Has owning EV changed your driving style?

axe2grind

I'd be surprised if it isn't a yes for everyone.

I've wondered about this on and off for a while but I passed a Leaf on the motorway a few days ago and it was the slowest vehicle! Of course one is not representative of all, but I couldn't help thinking that maximising range may be the motivation in driving relatively slow.

I've seen Mad_Lad here give cost comparisons between EV and ICE vehicles, but if the ICE vehicles were driven more efficiently, perhaps similar to the way many EVs are driven then their economy would be much better, reducing the cost.

toadfly

Day to day going in and out of work-no. I can make it easy enough on one charge so no need to. Longer journey yes as range is an issue but overall not really.

reboot

axe2grind wrote: »

I'd be surprised if it isn't a yes for everyone.

I've wondered about this on and off for a while but I passed a Leaf on the motorway a few days ago and it was the slowest vehicle! Of course one is not representative of all, but I couldn't help thinking that maximising range may be the motivation in driving relatively slow.

I've seen Mad_Lad here give cost comparisons between EV and ICE vehicles, but if the ICE vehicles were driven more efficiently, perhaps similar to the way many EVs are driven then their economy would be much better, reducing the cost.

My driving style seems to be much calmer,the Zoe is automatic,quiet and the fuel is free.It will actually charge the battery when I am driving at 50 mph and I often arrive with more miles available from the battery than when I left? Stats are 0 to 30 mph 4 secs, Top speed 85 mph, fast enough with tons of torque.

axe2grind

axe2grind wrote: »

I'd be surprised if it isn't a yes for everyone.

I've wondered about this on and off for a while but I passed a Leaf on the motorway a few days ago and it was the slowest vehicle! Of course one is not representative of all, but I couldn't help thinking that maximising range may be the motivation in driving relatively slow.

I've seen Mad_Lad here give cost comparisons between EV and ICE vehicles, but if the ICE vehicles were driven more efficiently, perhaps similar to the way many EVs are driven then their economy would be much better, reducing the cost.

No one buys a new car to save money and electric cars are no different, the difference here is the savings on fuel you can put towards repayments on an ev, also the savings on maintenance and motor tax, and possibly insurance. So it can make an ev a lot more affordable than it would, meaning you might be able to get a new car with the money you don't have to put towards petrol/diesel , maintenance and motor tax etc.

Y2KBOS86

Deleted User wrote: »

No one buys a new car to save money and electric cars are no different, the difference here is the savings on fuel you can put towards repayments on an ev, also the savings on maintenance and motor tax, and possibly insurance. So it can make an ev a lot more affordable than it would, meaning you might be able to get a new car with the money you don't have to put towards petrol/diesel , maintenance and motor tax etc.

OP is talking about driving style, not cost of ownership.

axe2grind

axe2grind wrote: »

I've seen Mad_Lad here give cost comparisons between EV and ICE vehicles, but if the ICE vehicles were driven more efficiently, perhaps similar to the way many EVs are driven then their economy would be much better, reducing the cost.

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

OP is talking about driving style, not cost of ownership.

He did bring up cost,

But to answer the first part, there is no doubt if you need to take the EV to the limit of it's range it will alter your driving style.

If you only do 40 miles a day maybe 50 and don;t need to fast charge I would say it won't matter how you drive.

ICE no matter how efficiently driven will still be much more expensive than EV.

Tigger

reboot wrote: »

My driving style seems to be much calmer,the Zoe is automatic,quiet and the fuel is free.It will actually charge the battery when I am driving at 50 mph and I often arrive with more miles available from the battery than when I left? Stats are 0 to 30 mph 4 secs, Top speed 85 mph, fast enough with tons of torque.

i'm sorry but that's not possible, if it was you could cruise round a test track at 50mph for infinity and so it would be a perpetual motion machine

reboot

reboot wrote: »

My driving style seems to be much calmer,the Zoe is automatic,quiet and the fuel is free.It will actually charge the battery when I am driving at 50 mph and I often arrive with more miles available from the battery than when I left? Stats are 0 to 30 mph 4 secs, Top speed 85 mph, fast enough with tons of torque.

Tigger wrote: »

i'm sorry but that's not possible, if it was you could cruise round a test track at 50mph for infinity and so it would be a perpetual motion machine

What happens here is the car's computer reports your range based on previous driving styles and adjusts accordingly as you're driving.

So on one trip you get 70 miles range another you can get 90 miles. It may report you'll get 80 miles range at the start either and you could end up with less if you drive very fast or aggressively.

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

What happens here is the car's computer reports your range based on previous driving styles and adjusts accordingly as you're driving.

So on one trip you get 70 miles range another you can get 90 miles. It may report you'll get 80 miles range at the start either and you could end up with less if you drive very fast or aggressively.

Agree with that, I guess I have saved around £1500 in fuel over the year, and no road tax ,with £5k off the Zoe cost, and a free home charger.

Yes compared to an ice at the same cost you do save a lot of money, and the ev will usually be much higher equipped.

reboot

Tigger wrote: »

i'm sorry but that's not possible, if it was you could cruise round a test track at 50mph for infinity and so it would be a perpetual motion machine

The motor/generator in the Zoe will charge the battery, even with my foot on the pedal and speed at 50mph.I see this regularly going from Castlewellan to Newcastle. The road at this location is going slightly downhill.hope this helps, thanks.

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes compared to an ice at the same cost you do save a lot of money, and the ev will usually be much higher equipped.

Agreed, and automatic,heat pump /AC,cruise,keyless entry, reversing camera,free home charger, (UK),bluetooth,and very quiet relaxed experience.

Not forgetting remote activation of heat and ac or timer control of heat and ac.

This easily costs 1000 and more on an ice car for a parking heater and you don't get remote activation of ac with an ice car.

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

Not forgetting remote activation of heat and ac or timer control of heat and ac.

This easily costs 1000 and more on an ice car for a parking heater and you don't get remote activation of ac with an ice car.

Not forgetting its around half the price of he leaf and charges twice as fast, (In AC mode of course),and to think I went ahead and bought one not knowing the half of it!

reboot

reboot wrote: »

Not forgetting its around half the price of he leaf and charges twice as fast, (In AC mode of course),and to think I went ahead and bought one not knowing the half of it!

The zoe isn't half the price of the Leaf, not down this end of the country and I doubt up the North. And you still have to pay for the battery so over 3 years the difference is quiet small. And the Leaf imo is a far nicer car and a good bit more power.

The AC charger is fantastic but in reality the DC chargers would meet my needs, as it stands now with my current work commute I wouldn't need to charge at all and even if I end up back in Dublin again there are no AC chargers on the N7/M9 apart from the fast charger at Nass of course, but that's of no advantage because it's DC also and it has CCS.

If I were to depend on the 22 Kw chargers on a daily commute on the way home then I wouldn't be driving the Zoe as it would still take too long to charge @22 Kw.

On other longer trips we could still take the Prius or just use the DC chargers and bring the granny cable for the hotel/B&B etc.

The Zoe AC charger is still excellent but it's something that in Reality I could live without.

I am extremely annoyed that Renault will decide if they install a new battery or repair the old one, or install a reconditioned battery with a capacity of just 70% or above. No way I want to rent a battery for a reconditioned pile of crap !

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

The zoe isn't half the price of the Leaf, not down this end of the country and I doubt up the North. And you still have to pay for the battery so over 3 years the difference is quiet small. And the Leaf imo is a far nicer car and a good bit more power.

The AC charger is fantastic but in reality the DC chargers would meet my needs, as it stands now with my current work commute I wouldn't need to charge at all and even if I end up back in Dublin again there are no AC chargers on the N7/M9 apart from the fast charger at Nass of course, but that's of no advantage because it's DC also and it has CCS.

If I were to depend on the 22 Kw chargers on a daily commute on the way home then I wouldn't be driving the Zoe as it would still take too long to charge @22 Kw.

On other longer trips we could still take the Prius or just use the DC chargers and bring the granny cable for the hotel/B&B etc.

The Zoe AC charger is still excellent but it's something that in Reality I could live without.

I am extremely annoyed that Renault will decide if they install a new battery or repair the old one, or install a reconditioned battery with a capacity of just 70% or above. No way I want to rent a battery for a reconditioned pile of crap !

Of course everyone's requirements are different and its a very fast moving project, with talk of new Zoe battery and very fast charge, think I've read 8 mins? Am not a fan of fast charge as you know. Strangely my battery does not appear to have reduced the capacity after 8K miles, but I take all the display setting with a pince of salt, it even appears to have an extended range by 5 miles one and a half years on? myrenaultzoe.com

reboot

reboot wrote: »

Of course everyone's requirements are different and its a very fast moving project, with talk of new Zoe battery and very fast charge, think I've read 8 mins? Am not a fan of fast charge as you know. Strangely my battery does not appear to have reduced the capacity after 8K miles, but I take all the display setting with a pince of salt, it even appears to have an extended range by 5 miles one and a half years on? myrenaultzoe.com

The zoe fast charges from 0-80% in 30 mins, more or less the same as the Leaf.

Unless you take the car daily to the limit of range you won't really notice a reduction in battery capacity.

At some stage it will become obvious that you'll need to fast charge more often to get to your destination and you will notice that you don;t get as many miles per charge as you'll notice in winter you don't get as much range. It's when it becomes too inconvenient is when it;s reached end of life for you be that 80% or 70% capacity or 50%.

Dexter1979

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The zoe fast charges from 0-80% in 30 mins, more or less the same as the Leaf.

Unless you take the car daily to the limit of range you won't really notice a reduction in battery capacity.

At some stage it will become obvious that you'll need to fast charge more often to get to your destination and you will notice that you don;t get as many miles per charge as you'll notice in winter you don't get as much range. It's when it becomes too inconvenient is when it;s reached end of life for you be that 80% or 70% capacity or 50%.

Zoe will reach 80% in about 25 minutes and 99% in about 35 minutes when charging at 43kW. Much faster than a Leaf. Couple that with the 80% in an hour on the several hundred 22kW points and I can't see how a Leaf can beat that. From a charging perspective anyway. Leaf is a different car but you spend a lot more time charging if the Chademo is broken. In Zoe I would move to the next 22kW point and be only delayed by 45 minutes instead of potentially hours.

Well for starters I certainly wouldn't be charging past 80% on the fast charger until it's known that fast charging isn't getting the Zoe battery hot like the Leaf. A high state of charge on a hot battery is one sure way to accelerate degradation. I wouldn't be taking a chance that Renault will install a brand new battery because their terms and conditions on their battery lease states quiet clearly that is at their discression what they do with the battery, repair, replace with a repaired battery or install a new one. A repaired or replaced battery will only have around 70% I certainly won't pay thousands to lease a battery with those kinds of conditions.

The Zoe charger is certainly outstanding but it wouldn't convince me to buy one.

The Leaf changes pretty fast to 80% and to be honest you're never going to arrive at the fast charger with 0% in the battery.

Dexter1979

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't be taking a chance that Renault will install a brand new battery because their terms and conditions on their battery lease states quiet clearly that is at their discression what they do with the battery, repair, replace with a repaired battery or install a new one. A repaired or replaced battery will only have around 70% I certainly won't pay thousands to lease a battery with those kinds of conditions.

Yes, it's going to be years before this may be tested. I don't think the battery degrades as quick. My Renault dealer didn't seem to suggest it would be repaired as they don't have the facilities here. But time will tell I suppose. I am also hopeful they may upgrade the battery when Zoe 2 comes out and my lease contract is up. Again, time will tell.

Deleted User wrote: »

The Zoe charger is certainly outstanding but it wouldn't convince me to buy one.

I love the charger. Where I live there are very few chademo chargers and I have already seen people having to wait at the FCP's because there is another Leaf there. The SCP's are mostly empty (or ICE'd but that is a different problem). I will be testing my Zoe on a few of these points but I expect them all to be 22kW. Also found a good few 22kW points near my parents in Holland. Will be driving Zoe there next year. Will be driving through the UK. Most Ecotricity sites have 22kW points as well as 43kW points so you have a backup on site. Trip will be great!

Deleted User wrote: »

The Leaf changes pretty fast to 80% and to be honest you're never going to arrive at the fast charger with 0% in the battery.

This is true for all EV's. Strangely enough the Zoe doesn't seem to slow down the charging after 80%. Only slows it down towards the 95% mark. The last 1% takes a long time but it does cell balancing at this stage. Most Zoe owners charge to 99% on the road.

Thing about buying an EV is that they all have drawbacks. It's just finding one with the drawbacks that you can live with.

My driving style has really change when I got the Prius. I am sure it will change again when I get Zoe. I am convinced that having the Prius will improve my range in the Zoe as I am already familiar with hypermiling and other range extending techniques.

reboot

Dexter1979 wrote: »

Yes, it's going to be years before this may be tested. I don't think the battery degrades as quick. My Renault dealer didn't seem to suggest it would be repaired as they don't have the facilities here. But time will tell I suppose. I am also hopeful they may upgrade the battery when Zoe 2 comes out and my lease contract is up. Again, time will tell.



I love the charger. Where I live there are very few chademo chargers and I have already seen people having to wait at the FCP's because there is another Leaf there. The SCP's are mostly empty (or ICE'd but that is a different problem). I will be testing my Zoe on a few of these points but I expect them all to be 22kW. Also found a good few 22kW points near my parents in Holland. Will be driving Zoe there next year. Will be driving through the UK. Most Ecotricity sites have 22kW points as well as 43kW points so you have a backup on site. Trip will be great!



This is true for all EV's. Strangely enough the Zoe doesn't seem to slow down the charging after 80%. Only slows it down towards the 95% mark. The last 1% takes a long time but it does cell balancing at this stage. Most Zoe owners charge to 99% on the road.

Thing about buying an EV is that they all have drawbacks. It's just finding one with the drawbacks that you can live with.

My driving style has really change when I got the Prius. I am sure it will change again when I get Zoe. I am convinced that having the Prius will improve my range in the Zoe as I am already familiar with hypermiling and other range extending techniques.

Not sure if I mentioned that its very easy to un clip the rear seat back, if you are not always carrying passengers. The seat back weight a lot and the whole back is then available for lots of clutter.

Dexter1979

reboot wrote: »

Not sure if I mentioned that its very easy to un clip the rear seat back, if you are not always carrying passengers. The seat back weight a lot and the whole back is then available for lots of clutter.

Yes, I heard this was possible but I have yet to go looking for this clip. Also found people online who made a underfloor storage compartment using a variety of different materials. Planning on trying this as well if I have a few hours to spare.

Owning an EV has changed my driving style. I like the "Direct Consumption" setting on Zoe's dashboard so you can try and minimise the amount of energy spend maintaining your speed. It reduced my kWh/100km somewhat but the reduced temperature and hills/road surface/weather aren't making it easy to drive economical.

B9K9

If you are the one that simply must tear away all of the time, you will only have two thirds of the range achievable compared with moderate driving. As a real world example. let's take a trip south dublin to wexford town, google maps says 100 mins iirc, takes me 120 mins in the leaf. That's doing 105ish on the motorway and 85ish on the coast road from gorey on. You decision as to whether its acceptable depends on how thirsty you other car is, and also the relative relaxed comfort of the EV. I find it makes taking the 28-30mpg sports car a horrendous waste of money.

reboot

B9K9 wrote: »

If you are the one that simply must tear away all of the time, you will only have two thirds of the range achievable compared with moderate driving. As a real world example. let's take a trip south dublin to wexford town, google maps says 100 mins iirc, takes me 120 mins in the leaf. That's doing 105ish on the motorway and 85ish on the coast road from gorey on. You decision as to whether its acceptable depends on how thirsty you other car is, and also the relative relaxed comfort of the EV. I find it makes taking the 28-30mpg sports car a horrendous waste of money.

I agree regarding your sports car comments, and have mixed feeling regarding the Tesla. While its nice to see them develop, and indeed lead the technology, I suppose there is room for both two ton sports EV and Tw1zzy