Should the State fund some vets' bills?

conorh91

Now ordinarily I would say that animals' rights, if they exist, rank as inferior to humans' rights.

Most of us can probably tolerate some animal suffering, or at least tolerate it until a higher threshold than we could with human suffering.

But if an animal is injured, and in pain, as a result of the stupidity of a human, who should be responsible for its care?

Inspired by this, which I saw tonight on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=725104894217426&set=a.162146353846619.38791.100001537667381&type=1&theater

Tonight driving from ballyfermot to ringsend just on the N4, a horse came running out from a field onto the motorway.

We just missed it by minutes but a couple weren't so lucky, the horse smashed off their car an eneded in the middle of the road. She had broken front an back legs an gashes on her head, straight away I jumped out of the car to try comfort the horse.

I rang the garda 3times to say what happened an they didn't care, until I rang the 4th time to say she was blocking the traffic so cars couldnt get by.they finally came, while I was on the dspca's website looking for an emergency number which there wasnt any!!

An the numbers that were there wasnt answering!! A blonde lady that has horses came running up saying she was after getting a call(she's well known in the area) an only for her she rang a vet to come out,

I sat with that horse for a full hour trying to comfort her waiting on help to arrive, I think its sick that a innocent animal can be treated like this that there is no numbers to ring like 999, and the dspca should be ashamed of themselves!! So basically they can only help animals when they're open??

This was one of the worst nights of my life having to sit there with a helpless horse while she had to be put out of her pain by the vet, looking into her eyes then having to was horrible!!

I just think somethin really should be done about this that the situation could be delt with alot quicker, id like to say fairplay to the 2ladys an fella that stayed. I'll be leaving this status on every raido page hopping something can be done about it. Feel free to share,

pablomakaveli

I would have assumed the owner would be responsible in most cases.

While animal charities covering the rest.

DrGreenthumb

conorh91 wrote: »

But if an animal is injured, and in pain, as a result of the stupidity of a human, who should be responsible for its care?

Explain how this issue is "the stupidity of a human"
is it the drivers fault for not crashing into the barrier to avoid the horse,
or it it the owners fault the horse escaped the field, do we even know there was a owner of the horse

conorh91

DrGreenthumb wrote: »

or it it the owners fault the horse escaped the field, do we even know there was a owner of the horse

I explained that my question was inspired by this example.

It does not necessarily mean that, in this example, someone committed a stupid act.

I am asking about occasions where human stupidity is in issue. Especially where the stupid person is the primary person responsible for an animal's welfare.

JonEBGud

It happens every day of the week.
Hedgehogs, Rabbits, Frogs, Deer,
Slugs, Snails.
Where do you draw the line?

Luke92

JonEBGud wrote: »

It happens every day of the week.
Hedgehogs, Rabbits, Frogs, Deer,
Slugs, Snails.
Where do you draw the line?

Those poor slugs and snails! Where is the pity for them!

Deranged96

JonEBGud wrote: »

It happens every day of the week.
Hedgehogs, Rabbits, Frogs, Deer,
Slugs, Snails.
Where do you draw the line?

Invertabrates

conorh91

JonEBGud wrote: »

It happens every day of the week.
Hedgehogs, Rabbits, Frogs, Deer,
Slugs, Snails.
Where do you draw the line?

Domesticated animals, I would suggest.

Feral animals, by definition, are not yet capable of being truly domesticated, and so human control (therefore, duty of care) over them is diminished.

athtrasna

OP the state has enough trouble looking after the humans in this country. It's hard to stomach the amount of money they spend on some of them. In no way should the taxpayer pick up the tab for animals too.

JonEBGud

conorh91 wrote: »

Domesticated animals, I would suggest.

Feral animals, by definition, are not yet capable of being truly domesticated, and so human control (therefore, duty of care) over them is diminished.

But why domesticated animals?
Hare coursing?
Bull fighting?
Bull baiting?
Cock fighting?
Etc. . .

Deranged96

conorh91 wrote: »

Domesticated animals, I would suggest.

Feral animals, by definition, are not yet capable of being truly domesticated, and so human control (therefore, duty of care) over them is diminished.

Aren't we all stewards of the Irish environment, and should thus took every measure to care for our wild animals? i don't see why we should care less about the suffering of a wild animal, as long as the damage done was true human fault.

Say you saw a swan with plastic wrapped around its leg or a leveret on the side of the road in danger of being hit by a car

athtrasna

conorh91 wrote: »

Domesticated animals, I would suggest.

Feral animals, by definition, are not yet capable of being truly domesticated, and so human control (therefore, duty of care) over them is diminished.

Domesticated animals have owners. Owners are responsible for them and any associated costs!

conorh91

Deranged96 wrote: »

Aren't we all stewards of the Irish environment, and should thus took every measure to care for our wild animals? i don't see why we should care less about the suffering of a wild animal, as long as the damage done was true human fault.

Feral animals are reactive to the whims and impulses of their wild nature.

We can accept this 'disorder' as inherent, even when it comes up against human development; human expansion being, in itself, inherent to our nature.

Domesticated animals, on the other hand, are a series of species which, as a population, we have chosen to introduce to our civilization.

As such, where an owner cannot be located in an emergency, it is arguable that there is a social obligation to provide emergency care to ease that animal's suffering.

athtrasna wrote: »

Domesticated animals have owners. Owners are responsible for them and any associated costs!

Yes, but it's sometimes difficult to locate an owner when an animal is bleeding, and in pain, at the roadside.

athtrasna

conorh91 wrote: »

As such, where an owner cannot be located in an emergency, it is arguable that there is a social obligation to provide emergency care to ease that animal's suffering.


Yes, but it's sometimes difficult to locate an owner when an animal is bleeding, and in pain, at the roadside.

I see no logical reason the taxpayer should foot the bill.

conorh91

JonEBGud wrote: »

But why domesticated animals?
Hare coursing?
Bull fighting?
Bull baiting?
Cock fighting?
Etc. . .

Poultry and cattle are domesticated creatures…

I can see an argument for including animals that are captive, like hares during a coursing meeting. Although, in those circumstances, it will usually be easy to identify a person with responsibility for the welfare of the animal.

JonEBGud

Most domesticated animals are chipped.
If not, the owners are irresponsible.

All homing pigeons are ringed.I.M.O.

So why should anyone think a vet should
look after an injured animal if there is no
chance of a return to it's habitat?

Kovu

What would you count as stupidity of a human?

Of course it's the story above is not very nice to hear about, but that horse is emaciated in the photo. Was he being cared for correctly? I can only presume he wasn't. So should the state pay for the treatment of an animal that isn't being cared for in a reasonable manner?

In this case, with broken legs there was no other option. But lets say it was just beat up and bruised, maybe a few deep gashes. How much would the horse cost to treat, €400? Tetanus shot, sedation, stitches, antibiotics, boarding and feed while being treated. Then given back to someone who didn't seem to care about it in the first place. Where would the line be drawn for what would essentially be a medical card for animals?

How many people have cats/dogs giving birth even though there are neutering schemes available for very little money. People aren't even using the money off schemes that are available to them!

And DSPCA emergency is 24hours, or so it says online anyway.

policarp

It would be great if every person and
every animal was looked after.
But we all can't afford V.H.I.

Timmyctc

conorh91 wrote: »

Yes, but it's sometimes difficult to locate an owner when an animal is bleeding, and in pain, at the roadside.

You said your post was using the above as an example and the question wasn't exclusive to such. But if the question revolves around the apparent need to establish an emergency style service for animals injured outside of vet hours and in situations where their owner can not be found it seems a bit too specific and really not worth the cost that would be incurred.

livemusic4life

I hate to sound cold but the irish government hasn't made pain relief a right for their own citizens so they certainly aren't going to for animals

conorh91

Timmyctc wrote: »

if the question revolves around the apparent need to establish an emergency style service for animals injured outside of vet hours and in situations where their owner can not be found it seems a bit too specific and really not worth the cost that would be incurred.

Almost all areas of the country are served by out-of-hours veterinary care services.

The issue is not the availability of services; the issue is paying the bill.

As a general rule, the person making the telephone call is responsible for paying the veterinary surgeon.

This can raise difficulties where an animal is struck by moving traffic on the public road.

I am merely suggesting that the State might meet this cost, although this cost may be recoverable, if an owner is subsequently located.

cerastes

.Kovu. wrote: »

What would you count as stupidity of a human?

Of course it's the story above is not very nice to hear about, but that horse is emaciated in the photo. Was he being cared for correctly? I can only presume he wasn't. So should the state pay for the treatment of an animal that isn't being cared for in a reasonable manner?

In this case, with broken legs there was no other option. But lets say it was just beat up and bruised, maybe a few deep gashes. How much would the horse cost to treat, €400? Tetanus shot, sedation, stitches, antibiotics, boarding and feed while being treated. Then given back to someone who didn't seem to care about it in the first place. Where would the line be drawn for what would essentially be a medical card for animals?

How many people have cats/dogs giving birth even though there are neutering schemes available for very little money. People aren't even using the money off schemes that are available to them!

And DSPCA emergency is 24hours, or so it says online anyway.

what schemes? whats very little money?
I tried numerous times to contact the Blue cross about getting a cat nuetered, a cat which we'd taken in. Either they were uncontactable (ok I understand they are a charity and have limited resources in all of this) but only managed to get through a couple of times, where I was told there was a long list and there was no point going on it or that there was a long list and Id be called back. 2 years later, havent heard back about that, I tried to attend a mobile clinic but was turned away as i couldnt provide evidence of a SW payment, I dont get one as I was means tested on my partners income and receive no weekly stipend or receipt for such from the SW.
Id love to hear where I can avail of this money off schemes (honestly), although it may be too late as I think that cat has sowed his legacy already, I think it has grandchildren now that look like him going around.

I even offered to try trap and bring the feral/strays to an organisation to neuter so they could be released on return , but they declined and said it would all have to be at my own expense, not neutering, not even equipment for carrying or trapping them.

Not sure to whom or where these schemes are available, I heard they were going on, but never came across them.