Not looking for medical advice

Seanachai · 26-08-2014 8:49am #1

Hey, I might have a possible kidney problem and I've got an app with a private consultant that I'll have to pay for already. I was wondering if anybody knows if I were to cancel the app and just get a public referral through a GP would I be looking at a year or more of a wait?.

RobFowl · 26-08-2014 9:09am

Seanachai wrote: »

Hey, I might have a possible kidney problem and I've got an app with a private consultant that I'll have to pay for already. I was wondering if anybody knows if I were to cancel the app and just get a public referral through a GP would I be looking at a year or more of a wait?.

Waiting lists vary from place to place and depending on the severity/urgency of your problem.
Really something you should discuss with your own GP who will have a better idea of the waiting times where you live.

AmberAmber · 26-08-2014 10:45am

maybe try both ,, ask your GP to apply to the public list to see when a reply comes back if its sooner or later than your private appointment.
I got a private appointment this morning in the post for end of October at least its for 2014 , I had to read it 4 times to confirm to my self it was from the consultants private clinic.

few hours later now I was thinking to my self October is not realy that far away , been sick so long I feel like its January or some thing and not the end of August
sorry

Seanachai · 26-08-2014 10:56am

AmberAmber wrote: »

maybe try both ,, ask your GP to apply to the public list to see when a reply comes back if its sooner or later than your private appointment.
I got a private appointment this morning in the post for end of October at least its for 2014 , I had to read it 4 times to confirm to my self it was from the consultants private clinic.

When did your GP make the appointment?.

Gael23 · 26-08-2014 3:28pm

Its a massive variation between hospitals and also specialities but yes I would guess in any hospital you would be waiting at least a year.
I was waiting 6 weeks to see a consultant in his private clinic at WRH a few months ago. I also need to see anther consultant in Vincents private and it will have been 4 months of waiting when my appointment comes around.
I would either discuss this with your GP or ring the consultants secretary and she will be able to tell you how long the list is.

Seanachai · 27-08-2014 9:04am

ryanf1 wrote: »

Its a massive variation between hospitals and also specialities but yes I would guess in any hospital you would be waiting at least a year.
I was waiting 6 weeks to see a consultant in his private clinic at WRH a few months ago. I also need to see anther consultant in Vincents private and it will have been 4 months of waiting when my appointment comes around.
I would either discuss this with your GP or ring the consultants secretary and she will be able to tell you how long the list is.

I canceleld the private app, I'm going to try asking the secretary, the clinic doesn't open on Tuesdays. I might end up making another private app if it turns out to be a year, I don't think the problem can wait that long, I've left it on the long finger too long already.

Gael23 · 27-08-2014 6:34pm

Seanachai wrote: »

I canceleld the private app, I'm going to try asking the secretary, the clinic doesn't open on Tuesdays. I might end up making another private app if it turns out to be a year, I don't think the problem can wait that long, I've left it on the long finger too long already.

I would be thinking a year is a minimum you can expect. I always say in cases like this if you are in a position to go private then do so, I know full well there are many people out there that just cannot afford it but if you can then I think that's what you should do.

Seanachai · 28-08-2014 9:49am

I can afford the consultation assuming it's about €130 - €150 but then when you factor in the scans which could be €150 each it gets a bit tricky. I could wait until Dec with the public at the latest, I'll really have to sell it to the GP, I am actually in a bit of pain so maybe I'll get a priority app. I'll go to the GP book the public and also get a letter from him just in case it does turn out to be a year when the pink letter arrives in the post. I hear if you go to the A & E in Cuba they'll take care of you with the full checkup for free lol;).

Nonoperational · 01-09-2014 7:22pm

Well if it's genuinely acute, or gets that way, A&E is an option.

Seanachai · 02-09-2014 10:13am

Nonoperational wrote: »

Well if it's genuinely acute, or gets that way, A&E is an option.

The thought had crossed my mind, if I clear some time go to the A & E and I could prob get some scans. Still not guaranteed though, I could spend 20 hrs in a waiting room watching sky news only to be sent home with some painkillers:rolleyes:.

Gael23 · 02-09-2014 7:19pm

You can go through A&E but personally I wouldn't thing its right to do that unless you are too unwell to wait for your tests. Last person I know that went in that way was a cancer patient who died soon afterwards, before his appointment was scheduled to take place for treatment.
I also don't believe its right to use the public system on point of principle, if you are fortunate enough to be in a position to pay for the treatment you need then I would do so.
I recently needed an ultrasound scan and we were told it would be somewhere between 3 and 6 months on the medical card. I had it done in 5 days in a private clinic and got half the cost back form VHI

medicine12345 · 02-09-2014 7:56pm

ryanf1 wrote: »

I also don't believe its right to use the public system on point of principle, if you are fortunate enough to be in a position to pay for the treatment you need then I would do so.

Why not?? presuming he's a taxpayer hes paid for it and is entitled to it as much as any one else, even if he can afford to go private

Gael23 · 03-09-2014 7:58am

medicine12345 wrote: »

Why not?? presuming he's a taxpayer hes paid for it and is entitled to it as much as any one else, even if he can afford to go private

I cant argue with that but if I was unwell with something and I had the opportunity to get my problem sorted by paying for a private appointment then I would probably do that.

Seanachai · 03-09-2014 9:16am

ryanf1 wrote: »

You can go through A&E but personally I wouldn't thing its right to do that unless you are too unwell to wait for your tests. Last person I know that went in that way was a cancer patient who died soon afterwards, before his appointment was scheduled to take place for treatment.
I also don't believe its right to use the public system on point of principle, if you are fortunate enough to be in a position to pay for the treatment you need then I would do so.
I recently needed an ultrasound scan and we were told it would be somewhere between 3 and 6 months on the medical card. I had it done in 5 days in a private clinic and got half the cost back form VHI

I can't really afford to go private, I could pay the money but I'd be skint for the rest of the month which is a pretty miserable way to live. It's a gauntlet with GPs it's as if they're afraid of getting a bad rep by ordering too many scans and the HSE give them grief for it or something. From what I've read a CT scan is better for diagnosing problems in the abdomen, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they're afraid of being the boy who cried wolf or they get slagged off at the GP conference by the other boys.

Nonoperational · 04-09-2014 6:29pm

You wouldn't rush in with a CT scan. A good history and exam with an ultrasound would be the first step. CT abdomens have a relatively high radiation dose associated with them. Ultrasound has none.

Vorsprung · 04-09-2014 7:58pm

Seanachai wrote: »

I can't really afford to go private, I could pay the money but I'd be skint for the rest of the month which is a pretty miserable way to live. It's a gauntlet with GPs it's as if they're afraid of getting a bad rep by ordering too many scans and the HSE give them grief for it or something. From what I've read a CT scan is better for diagnosing problems in the abdomen, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they're afraid of being the boy who cried wolf or they get slagged off at the GP conference by the other boys.

GPs have enough issues getting access to phlebotomy, never mind CTs! Most GPs don't have access to urgent CT, and many don't have access to routine CTs. No issue getting private CTs.

Seanachai · 16-09-2014 3:31pm

Turns out the ultrasound appointment would not be until Feb/Mar next year, what the hell is the problem it is a lack of equipment/staff or both?. Cars and livestock get faster service than humans in this country, I have to pay €130 for a private scan now.

Miaireland · 16-09-2014 3:42pm

Firstly it will depend on the nature of your issue, how serious it it and the waiting lists in the area.

Your GP may not be able to refer you directly for a CT scan as many hospital do not except GP referrals for procedures/scans etc.

For example in my area I know that a GP cannot refer a patient for a public MRI, they have to refer the patient to an Orthopaedic Consultant who can then refer the patient for the MRI. The waiting list for the Orthopaedic is very long in my area.

Seanachai · 17-09-2014 9:01am

I'll just have to make some sacrifices and go private, I haven't got the patience to be waiting six months just to get a scan, especially if there's pain and it's on your mind for all that time. There must be people presenting with problems to GP's being put on waiting lists and ending up in A & E in awful states or having conditions worsen where six months makes a huge difference, maybe even the difference between life and death in the case of cancer.

I have a friend who had to go through two docs in the same surgery just to get a serum iron test done for haemochromatosis, the first GP said to him 'Sure there's nothing wrong with you, you're the picture of health!' ( this was without so much as a physical exam ), he had told the GP he had a family history of the condition. He eventually got a blood test after some begging and his Transferrin saturation came back at 57% and the GP wouldn't give him the serum iron test so he phoned back and said he wanted the female GP, she was a bit more accomodating but didn't know the range of percentages for HC and she eventually booked him in for the serum and gene tests. It shouldn't be a battle to get these tests.

This has also been my general experience of GP's, I've been to seven GP's since I've moved to Dublin ten years ago out of frustration. Telling you that there's nothing wrong with you because 'You're a young fella', if a mechanic took a look at car that had a banjaxed engine but the body was immaculate and said the car was grand you'd think they were mad. Why is it accepted for people?.

his_dudeness · 17-09-2014 11:12am

Seanachai wrote: »

Cars and livestock get faster service than humans in this country, I have to pay €130 for a private scan now.

Cars and livestock aren't all trying to use the one chronically underfunded and understaffed service.

Seanachai · 17-09-2014 12:01pm

his_dudeness wrote: »

Cars and livestock aren't all trying to use the one chronically underfunded and understaffed service.

I agree with you it is underfunded and understaffed, it's a shameful reflection of a country's priorities. It's also galling to know that wealthy people can get healthcare in Ireland that is on par with if not even better in some cases than anywhere else in the world. You could get your consultation, scans/tests and treatment in the space of a couple of months or less while the muggles have to wait months or even up to a year to even see a consultant. Then another six months just to get the scan that the consultant books, it's a ****ing joke!.

I'm completely behind the nurses and doctors and I realise that they're overworked to the point of illness themselves in some cases. I don't like Fine Gael but I hope that Leo Varadkar can make some sort of progress in improving the state of the health service.

Mrs OBumble · 17-09-2014 12:16pm

Seanachai wrote: »

This has also been my general experience of GP's, I've been to seven GP's since I've moved to Dublin ten years ago out of frustration. Telling you that there's nothing wrong with you because 'You're a young fella', if a mechanic took a look at car that had a banjaxed engine but the body was immaculate and said the car was grand you'd think they were mad. Why is it accepted for people?.

I haven't tried it my self, but I've been told that it's good to go to a Polish GP: to be allowed to work here they must have good English, and the phrase "Ahh, shure'n you're grand" isn't in their vocabulary.

(Yes, this could just be an urban legend ...)

Gael23 · 17-09-2014 3:26pm

I'm not surprised this has been the outcome. And in Dublin waiting lists seem to be longer. This isn't the forum to get into the politics of how the public system works but it is now bulging to the point where it can no longer serve its purpose.
The problems are in part lack of staff but also down to volume of people which is being increased due to the price of private health insurance.

RobFowl · 17-09-2014 9:57pm

Vorsprung wrote: »

GPs have enough issues getting access to phlebotomy, never mind CTs! Most GPs don't have access to urgent CT, and many don't have access to routine CTs. No issue getting private CTs.

Agree no GP's I'm aware of can refer for a CT scan directly on the public system.

ProfessorPlum · 18-09-2014 8:16am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I haven't tried it my self, but I've been told that it's good to go to a Polish GP: to be allowed to work here they must have good English, and the phrase "Ahh, shure'n you're grand" isn't in their vocabulary.

(Yes, this could just be an urban legend ...)

I've heard that GP's from Offaly are great, but like you I've absolutely no evidence to back up that statement. But, shire, it must be true.

Seanachai · 18-09-2014 1:59pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I haven't tried it my self, but I've been told that it's good to go to a Polish GP: to be allowed to work here they must have good English, and the phrase "Ahh, shure'n you're grand" isn't in their vocabulary.

(Yes, this could just be an urban legend ...)

I can only speak for the Polish GP in Phibsboro but she's got much better manners and listening skills than any of the other local GPS.

Seanachai · 18-09-2014 2:17pm

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

I've heard that GP's from Offaly are great, but like you I've absolutely no evidence to back up that statement. But, shire, it must be true.

I suppose you're right Prof I don't have documented signed and stamped video evidence and it's a bit incredulous that I might run into brick walls in the Irish health service. I mean it's not like it's a big issue in society at the moment. Maybe the Docs don't like me because I'm a culchie, or maybe Gandalf might give me some healing down at the shire:rolleyes:.

ProfessorPlum · 19-09-2014 11:38am

Seanachai wrote: »

I suppose you're right Prof I don't have documented signed and stamped video evidence and it's a bit incredulous that I might run into brick walls in the Irish health service. I mean it's not like it's a big issue in society at the moment. Maybe the Docs don't like me because I'm a culchie, or maybe Gandalf might give me some healing down at the shire:rolleyes:.

You're absolutely right. The health service is a shambles. But it's the same one that the Polish GPs here are working in. So the brick walls will be similar and the waiting times for US the same, and the inability to refer directly for CT and MRI the same. The Polish GPs are probably a little more pleasant because they're earning 5 times as much as they were at home and are relatively new to the system and haven't been ground down completely by it yet.
Maybe try Poland?

Seanachai · 19-09-2014 12:29pm

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

You're absolutely right. The health service is a shambles. But it's the same one that the Polish GPs here are working in. So the brick walls will be similar and the waiting times for US the same, and the inability to refer directly for CT and MRI the same. The Polish GPs are probably a little more pleasant because they're earning 5 times as much as they were at home and are relatively new to the system and haven't been ground down completely by it yet.
Maybe try Poland?

I get what you're saying but I still don't understand the reluctance amongst gp's to book certain blood tests or do them in their own clinic, do they get grief from the HSE about it?. It's like you have to show them how much you want it over three or four visits ( €50 - €60 a pop ) and then they give in and reach into the little drawer. I've spoken about this issue with family and friends and I've been hearing similar stories, people trying to get HC testing only to be told that they 'look fine' and there's no need to have tests. Another friend was suffering badly with a skin rash and the doc wouldn't even look at it and just gave him some steroid cream, it turned out that it was an allergy to a new washing powder.

It makes me wonder how many patients esp young men have presented to a GP with fatigue and depression only to be told that they're fine because they're young and look healthy. Some of the GP's I've visited, more so the male ones seem to have a 'buck up there young fella' kind of attitude. I'm also in agreement with the 'functional medicine' philosophy and there's a few docs in Dublin offering the service but you're talking €500 - €750 for a batch of tests.

What is Functional Medicine?

Functional medicine addresses the underlying causes of disease, using a systems-oriented approach and engaging both patient and practitioner in a therapeutic partnership. It is an evolution in the practice of medicine that better addresses the healthcare needs of the 21st century. By shifting the traditional disease-centered focus of medical practice to a more patient-centered approach, functional medicine addresses the whole person, not just an isolated set of symptoms. Functional medicine practitioners spend time with their patients, listening to their histories and looking at the interactions among genetic, environmental, and lifestyle factors that can influence long-term health and complex, chronic disease. In this way, functional medicine supports the unique expression of health and vitality for each individual.

Why Do We Need Functional Medicine?

Our society is experiencing a sharp increase in the number of people who suffer from complex, chronic diseases such as diabetes, heart disease, cancer, mental illness, and autoimmune disorders like rheumatoid arthritis.
The system of medicine practiced by most physicians is oriented toward acute care,the diagnosis and treatment of trauma or illness that is of short duration and in need of urgent care, such as appendicitis or a broken leg. Physicians apply specific, prescribed treatments such as drugs or surgery that aim to treat the immediate problem or symptom.
Unfortunately, the acute-care approach to medicine lacks the proper methodology and tools for preventing and treating complex, chronic disease. In most cases it does not take into account the unique genetic makeup of each individual or factors such as environmental exposures to toxins and the aspects of today’s lifestyle that have a direct influence on the rise in chronic disease in modern Western society.
There’s a huge gap between research and the way doctors practice.The gap between emerging research in basic sciences and integration into medical practice is enormous—as long as 50 years—particularly in the area of complex, chronic illness.
Most physicians are not adequately trained to assess the underlying causes of complex, chronic disease and to apply strategies such as nutrition, diet, and exercise to both treat and prevent these illnesses in their patients.

https://www.functionalmedicine.org/

his_dudeness · 19-09-2014 4:12pm

Seanachai wrote: »

By shifting the traditional disease-centered focus of medical practice to a more patient-centered approach, functional medicine addresses the whole person, not just an isolated set of symptoms. Functional medicine practitioners spend time with their patients, listening to their histories and looking at the interactions among genetic, environmental, and lifestyle factors that can influence long-term health and complex, chronic disease. In this way, functional medicine supports the unique expression of health and vitality for each individual.

Ah, so they go hunting for problems that may not be there, or may ever actually be a problem.

Medical tests are chosen on the basis that their result, either positive or negative, will help reduce the differential diagnoses of a patients problems.

Nonoperational · 20-09-2014 4:00pm

Seanachai wrote: »

I get what you're saying but I still don't understand the reluctance amongst gp's to book certain blood tests or do them in their own clinic, do they get grief from the HSE about it?. It's like you have to show them how much you want it over three or four visits ( €50 - €60 a pop ) and then they give in and reach into the little drawer. I've spoken about this issue with family and friends and I've been hearing similar stories, people trying to get HC testing only to be told that they 'look fine' and there's no need to have tests. Another friend was suffering badly with a skin rash and the doc wouldn't even look at it and just gave him some steroid cream, it turned out that it was an allergy to a new washing powder.

It makes me wonder how many patients esp young men have presented to a GP with fatigue and depression only to be told that they're fine because they're young and look healthy. Some of the GP's I've visited, more so the male ones seem to have a 'buck up there young fella' kind of attitude. I'm also in agreement with the 'functional medicine' philosophy and there's a few docs in Dublin offering the service but you're talking €500 - €750 for a batch of tests.

Tests should only be done if there's a reason to do them. It's bad medicine to just throw a battery of tests at a problem.

I don't believe for a second that the GP "didn't even look" at the skin rash, and anyhow, steroid cream sounds like a perfectly reasonable treatment for what you describe.

Seanachai · 07-10-2014 12:29pm

Nonoperational wrote: »

Tests should only be done if there's a reason to do them. It's bad medicine to just throw a battery of tests at a problem.

I don't believe for a second that the GP "didn't even look" at the skin rash, and anyhow, steroid cream sounds like a perfectly reasonable treatment for what you describe.

Not examining a rash is the least of the guys screw-ups, he was known as 'Dr death' in the town where he practised. When I visited him as a kid he used to talk to my da about the phone system or the flight sim on his new computer for most of the visit and then toss out a few sachets of some sort of a powder for ear infections.

He left/was kicked out of his clinic and people thought they'd seen the last of him until he showed up at a former patients door as the new care doc!. Seems it's not just dodgy priests we move around in Ireland.

The bottom line is there are people out there walking around with haemochromatosis and other conditions because GP's ( some not all ) are either too lazy or ignorant to investigate blood results. I've posted about my friend having to point out the ref values for iron studies to a GP ( the 2nd doctor in the same clinic ) and only with some insistence she googled the figures and then back-tracked and ordered the DNA test.

The functional medicine service may be a bit OTT and is catering for athletes and a more middle class group but at least it's thorough. It shouldn't be a battle with a GP's ego to get the tests you need especially if there is a family history.

Not looking for medical advice

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