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History of Free Travel in Ireland

  • 25-08-2014 5:31am
    #1
    Lyaiera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭


    Hey, I don't often read this forum but a question came up. I searched for the answer but I couldn't find any thread about it but you seemed like really informed and cool people so I thought I'd ask. I Googled as well but couldn't find anything with my search terms (maybe you guys know valid search terms that bring you to transport based answers?)


    Is there a history of free travel in Ireland anywhere? It seems like such an interesting political move, as socially progressive as things like the NHS in the UK.


Comments

  • #2
    Export
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 429 ✭✭Export


    I believe it was Haughey who introduced it?


  • #3
    Export
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 429 ✭✭Export


    Can't post links as I'm new.

    If you google Charles Haughey free travel, you'll find a few links.


  • #4
    Lyaiera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    I mostly found obituaries that mention "free travel" in passing. A section of a book discussing Haughey as part of a look at European Politicians. A book discussing Haughey's impact on an Irish artist. And the best reference which is from Haughey's own site. Nothing on the evolution, politics or impact of free travel through the decades.


  • #5
    Export
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 429 ✭✭Export


    Oh right - I didn't know what you were looking for specifically!


  • #6
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Lyaiera wrote: »
    Is there a history of free travel in Ireland anywhere? It seems like such an interesting political move, as socially progressive as things like the NHS in the UK.

    For it's time,the decision to introduce Free Travel was a HUGE leap in terms of Social Awareness in Europe,never mind Ireland.

    Very few other countries in the World made the huge leap of faith in providing such a support (For VERY specific Social Reasons) to its elderly.

    Whilst CJ Haughey still recieves virtually all of the kudos,the reality is that the scheme would have required a vast amount of input from several Interdependent Departments at the time,as well as the highest managerial levels in CIE.

    Only when the finished plan was complete could it be brought to the Minister of the Day and the Cabinet for approval.

    I would suggest that CJ Haughey was far and away the most astute of Politicians when it came to reading the tea-leaves for potential benefits to his then relatively fresh political career.

    Very little hard and fast information is available today without substantial time and effort,but I would recommend this report from 2000 as a good starting point.

    Section 3 is the relevant one.

    http://www.tcd.ie/policy-institute/assets/pdf/BP5_Quinn_Free_Schemes.pdf


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • #7
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,888 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    It was an inspired no-brainer politically, seeing as a substantial number of beneficiaries are going to be serious voters.

    Before that, think you only got reduced rate fares (but not outright free travel) for Blind Pension/War of Independance veterans etc.
    Think RIC/Gardai may have gotten free travel, with some sort of warrant or permission from their superiors, if using the railway in the course of their duties?


  • #8
    Copyerselveson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 299 ✭✭Copyerselveson


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    It was an inspired no-brainer politically, seeing as a substantial number of beneficiaries are going to be serious voters.

    Before that, think you only got reduced rate fares (but not outright free travel) for Blind Pension/War of Independance veterans etc.
    Think RIC/Gardai may have gotten free travel, with some sort of warrant or permission from their superiors, if using the railway in the course of their duties?

    Inspired or not, the scheme as it stands is now way open to abuse. Pensioners taking the train for free rides while fare paying passengers stand at peak times and the transport operators only get a small fraction of the cost back.


  • #9
    Export
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 429 ✭✭Export


    I vaguely remember they were threatening to take the free travel off pensioners a number of years ago and there was uproar?


  • #10
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,888 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Copyerselveson wrote: »
    Inspired or not, the scheme as it stands is now way open to abuse. Pensioners taking the train for free rides while fare paying passengers stand at peak times and the transport operators only get a small fraction of the cost back.

    And that is exactly the fallout that we're left with now. Of course no-one is going to touch the issue with a 40' barge pole. They're more afraid of the Grey Army than any bunch of protesting workers, rights activists, students or farmers.


  • #11
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    And that is exactly the fallout that we're left with now. Of course no-one is going to touch the issue with a 40' barge pole. They're more afraid of the Grey Army than any bunch of protesting workers, rights activists, students or farmers.

    The hard fact is that the elderly vote, while over on politics.ie some of the most vociferous web warriors boasted that they didn't.


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  • #12
    Lyaiera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Very little hard and fast information is available today without substantial time and effort,but I would recommend this report from 2000 as a good starting point.

    Section 3 is the relevant one.

    http://www.tcd.ie/policy-institute/assets/pdf/BP5_Quinn_Free_Schemes.pdf

    It's interesting, thanks for that. I'd love to see a proper study on the societal effect of free travel. There has to have been studies done on the effects of public transport in general, but the free travel aspect is an interesting element of it.


  • #13
    Export
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 429 ✭✭Export


    Lyaiera wrote: »
    It's interesting, thanks for that. I'd love to see a proper study on the societal effect of free travel. There has to have been studies done on the effects of public transport in general, but the free travel aspect is an interesting element of it.

    Ask Joan Burton for her latest report.


  • #14
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    The FTP was introduced in 1967 and CJ Haughey is known to be the minister that pushed it through.

    At the same time a FTP was issued to veterans of the War of Independence. This was a specific card and seperate from the Social welfare arrangement which relied on producing your pension book when using public transport. The veterans FTP was funded by the department of defense and from the summer of 1968 their spouses could also avail of a FTP and subsequently when they became widowed. There was no age restriction on it. I don't know when the veterans pass was phased out. From July 1968 to May 1970 the Dept of Defense payment to CIE was (in old pounds) 45, 491, 15s, 9d.

    Over the years the FTP for pensioners was expanded to allow travel within peak hours and then rolled out to include people on disability (open to correction on this) The scheme originally and for many years operated by presenting your pension book.

    A lot of the anger towards the FTP today may be driven by its use by those termed "disabled". Its such a broad term under the guidelines and open to serious abuse.


  • #15
    BuffyBot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,924 ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    I'd remind folks now, as already I see drift, that the topic is the *history*of the scheme and not the current state or future state. Keep it on topic


  • #16
    coylemj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,650 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Whilst CJ Haughey still recieves virtually all of the kudos,the reality is that the scheme would have required a vast amount of input from several Interdependent Departments at the time,as well as the highest managerial levels in CIE.

    Only when the finished plan was complete could it be brought to the Minister of the Day and the Cabinet for approval.

    I wouldn't be so sure about that, especially given the way CJH worked. If it had been planned the way you described i.e. been bounced around various departments and CIE management, it would have leaked out and Charlie wouldn't have gotten any of the credit since it would then be 'old news' by the time it was officially announced.

    In 1966, the Minister for Education Donogh O'Malley announced free secondary education without any reference to the cabinet. As a result, he gets the credit in the history books, ditto Charlie Haughey and free travel.

    In more recent times, Charlie McCreevey in one of his budgets announced that they were going to give medical cards to all over 70s with no means tests. It later transpired that in order to prevent the announcement being leaked, there was no agreement in place with the Irish Medical Organisation so when the doctors sat down to negotiate their fees to treat what had previously been private (cash) patients, they did so from a position of strength given that the scheme was a done deal so the taxpayer got screwed, thanks to shrewd negotiations conducted by the IMO leader, Dr. James Reilly who in a twist of irony later became Minister for Health.

    Remember we're talking about politics here and the priority when announcing goodies is that the minister doing the announcing gets all the credit, rather than that it's planned and costed properly.


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