Correct Roundabout Procedure

SimonClarke

Hi all, based on the diagram below, If I am in the position indicated by the "blue X" and I intend to take the first exit indicated by the "green X", and a car has just entered the roundabout from the entrance to my right, which is in the right hand lane and indicating right, is it safe for me to proceed to the first exit?

Assume that there are no other cars on our side of the roundabout..

JB101

No the car on the roundabout has priority and could very well change their mind or be indicating inadvertently

ProudDUB

JB101 wrote: »

No the car on the roundabout has priority and could very well change their mind or be indicating inadvertently

Agreed.

You have no idea what that other car is going to do. In a perfect world, he is in the correct lane for the exit that he is taking and & is indicating his intentions accordingly. But in the real world of Irish drivers on Irish roundabouts, you just never know what idiots people will do. :rolleyes:

SimonClarke

So legally, I have to wait?

cerastes

SimonClarke wrote: »

So legally, I have to wait?

why say legally? makes it sound like you are looking for a way out of yielding right of way?
You're required to yield right of way to traffic on a roundabout, its a penalty point offence to not yield. Ive seen people move into the nearside lane ahead of traffic already on a roundabout when they oncoming traffic is in the offside lane and going straight opposed to taking a right turn in your example.

Are you learning to drive?

SimonClarke

That's just your perception.. "Legally" was the most accurate keyword I could think of. I play by the book, hence why I asked the question. I was looking for clarification based on the fact that the lane I intended to use was not being used at the time I wanted to use it.

Craftylee

Agreed with the guys above - if that person was taking the 2nd exit they *should* be in the left lane, however it's always best to go when it's clear and don't assume which exit anyone is taking

Arbiter of Good Taste

I would have to say a huge proportion of people on Irish roads don't know how to use roundabouts. In the OPs situation, I would just wait until the other car has passed me before I get on the roundabout - regardless of the legal answer.

Unfortunately, you cant trust what anyone will do.

ProudDUB

SimonClarke wrote: »

That's just your perception.. "Legally" was the most accurate keyword I could think of. I play by the book, hence why I asked the question. I was looking for clarification based on the fact that the lane I intended to use was not being used at the time I wanted to use it.

It is not just his perception. The rules of the road, traffic bylaws (or whatever you want to call them) clearly state that traffic waiting to enter a roundabout, must give way to traffic that is already on the roundabout. They don't give any special dispensation to drivers wanting to use just one lane of the roundabout, if it happens to be free at the time.

SimonClarke

ProudDUB wrote: »

It is not just his perception. The rules of the road, traffic bylaws (or whatever you want to call them) clearly state that traffic waiting to enter a roundabout, must give way to traffic that is already on the roundabout. They don't give any special dispensation to drivers wanting to use just one lane of the roundabout, if it happens to be free at the time.

My "perception" comment was referring to the following suggestion "cerastes" made:

cerastes wrote: »

why say legally? makes it sound like you are looking for a way out of yielding right of way?

I don't challenge the rules of the road, this is an honest thread looking for clarification.

I can't tell you why

It is safer to wait. That should be all the clarification you need ( or wanted ).

bardcom

If an accident occurred whereby you pulled onto the roundabout and your car was struck by the vehicle already on the roundabout, you would be mostly liable.

SimonClarke

I can't tell you why wrote: »

It is safer to wait. That should be all the clarification you need ( or wanted ).

Based on my degree of perception and knowledge of the rules of the road, I asked to get exactly what I needed/wanted.

Why just repeat what others have said and then add a smart comment...

iamtony

The other car legally has right of way and if they decided to take the second exit(go straight on) you would legally be liable if they hit you.
In traffic law indicators don't mean anything. Ignore them and wait for the junction to be clear.
Although you are supposed to be in the left lane if your taking the first or second exit this isn't law and the rules state to choose this lane if safe to do so but it doesn't say it's the law.

doolox

....or the magic roundabout in Swindon.

I can't tell you why

SimonClarke wrote: »

Based on my degree of perception and knowledge of the rules of the road, I asked to get exactly what I needed/wanted.

Why just repeat what others have said and then add a smart comment...

Because I was criticising their attack on you, which I consider to be unwarrented. Sorry if it came across that I was criticising you. The point I was making is that they could simply have said it is safer to wait rather then repeatedly pick at your choice of a word.

SimonClarke

Appreciate that, thanks..

My vocabulary is not advanced so I think I leave myself open to it sometimes..

Anyway thank you all for the replies, I have what I need..

cerastes

doolox wrote: »

....or the magic roundabout in Swindon.

Id love to have a go on that,
just not in my own car for starts
and am fully covered
Om sure its a doddle when you get used to it, like 6 or 8 walkinstown roundabouts together. Anyway, you're only ever negotiating one rounadabout/on one roundabout at any one time, unless you include the overall roundabout, then 2 max.

I can't tell you why wrote: »

Because I was criticising their attack on you, which I consider to be unwarrented. Sorry if it came across that I was criticising you. The point I was making is that they could simply have said it is safer to wait rather then repeatedly pick at your choice of a word.

Im not criticising, I did interpret the use of "legally" part as even if its in the rules of the road, then they will be pointed as an intepretation and if its not in some SI, then it reads to me like, saying what can I get away with.

Also it really depends on the roundabout, its more than possible to approach and exit on either near or offside lane (in a two lanes approaching, on and exiting a roundabout, AND where there are no specific signs or road markings saying a lane must be used only for right or left turning).
Its practical and safe for cars to be in both lanes and going straight (second exit) at the same time, its not practical to try do it if there is a long vehicle where the back end takes a shorter path than the wheels near the front (articulated vehicle) or they may need the full width to negotiate a right turn also, let alone going straight.

SimonClarke

Well the reason I had asked anyways was because i was a passenger in a car with a foreign national recently and he did enter the roundabout in this situation because where he comes from, if you **** up the lane entry on a roundabout then you have to go around it again so you can exit your lane and the roundabout the correct way..

As it happened, the guy who was on the right hand lane indicating to turn right for exit 3 HAD made a **** up and blasted his horn at us because he wanted to exit the roundabout at our exit, (exit 2 for him))

It annoyed me that we got beeped so harshly when the other guy was in the wrong as well, being that he didn't know how roundabouts work..

That's why I came here for clarification..

I have since informed him of this clarification and he will adjust his management of roundabouts for the future..

ForestFire

I would say that you leagally have to wait as it is "right of way".

If you procedded and collided with the car on the roundabout, who is to say that he came from the entrance to your right or further back on the roundabout and was then leagally chaging lanes to exit.

How would you prove where he entered??

SimonClarke

ForestFire wrote: »

How would you prove where he entered??

The same way he couldn't prove where he entered..

Anyway this question has been answered, lets not start repeating ourselves, thanks for the replies again everyone..

cerastes

SimonClarke wrote: »

Well the reason I had asked anyways was because i was a passenger in a car with a foreign national recently and he did enter the roundabout in this situation because where he comes from, if you **** up the lane entry on a roundabout then you have to go around it again so you can exit your lane and the roundabout the correct way..

As it happened, the guy who was on the right hand lane indicating to turn right for exit 3 HAD made a **** up and blasted his horn at us because he wanted to exit the roundabout at our exit, (exit 2 for him))

It annoyed me that we got beeped so harshly when the other guy was in the wrong as well, being that he didn't know how roundabouts work..

That's why I came here for clarification..

I have since informed him of this clarification and he will adjust his management of roundabouts for the future..

First bolded part,
Do it again? how is that possible? unless you return to the road that led to the roundabout. I have to guess you mean lane exit, off the roundabout when you say entry.
I'll interpet this as meaning he and you mean, that if you miss the exit then you have to go all the way around the roundabout,
well, that is the same here! how else would you do it????
Ok Ive come across one idiot that reversed around, but thats not allowed, so going around as many times as it takes, although it should only take 1 try or a second if something unusual occured.

Second bolded part,
Well, he had his indicator on wrong, but that was all, he had the right of way, if you pulled out in front of him, he still had the right of way, in fact if he was turning right across you, you would have had to wait longer and pay more heed.
This still doesnt sound right? was this in Ireland? Is it a "standard" 4 lane entry/exit to a roundabout scenario as described by RSA drawings? If you were at his exit 2, then you were coming from opposite directions, you thought he wanted to cross you to his exit 3, then you would not or should not have been blocking each other, which way were you going??? he should have passed by you without crossing your path, either way, he was on the roundabout and had the right of way.

By all means pay attention to the indicator, but that is all it is, an indication and it may be in error, stuck on, even unknown to the driver, maybe the LED in the display just went or the relay isnt clicking in the car or they are deaf, or the sun is shining in such a way that its diminishing the light from the LED. Im sure there are an endless ream of reasons, but they were on the roundabout, If I thought someone was going to pull out in front of me, Id blast them too, as some people arent paying attention or make conclusions of what others will do when they just dont know for sure.

Once someone asked me when I had very little driving experience, see this guy coming down the road here with his right indicator on, what is he going to do?
I answered, "turn right", the person asking me the question corrected me, "No, you dont know what they are going to do, all the indicator on means is, that they have their indicator on" It was a good lesson to learn the easy way, rather than the hard way.

SimonClarke

cerastes wrote: »

First bolded part,
Do it again? how is that possible? unless you return to the road that led to the roundabout. I have to guess you mean lane exit, off the roundabout when you say entry.
I'll interpet this as meaning he and you mean, that if you miss the exit then you have to go all the way around the roundabout,
well, that is the same here! how else would you do it????
Ok Ive come across one idiot that reversed around, but thats not allowed, so going around as many times as it takes, although it should only take 1 try or a second if something unusual occured.

Second bolded part,
Well, he had his indicator on wrong, but that was all, he had the right of way, if you pulled out in front of him, he still had the right of way, in fact if he was turning right across you, you would have had to wait longer and pay more heed.
This still doesnt sound right? was this in Ireland? Is it a "standard" 4 lane entry/exit to a roundabout scenario as described by RSA drawings? If you were at his exit 2, then you were coming from opposite directions, you thought he wanted to cross you to his exit 3, then you would not or should not have been blocking each other, which way were you going??? he should have passed by you without crossing your path, either way, he was on the roundabout and had the right of way.

By all means pay attention to the indicator, but that is all it is, an indication and it may be in error, stuck on, even unknown to the driver, maybe the LED in the display just went or the relay isnt clicking in the car or they are deaf, or the sun is shining in such a way that its diminishing the light from the LED. Im sure there are an endless ream of reasons, but they were on the roundabout, If I thought someone was going to pull out in front of me, Id blast them too, as some people arent paying attention or make conclusions of what others will do when they just dont know for sure.

Once someone asked me when I had very little driving experience, see this guy coming down the road here with his right indicator on, what is he going to do?
I answered, "turn right", the person asking me the question corrected me, "No, you dont know what they are going to do, all the indicator on means is, that they have their indicator on" It was a good lesson to learn the easy way, rather than the hard way.

I feel like we are talking in different languages here! It is now starting to annoy me.. You are running scenarios based on what you think I have said but I have not warranted any of these!


I said:

if you **** up the lane entry on a roundabout then you have to go around it again so you can exit your lane and the roundabout the correct way..


How on earth did you have to GUESS what I meant here.. If you "mess up" the lane entry, based on the topic and parameters we are talking about as CLEARLY specified in the image in post number ONE, then this implies the other driver has entered in the right hand lane for the first or second exit instead of the left hand lane..

If this is the case, the driver SHOULD, as I said, go around the roundabout again so that he can exit the lane in the manner that adheres to the rules of the road when dealing with roundabouts..

Where was the confusion?



As for your second question.. Again, LOOK at the image i posted in the first post of this thread.. This is what the discussion is based on..

My foreign national friend and I saw the driver entering the roundabout from the entrance to our right, using the right hand lane and indicating right.. Where my friend comes from, this is safe grounds for him to proceed in the left lane to the first exit on his left, as every other indication that the other road user has given implies that it is safe to do this. Because if the other road user did make a **** up by entering in the incorrect lane, he will correct it in a way that will not affect us, i.e go around the roundabout again..

Obviously, as has already been confirmed, my friend was incorrect to do so and I have informed him of this for future situations..

Now for feck sake can we end the thread because a simple clarifying question is turning into a bloody joke..

cerastes

SimonClarke wrote: »

I feel like we are talking in different languages here! It is now starting to annoy me.. You are running scenarios based on what you think I have said but I have not warranted any of these!


I said:

if you **** up the lane entry on a roundabout then you have to go around it again so you can exit your lane and the roundabout the correct way..


How on earth did you have to GUESS what I meant here.. If you "mess up" the lane entry, based on the topic and parameters we are talking about as CLEARLY specified in the image in post number ONE, then this implies the other driver has entered in the right hand lane for the first or second exit instead of the left hand lane..

If this is the case, the driver SHOULD, as I said, go around the roundabout again so that he can exit the lane in the manner that adheres to the rules of the road when dealing with roundabouts..

Where was the confusion?



As for your second question.. Again, LOOK at the image i posted in the first post of this thread.. This is what the discussion is based on..

My foreign national friend and I saw the driver entering the roundabout from the entrance to our right, using the right hand lane and indicating right.. Where my friend comes from, this is safe grounds for him to proceed in the left lane to the first exit on his left, as every other indication that the other road user has given implies that it is safe to do this. Because if the other road user did make a **** up by entering in the incorrect lane, he will correct it in a way that will not affect us, i.e go around the roundabout again..

Obviously, as has already been confirmed, my friend was incorrect to do so and I have informed him of this for future situations..

Now for feck sake can we end the thread because a simple clarifying question is turning into a bloody joke..

To be perfectly honest, I thought english was not your first language, I actually thought you were having difficulty communicating what you were saying, and I was trying to consider that.

Im not running scenarios, I replied to a thread where you said what exit another driver wanted to take and where you were. That seemed to be different to the original drawing so I thought you were talking about another example.
Also, just because they are in the offside lane of their two lanes, does not mean they "SHOULD" have to go around the roundabout, unless the road markings or other signs say they have to or the road layout has no where to go but right for the offside lane. According to the drawing in your OP, that is not the case.
Unless you can clear this up by putting a google map linking the roundabout, that might clear it uo a bit, but based on what you have said, it looks to me like you are wrong and still say what the other driver should have done.

I didnt realise you were still referring to the first drawing, but in that case unless there are those signs or road markings they can continue on straight from the offside lane they occupy, you are absolutely in the wrong, because the road isnt designed for their lane only to go right, they have two lanes which exit onto two lanes.

You still say the "SHOULD" but it doesnt look like it at all.
You SHOULDN'T have (or your friend) moved out when you did.
Even if they have no indicator on or everything on, you had no right of way to do what you did, I hope you can see what you did is wrong because I see people do that regularily from both the nearside and offside lane in two lane roundabouts.

I agree its a joke, but you dont seem to have accept you were wrong (google map excluded), and maybe because it hasnt gone your way you seem annoyed. I prefer if you dont get annoyed at me, I'm pointing out a glaring error, not attacking you.

It doesnt matter one iota whats done anywhere or everywhere else in the world, so if they are doing it some other way somewhere else fine, but unless we are all there, then that point is not relevant, Unless someone is driving there then those rules apply.
Here different and sometimes stupid ones apply but this seems pretty sraight forward to me.

SimonClarke

Again, feel like we are talking a different language.. The only reason i used the whole SHOULD thing was to explain the reason my friend entered the roundabout..


As for your comment about not wanting to accept that I'm wrong.....

SimonClarke wrote: »

That's why I came here for clarification..

I have since informed him of this clarification and he will adjust his management of roundabouts for the future..

SimonClarke wrote: »

Obviously, as has already been confirmed, my friend was incorrect to do so and I have informed him of this for future situations..

I don't know know why I am being treated like a child who refuses to accept a rule.. I accepted this rule earlier in the thread and have only had to say more because I was being misinterpreted..

I give up now though, you just come to the conclusions that you want because i now stop caring.

Again, thanks to the people who contributed to the thread and gave me the clarification I needed...