Small private aircraft

owenc

One or two small private planes do have a range near 2,000 miles.

I know this might sound daft but would it be possible to fly from the extreme west of Ireland to the extreme east of Canada? Looking on the map the shortest distance is 1800 miles.

I heard the Mooney aircraft can do 2700 miles with an extra tank.. Would this aircraft be able to cross in 8 hours?

arubex

Even light aircraft with the theoretical range to make the Atlantic hop generally route via Keflavik and / or Narsarsuaq because of the weather conditions at low-level. Using those two breaks the journey into 700-mile sectors which is much more tolerable when being bashed around at 9000 ft.

Even if the aircraft was pressurized and could fly above most weather then it would be preferred to stay close to diversion airfields, so it's unlikely that they'd hop directly from Shannon to Gander.

FWVT

owenc wrote: »

One or two small private planes do have a range near 2,000 miles.

I know this might sound daft but would it be possible to fly from the extreme west of Ireland to the extreme west of Canada? Looking on the map the shortest distance is 1800 miles.

I heard the Mooney aircraft can do 2700 miles with an extra tank.. Would this aircraft be able to cross in 8 hours?

You mean the extreme EAST of Canada?

owenc

arubex wrote: »

Even light aircraft with the theoretical range to make the Atlantic hop generally route via Keflavik and / or Narsarsuaq because of the weather conditions at low-level. Using those two breaks the journey into 700-mile sectors which is much more tolerable when being bashed around at 9000 ft.

Even if the aircraft was pressurized and could fly above most weather then it would be preferred to stay close to diversion airfields, so it's unlikely that they'd hop directly from Shannon to Gander.

I know. I would never do this even if the plane had a range of 10,000 miles as I am aware of the turbulence.

I am just saying could the plane really actually make it? Or is the 2,000 miles range just nonsense?

Bsal

These ranges that the manufacturers give are usually with nil wind, the pilot would have to crunch the numbers in the POH to get an operational range depending on the weather on the day. I was watching Dangerous flights on discovery last week they are flying a Cirrus SR22 from Scotland back to Las Vegas so far they have flown from Scotland to Reykjavik and Reykjavik to Narsarsuaq at FL240 so taking it in shorter hops. Flying for 5hrs or so in an unpressurised light aircraft wouldn't be too comfortable and they have to use supplemental oxygen for most of it.

Tenger

owenc wrote: »

I know. I would never do this even if the plane had a range of 10,000 miles as I am aware of the turbulence.

I am just saying could the plane really actually make it? Or is the 2,000 miles range just nonsense?

If the aircraft manufacturer states it has a range of 2000 miles then it has a range of 2000 miles. But as with car MPG values this will always be a little on the favourable side, as in 2000 miles with 1 person and no luggage/freight carried, with no headwind and no fuel burning course deviations.

smurfjed

2700 miles with an extra tank.. Would this aircraft be able to cross in 8 hours?

Is there any light aircraft that operates at that sort of speed?

owenc

Yes that Mooney apparently does 280 mph.

Pat Dunne

owenc wrote: »

I heard the Mooney aircraft can do 2700 miles with an extra tank.. Would this aircraft be able to cross in 8 hours?

Of course it could, doing an average of 337.5mph :rolleyes:

FWVT

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Of course it could, doing an average of 337.5mph :rolleyes:

To be fair he was talking about a trip of 1800 miles.

smurfjed

MOONEY OVATION 3
TOP SPEED:197 KTAS
RATE OF CLIMB AT SEA LEVEL (MAX. WT.):1,300 FPM
LONG RANGE - STD. FUEL (WITH RES.):1,860 NM
LONG RANGE- OPTIONAL TANKS (WITH RES.):2,400 NM

Not going to achieve your 8 hour trip target.... so what else is there?

Pilatus PC-12
Cruise speed: 500 km/h (312.5 mph/270 KTAS/280 KTAS @ 20000 ft (PC-12NG))
Range 0 passenger: 4,149 km (2,593 mi) (2,239 nm)
Range 9 passenger: 2,804 km (1,753 mi) (1,513 nm)

Pat Dunne

owenc wrote: »

Yes that Mooney apparently does 280 mph.

I think you should think this through a little further.

The optimum economy cursing speed of a Mooney is significently well below 280 mph.

As your journey is East / West and the prevailing weather in the North Atlantic is West / East your fuel economy is going to be further impaired even on ideal days and as we all know they seldom exist.

Bear in mind, a direct route is often not the most convenient or the safest one to take.

owenc

smurfjed wrote: »

Not going to achieve your 8 hour trip target.... so what else is there?

So maybe 7 hours on the second one..

Irish Steve

There are other issues as well.

crew Bladder capacity is one that needs to be borne in mind. A long flight sitting in one seat without any real chance to move around can be hard.

If there are 2 people on board, then it's slightly easier to get to things like snacks, top up drinks etc, if you're on your own, then it all has to be very carefully planned to ensure that you can reach ALL the things you may need during what could be a very long flight.

If you've not flown (as PIC) a long flight before, then you need to do one that's not under pressure of endurance, fuel, etc, to make sure that you can cope with what's required, I've flown some > 4 hour sectors in a light single, and by the time you've finished, you will know you've done it, especially if there's not a lot of automation (like autopilot) on the aircraft, and if you end up having to fly any length of time IFR, that's even more the case, long periods IFR without an adequate autopilot is not fun whatsoever. That may mean boring a hole in the air for several circuits around an area to get the experience of a long trip, with options for diversion and or landing within a reasonable distance.

Even things like temperature, warm/cold clothing, are factors to bear in mind, you may leave one place at +15, and arrive a few hours later at another that's -10, if you're not prepared, that can come as a nasty shock.

You need to be very sure of the aircraft, it's one thing to fly regularly for an hour or two, with stops for things like fuel, and other checks, but has the aircraft got the capability of flying for 7 or 8 hours without landing and topping up the oil? Most light singles lose some oil within the first few minutes of take off, and then the oil usage stabilises, but it's as well to do a longer flight before committing to a flight where the alternates may be several hours apart, just to make sure that it's capable of doing it.

Weather, a critical factor on long flights. Airspeed and ground speed can be 2 very different things, even at low level, one trip back from Brussels a long time ago, over Dover, the wind was knocking my airspeed of 160 down to a ground speed of 105, and that was at 2500 Ft, which made a significant difference to the total flight time. Many light aircraft are not certified for flight into icing conditions, which can severely reduce the levels you can operate at, and the times of year that long flights can be made. Even light icing can have pretty dramatic effects on airspeed, anything more in a light aircraft is likely to be a no go area.

smurfjed

After flying the atlantic during the winter with limited fuel due to the winds and weather, i truthfully don't think that i would be brave enough to fly a single engine aircraft across in a single hop. I might attempt the spruce route in the summer

owenc

I agree. 1800 miles doesn't seem like a long distance but when you actually get on a plane and fly you realise that it is actually extremely far!

Just ocean for miles and miles and hours and hours.

pepe the prawn

owenc wrote: »

Yes that Mooney apparently does 280 mph.

You sure about that? I'd have thought it'd be all out at around 200kts