaw pair
2) Aki has a 13 profile when you see him play
3) Henshaw might well target R.Kearney spot as much as O'Driscoll spot. Only 20, still very young to force him to play 13 just for an immediate (and unlikely) selection for the RWC
4) Fitzgerald and Olding are promising solution for centre if fit
5) Schimdt hasn't really chosen yet, and won't risk himself to use a post-teenager with 1 or 2 caps against big nations right now in RWC

The national team needs a 13 immediately whereas we have two good fullback options in Kearney and Payne.....it's also worth remembering, contrary to what some people seem to think, he's not a fullback who's being thrown into a new position. He played 13 in school and only moved to fullback to cover Gavin Duffy when he was injured.

With regard to no.5 above, Schmidt hasn't had a chance to pick him....small matter of one Brian O'Driscoll occupying the jersey . He missed the tour to Argentina so November will tell us a lot.

All in all I think there is far more to be gained with him playing week in week out at 13 (which I'm sure he will).

Quick clip of what he brings......big power in contact and a lot of speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyftkIsUx24

b.gud

Outside of exceptional circumstances Henshaw will play 13. Around the time connacht signed Aki there was a lot of talk of Henshaw to Leinster and Lam had to publicly come out and say that Robbie was staying and Aki was signed as centre cover for, among other reasons, when Robbie was on international duty.

Also I think that having Henshaw at 13 is great because it gives Leader great opportunity to make 15 his own, which I think is good. Particularly towards the end of last season he was showing great potential there and Robbie was looking increasingly more comfortable at 13.

connachta

b.gud wrote: »

Outside of exceptional circumstances Henshaw will play 13. Around the time connacht signed Aki there was a lot of talk of Henshaw to Leinster and Lam had to publicly come out and say that Robbie was staying and Aki was signed as centre cover for, among other reasons, when Robbie was on international duty.

Also I think that having Henshaw at 13 is great because it gives Leader great opportunity to make 15 his own, which I think is good. Particularly towards the end of last season he was showing great potential there and Robbie was looking increasingly more comfortable at 13.

Aki will undoubtedly be in the 1st XV each week. Henshaw too, beside Ireland gametime
So question is who are we sacrifying?
Leader, Muliaina or McSharry?
I'd prefer keeping the last one for this season, I've the intuition he'll be back to his greatest level, which led him to Wolfounds, remember.. And Maybe more

Leader has 1 more year to proove his talent, Mils hasn't the physio to be a regular starter

former legend

connachta wrote: »

Aki will undoubtedly be in the 1st XV each week. Henshaw too, beside Ireland gametime
So question is who are we sacrifying?
Leader, Muliaina or McSharry?
I'd prefer keeping the last one for this season, I've the intuition he'll be back to his greatest level, which led him to Wolfounds, remember.. And Maybe more

Maybe I took you up wrong, but do you mean Muliaina will bench to accommodate McSharry?

connachta

former legend wrote: »

Maybe I took you up wrong, but do you mean Muliaina will bench to accommodate McSharry?

It sounds crazy but yes, as he won't do much more anyway, at 34, and after an elbow sugery.. Some people even see him just as a mentor, I won't go that far, in my opinion, he will play, but mostly as a bench impact player

former legend

connachta wrote: »

It sonds crazy but yes, as he won't do much more anyway, at 34, and after an elbow sugery.. Some people even see him just as a mentor, I won't go that far, in my opinion, he will play but most as a bench impact player

Yeah no one really knows if he's physically up to it, but if he's fit he'll play. He's probably the best paid player Connacht have, it's a poor return on investment if he's on the bench and maybe putting his arm around the young lads every now and again.

I have no idea which position is Henshaw's best but I'm pretty sure we'll see him at 13 mostly. And if he wants to go to the World Cup, it will have to be as a 13.

Swiwi.

Surely this is a no-brainer: Ireland has plenty of options at FB (Kearney, Payne, Earls & Zebo if really needed), and not much international-quality depth at all at 13. If anything, Henshaw needs to play every game this season for Connacht & Ireland at 13 to avoid an Achilles heel come RWC time. This coming from a man whose own country has stuffed up the 13 jersey not once not twice but 3 times!

vienne86

Number 13 please. I'll be honest and say that I have never played rugby so may not be the best judge. But he has played 13 for Ireland under Schmidt and surely Ireland is OK for full backs.

bilston

Swiwi. wrote: »

Surely this is a no-brainer: Ireland has plenty of options at FB (Kearney, Payne, Earls & Zebo if really needed), and not much international-quality depth at all at 13. If anything, Henshaw needs to play every game this season for Connacht & Ireland at 13 to avoid an Achilles heel come RWC time. This coming from a man whose own country has stuffed up the 13 jersey not once not twice but 3 times!

Two and potentially three of the four full backs you name play other positions though. I'm not convinced we have the depth at 15 although Payne will change that IF that's where he plays.

Anyway play Henshaw in his best position wherever that may be.

Buer

vienne86 wrote: »

Number 13 please. I'll be honest and say that I have never played rugby so may not be the best judge. But he has played 13 for Ireland under Schmidt and surely Ireland is OK for full backs.

It's a bit of a no brainer, I'd have thought. They've lost Griffin, Tonetti and Murphy. All of those guys could play 13. They've brought Layden and Leader into the senior squad and signed MM. All of those guys can play 15.

I would have thought the shape of the squad being assembled would have already indicated where he'll be playing his rugby this season.

its_phil

connachta wrote: »

Leader has 1 more year to proove his talent, Mils hasn't the physio to be a regular starter

Leader is 21 and has more than a year to prove his talent. If you couldn't see his talent against Rob Kearney last year in the Sportsground last year, well I can only pity your outlook on young players.

bilston

its_phil wrote: »

Leader is 21 and has more than a year to prove his talent. If you couldn't see his talent against Rob Kearney last year in the Sportsground last year, well I can only pity your outlook on young players.

He scored a good try against Ulster at Ravenhill too. Looks a good player.

connachta

its_phil wrote: »

Leader is 21 and has more than a year to prove his talent. If you couldn't see his talent against Rob Kearney last year in the Sportsground last year, well I can only pity your outlook on young players.

Misunderstanding, I was just saying he can wait to be 22 to be a regular starter, and impose himself slowly for next season.

thomond2006

I know Muliaina can play across the backline but surely the plan when all are fit is Henshaw at 13 with MM at fullback.