Good woman Chella

Goldenjohn

Blatant as it gets in my opinion. Please god let the LPGA not let this go...

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/choi-assessed-two-shot-penalty-wds-herself-instead/

Shocking that the co commentator defend her, unreal

SaveOurLyric

What a git. The walkout suggest she is a deliberate cheat rather than someone who doesnt know the rules (who could a pro golfer not know such a basic procedure she must do umpteen times every round she plays).
Ball must be placed directly behind the ball, and not to the side of angled from it.


However....I thought there had been some change since the Harrington incident about phone in rules infringements from the public ? Or was that only for the men's tours ?

cairny

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

What a git. The walkout suggest she is a deliberate cheat rather than someone who doesnt know the rules (who could a pro golfer not know such a basic procedure she must do umpteen times every round she plays).
Ball must be placed directly behind the ball, and not to the side of angled from it.


However....I thought there had been some change since the Harrington incident about phone in rules infringements from the public ? Or was that only for the men's tours ?

I think that's to do with HD cameras and the change was that there is no penalty if the movement would not be visible to the naked eye. No HD camera required here.

SaveOurLyric

And whatever about the movement, would she not have been done anyway on not marking correctly ? Or in addition to it. So should it have been a 4 shot penalty ?

PARlance

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

And whatever about the movement, would she not have been done anyway on not marking correctly ? Or in addition to it. So should it have been a 4 shot penalty ?

You can mark it anywhere you like as long as it goes back in the correct spot

Senna

On the video it looks like there was an indent, spike mark or something else between her ball and the hole, so she placed her ball on a different line to miss it. Cheating at its best.

SaveOurLyric

PARlance wrote: »

You can mark it anywhere you like as long as it goes back in the correct spot

20-1 - Lifting and Marking
The position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball-marker, a small coin or other similar object immediately behind the ball. If the ball-marker interferes with the play, stance or stroke of another player, it should be placed one or more clubhead-lengths to one side.
*PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 20-1, 20-2 or 20-3:
Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes.

Sure ? (The bold above is my own). Which I would take to mean if you mark to the side or anywhere else you are in breach of the rule and penalised.
But open to correction - it wouldnt be the first time I have come across a rule of golf where it seems clear in one section but different somewhere else in the rules.

ShivasIrons

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

20-1 - Lifting and Marking
The position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball-marker, a small coin or other similar object immediately behind the ball. If the ball-marker interferes with the play, stance or stroke of another player, it should be placed one or more clubhead-lengths to one side.
*PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 20-1, 20-2 or 20-3:
Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes.

Sure ? (The bold above is my own). Which I would take to mean if you mark to the side or anywhere else you are in breach of the rule and penalised.
But open to correction - it wouldnt be the first time I have come across a rule of golf where it seems clear in one section but different somewhere else in the rules.

The important word in the rule above is 'should' be marked. Should means it's a recommendation and not a requirement. If the rule stated 'must' then it's a requirement. As a result of the should the marker can be placed anywhere.

SnowDrifts

ShivasIrons wrote: »

The important word in the rule above is 'should' be marked. Should means it's a recommendation and not a requirement. If the rule stated 'must' then it's a requirement. As a result of the should the marker can be placed anywhere.

Correct - decision 20-1/19 if anyone wants to look it up.

Definitely a blatant move to try an re-position her ball in a more favourable position perhaps to avoid a spikemark. A cheat.

PARlance

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

20-1 - Lifting and Marking
The position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball-marker, a small coin or other similar object immediately behind the ball. If the ball-marker interferes with the play, stance or stroke of another player, it should be placed one or more clubhead-lengths to one side.
*PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 20-1, 20-2 or 20-3:
Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes.

Sure ? (The bold above is my own). Which I would take to mean if you mark to the side or anywhere else you are in breach of the rule and penalised.
But open to correction - it wouldnt be the first time I have come across a rule of golf where it seems clear in one section but different somewhere else in the rules.

As Shivas said, the key is "should".

They should really change it to say must. Actually, they must change it
As an uninteresting aside....I don't think they have any standards/specs for a ball marker either.

There was a similar incident with Sergio last year. He marked it to the side but it looked on TV like he then placed the ball
ahead of it. Iirc he got away with it.
(Think he got a penalty in the same tournament for tapping down a spike mark though.)

slave1

Agree with these posts, think she did a quicky to avoid sand etc in her line and caught, simple as.

agusta

PARlance wrote: »

As Shivas said, the key is "should".

They should really change it to say must. Actually, they must change it
As an uninteresting aside....I don't think they have any standards/specs for a ball marker either.

There was a similar incident with Sergio last year. He marked it to the side but it looked on TV like he then placed the ball
ahead of it. Iirc he got away with it.
(Think he got a penalty in the same tournament for tapping down a spike mark though.)

The penalty for tapping down a spike mark is disqualifacation though.I only ever recall sergio garcia getting disqualified from the pga championship for signing an incorrect score card

big_drive

When I first saw it I was wondering why she did it. Presume something was on the line

Often see dodgy marking in club competitions, more careless than deliberate cheating though to be fair

GreeBo

slave1 wrote: »

Agree with these posts, think she did a quicky to avoid sand etc in her line and caught, simple as.

She could have removed sand.
I'd assume it's too get the ball slightly closer to the hole.
She should have her card revoked until she gives a satisfactory rain for withdrawing.

Russman

Just seeing this now, f--k me that's about as blatant as it gets !
Really hope the tour don't circle the wagons and find a wishy washy way to defend her. Surely she has to get a ban of some sort.

SaveOurLyric

ShivasIrons wrote: »

The important word in the rule above is 'should' be marked. Should means it's a recommendation and not a requirement. If the rule stated 'must' then it's a requirement. As a result of the should the marker can be placed anywhere.

Thanks.
So as its written, its mark anywhere you like. Does look like one that needs to be tightened up.

blue note

She cheated and was caught. She should receive a ban.

GreeBo

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Thanks.
So as its written, its mark anywhere you like. Does look like one that needs to be tightened up.

The rule is fine and doesn't need to be changed, needs to be enforced, like all rules.

She needs to be severely reprimanded for this, I'd go with a ban until she can explain why she withdrew.

SaveOurLyric

GreeBo wrote: »

The rule is fine and doesn't need to be changed, needs to be enforced, like all rules.

She needs to be severely reprimanded for this, I'd go with a ban until she can explain why she withdrew.

Agree its a small point. But I dont see the point of a rule that was written, but on the subletly of 'should' as distinct from 'must', means that the rule has no penalty and therefore is as good as meaningless. Or worse, misleading. So why write it ? Golf rules are tough enough to get a good grasp of as it is.

GreeBo

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Agree its a small point. But I dont see the point of a rule that was written, but on the subletly of 'should' as distinct from 'must', means that the rule has no penalty and therefore is as good as meaningless. Or worse, misleading. So why write it ? Golf rules are tough enough to get a good grasp of as it is.

The rule is that you must mark the position of your ball if it is to be lifted, thats it. The rest is not the rule, its guidelines on how to mark it. You can mark it with your foot if you wanted to.

blue note

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Agree its a small point. But I dont see the point of a rule that was written, but on the subletly of 'should' as distinct from 'must', means that the rule has no penalty and therefore is as good as meaningless. Or worse, misleading. So why write it ? Golf rules are tough enough to get a good grasp of as it is.

It doesn't matter as long as you put it back in the same spot. Maybe the odd time marking behind it would not be idead; if you were barely on the green and the grass was a little long behind it, or if someone was directly behind you and it was handy to mark it to the side to get out of their line, rather than mark it behind and then move the marker.

But at the end of the day, if the ball goes back on the same spot, it doesn't matter!

charlieIRL

Wow, what was she thinking? Then to argue it?

Remember Elliot Saltman was banned for a period a few years ago for doing something similar, it wasn't a long ban but he'll always be remember for it.

downthemiddle

blue note wrote: »

She cheated and was caught. She should receive a ban.

The LPGA will be very wary on this one.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Blalock_cheating_controversy

Deep Thought

one thing the rule doesn't mention is the direction...It assumes that everyone will mark the ball facing the direction of the hole,

But I could mark my ball behind the ball but not be facing the hole, and to my fellow players that would like like I am marking to the side of the ball...

GreeBo

Deep Thought wrote: »

one thing the rule doesn't mention is the direction...It assumes that everyone will mark the ball facing the direction of the hole,

But I could mark my ball behind the ball but not be facing the hole, and to my fellow players that would like like I am marking to the side of the ball...

Again, all the *rule* states is that you must mark a ball before lifting it.
You can pretty much mark it anyway anyhow you desire.

Deep Thought

indeed, but if I mark it behind the ball, remove the ball and then replace it, to my golf partners it could look like I have now replaced the ball to the side of where my marker was...

Senecio

blue note wrote: »

It doesn't matter as long as you put it back in the same spot. Maybe the odd time marking behind it would not be idead; if you were barely on the green and the grass was a little long behind it, or if someone was directly behind you and it was handy to mark it to the side to get out of their line, rather than mark it behind and then move the marker.

But at the end of the day, if the ball goes back on the same spot, it doesn't matter!

I once marked my ball to the side because there was a spike mark immediately behind my ball and I didn't want any inference that I had tapped it down with my marker. I informed my playing partners what I was doing so they understood why I was placing the ball back beside the marker.

There are many reasons, albeit rarely used, why there needs to be freedom around how/where it is marked

GreeBo

Deep Thought wrote: »

indeed, but if I mark it behind the ball, remove the ball and then replace it, to my golf partners it could look like I have now replaced the ball to the side of where my marker was...

And when you are in the trees you could move your ball without anyone noticing...

ForeRight

I played with a guy a couple of weeks ago who marked his ball at one stage with his lighter.

tonc76

ForeRight wrote: »

I played with a guy a couple of weeks ago who marked his ball at one stage with his lighter.

I witnessed a set of keys being used .... a fcking set of keys!!

Golfnut77

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

What a git. The walkout suggest she is a deliberate cheat rather than someone who doesnt know the rules (who could a pro golfer not know such a basic procedure she must do umpteen times every round she plays).
Ball must be placed directly behind the ball, and not to the side of angled from it.


However....I thought there had been some change since the Harrington incident about phone in rules infringements from the public ? Or was that only for the men's tours ?

The change was that they can't be retrospectively disqualified, normally she would have been DQ'd for signing an incorrect scorecard but the change means she can take the penalty and have her score adjusted, same with the Tiger furore over his drop at the Masters last year. Strange that she just withdrew, unless she did it for her stats or something seeing as though she would miss the cut anyway.

GreeBo

Golfnut77 wrote: »

The change was that they can't be retrospectively disqualified, normally she would have been DQ'd for signing an incorrect scorecard but the change means she can take the penalty and have her score adjusted, same with the Tiger furore over his drop at the Masters last year. Strange that she just withdrew, unless she did it for her stats or something seeing as though she would miss the cut anyway.

Only if it's something that they wouldn't/couldn't have been aware of, such as the ball moving a minute amount.

downthemiddle

GreeBo wrote: »

Only if it's something that they wouldn't/couldn't have been aware of, such as the ball moving a minute amount.

Younger poster probably aren't aware of the infamous David Robertson. He brought cheating to a whole new level. There is also a chapter devoted to him in Laurence Donegan's book "Four Iron in the Soul".

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1291&dat=19850818&id=T_5TAAAAIBAJ&sjid=So0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2589,4781621

searay

Goldenjohn wrote: »

Blatant as it gets in my opinion. Please god let the LPGA not let this go...

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/choi-assessed-two-shot-penalty-wds-herself-instead/

Shocking that the co commentator defend her, unreal

I haven't seen any coverage of this apart from the above. It seems like its the LPGA aren't dealing with it or are keeping it behind closed doors. To me it compares to the Dyson incident (albeit more blatant and she isn't admitting to it) but is not getting anything like the same media coverage.

I hope we'll hear something about a ban very soon.

dcrosskid

That is interesting actually, I only do it when im out for a few casual holes but id use the line on the putter as the marker if i was just picking up the ball to clean it and a quick realignment. Is this actually allowed or would it have to be a marker, lighter, set of keys etc..?

What she done was absolutely blatant, shes after digging a hole for herself now.

GreeBo

dcrosskid wrote: »

That is interesting actually, I only do it when im out for a few casual holes but id use the line on the putter as the marker if i was just picking up the ball to clean it and a quick realignment. Is this actually allowed or would it have to be a marker, lighter, set of keys etc..?

What she done was absolutely blatant, shes after digging a hole for herself now.

The requirement is for the ball to be marked so it can be returned the same spot (within reason). Thats it.
You could mark it with your uncle's prosthectic leg or a dead frog if you wanted to.

dcrosskid

GreeBo wrote: »

The requirement is for the ball to be marked so it can be returned the same spot (within reason). Thats it.
You could mark it with your uncle's prosthectic leg or a dead frog if you wanted to.

That's fine but i don't drop my putter i'm still holding it in my hand, would that be allowed in "proper golf"

GreeBo

dcrosskid wrote: »

That's fine but i don't drop my putter i'm still holding it in my hand, would that be allowed in "proper golf"

Its fine, but if you do drop your putter, fall over etc then uh-oh spaghettio, your ball isnt marked = penalty.