Some questions for B1 and B2 engineers

ohmz

Hi all! Im a long time viewer of the aviation & aircraft section.

I've recently been offered a 4 year apprenticeship with an Irish airline. I've been into aviation since I was a child and have done a good bit of research into the apprenticeship so Im really looking forward to it. Ive managed to find out every other question Ive had through Boards and other sites, I just have a few unanswered questions that some of you maybe able to answer please.

1) What is the pay like for someone that just recently got a b1 or b2 license (Or is there a pay difference if you have both a b1 & b2?)

2) Would the pay differ much between here and London after your qualified?

3) I've read that most airlines offer staff discount on flights.. does it vary much with different airlines? And is it like 20% or 30% off a flight or how does that work?

4) How tough is working shifts that include nights? Is there any benefit to working them?

BTW, it looks like im just interested in money from my questions, I can assure you im not.. I just cant find any information about it. All I get when I google it is English forums. If the answers to all my questions were "crap!", Id still be happy to do it. Thanks!

bbbaldy

Ok, I would advise anyone starting in aviation now to get a B1/B2 licence, its what a lot of companies want now. Particularly line operations.

Salary is anything from 30000 to 90000, more like 30000 to 45000 in an Irish third party hangar as permanent staff, 45000 to 60000 in the UK 90000 for licenced contracting for a large UK Airline. (all Euro). These figures aren't exact you can give or take a little but are based on companies I know.

bbbaldy

Some Airlines have good staff travel, some have none. BA for example have a great staff travel scheme (e.g. Australia for 300 return). Its based on miles flown and taxes. you save more on the longer journeys.

Shifts are a fact of life in aviation, some are great, some are ball breakers, some love them some hate them.

ohmz

bbbaldy wrote: »

Some Airlines have good staff travel, some have none. BA for example have a great staff travel scheme (e.g. Australia for 300 return). Its based on miles flown and taxes. you save more on the longer journeys.

Shifts are a fact of life in aviation, some are great, some are ball breakers, some love them some hate them.

Cheers! what about staff benefits for the likes of Aer Lingus, Cityjet and Ryanair.. would those companies be similar enough?

bbbaldy

Aer lingus used to have good staff travel but Im talking 15 years ago, might be the same. also had cheap membership to ALSAA club which was very good.

You will get no staff travel or benefits of any kind from Ryanair, they will pay you, that's all.

Cityjet, I don't know.

If I were offered an apprenticeship with all three I would go Aer Lingus.
Not saying the others would be bad but it would be my preference.

ohmz

bbbaldy wrote: »

Aer lingus used to have good staff travel but Im talking 15 years ago, might be the same. also had cheap membership to ALSAA club which was very good.

You will get no staff travel or benefits of any kind from Ryanair, they will pay you, that's all.

Cityjet, I don't know.

If I were offered an apprenticeship with all three I would go Aer Lingus.
Not saying the others would be bad but it would be my preference.

Thanks for the help!

Foggy43

ohmz wrote: »

3) I've read that most airlines offer staff discount on flights.. does it vary much with different airlines? And is it like 20% or 30% off a flight or how does that work?

Just in case you are not aware but basically Staff Discounts or more commonly known as Staff Travel is an inter airline agreement between airlines who are members of IATA. You pay maybe 10% or 20% of the full fare. Some airline give a free flight every year to staff. It will vary between airlines. You must pay airport tax. I believe airport tax was removed in Ireland in the last budget. All sounds good but if you are on Staff Travel but you are relying on seats not being sold or passenger no shows. Aircraft full and you dont get on. You are a Standby.

I was speaking to colleauges of mine at LHR and no one we know off including myself has used 'Staff Travel' to Ireland for years. Staff Travel is more suited to intercontinental travel as bbbaldy said. When it comes to LHR-DUB/ORK/SNN there isnt much of a difference between the Staff Travel rate and the normal rate if you book early. You pay a little more but at least you are almost certain to get on the aircraft.

There was a time when I could get a LHR-SNN staff return ticket for £30 vaild for 3 months. Those day are gone and will remain gone while APD tax remains here in the UK.

ohmz

Foggy43 wrote: »

Just in case you are not aware but basically Staff Discounts or more commonly known as Staff Travel is an inter airline agreement between airlines who are members of IATA. You pay maybe 10% or 20% of the full fare. Some airline give a free flight every year to staff. It will vary between airlines. You must pay airport tax. I believe airport tax was removed in Ireland in the last budget. All sounds good but if you are on Staff Travel but you are relying on seats not being sold or passenger no shows. Aircraft full and you dont get on. You are a Standby.

I was speaking to colleauges of mine at LHR and no one we know off including myself has used 'Staff Travel' to Ireland for years. Staff Travel is more suited to intercontinental travel as bbbaldy said. When it comes to LHR-DUB/ORK/SNN there isnt much of a difference between the Staff Travel rate and the normal rate if you book early. You pay a little more but at least you are almost certain to get on the aircraft.

There was a time when I could get a LHR-SNN staff return ticket for £30 vaild for 3 months. Those day are gone and will remain gone while APD tax remains here in the UK.

ah right, thanks for that. I wasnt aware of that at all. I just thought they gave you like a discount voucher or something for when you are booking a flight. Would apprentices be able to get staff travel do you know?

Foggy43

ohmz wrote: »

ah right, thanks for that. I wasnt aware of that at all. I just thought they gave you like a discount voucher or something for when you are booking a flight. Would apprentices be able to get staff travel do you know?

Cant say I have heard of it but then airlines vary. In BA the answer to apprentices is yes after one years employment. This rule I believe is for all employees.

ohmz

Foggy43 wrote: »

Cant say I have heard of it but then airlines vary. In BA the answer to apprentices is yes after one years employment. This rule I believe is for all employees.

That would be fair enough!

andy_g

bbbaldy wrote: »

You will get no staff travel or benefits of any kind from Ryanair, they will pay you, that's all.

I can call Bull on this Ryanair have staff benefits, its the same as other airlines after 6 months you have some after a year you get more and longer than one and a half years are full benefits of staff travel.

APM

andy_g wrote: »

I can call Bull on this Ryanair have staff benefits, its the same as other airlines after 6 months you have some after a year you get more and longer than one and a half years are full benefits of staff travel.

Except you'll find that all of the new-hire engineers are contractors for various companies, SEAS, SAMS, Bostonair, PAM etc and as such are not employees therefore do not get staff travel perks nor the opportunity to join the employee list at any time
http://corporate.ryanair.com/careers/vacancies/ENG/

AirMechMan

Unlike most other airlines... With Ryanair you will get benefits on just ryanair, no other airline. And you'll often pay more for a staff travel ticket than a normal ticket online.

debabyjesus

Nights are a killer especially 12 hour ones. Driving home with the eyes hanging out of your head. You get a bit over €3k per month net basic starting salary as a B1 for a small irish airline that recently hired apprentices. Expenses for working abroad are about €1500 per month tax free. So B1 working abroad with a few other paid approvals like engine run, taxi, towing etc can be on roughly €60k net.

billie1b

AirMechMan wrote: »

Unlike most other airlines... With Ryanair you will get benefits on just ryanair, no other airline. And you'll often pay more for a staff travel ticket than a normal ticket online.

And through Interline with your Ryanair badge you can get flights to anywhere in the world, example LGW - LAS for €340 return, staff travel - White ticket - €50 return, unlimited amount of use, Blue Ticket - €18 return, 6 tickets when permanent. All tickets can be used on the Ryanair network, €18 or even €50 return to the Canaries is not too bad in my opinion. You can also apply for Aer Lingus staff travel as an airport worker, just like DAA staff can.

ohmz

Thanks for all the info!

debabyjesus wrote: »

Nights are a killer especially 12 hour ones. Driving home with the eyes hanging out of your head. You get a bit over €3k per month net basic starting salary as a B1 for a small irish airline that recently hired apprentices. Expenses for working abroad are about €1500 per month tax free. So B1 working abroad with a few other paid approvals like engine run, taxi, towing etc can be on roughly €60k net.

Yeah I think the 'small Irish airline' fits where I'm starting. Would you be away much after getting a B1?

Foggy43

Personally I think B2 is the way forward. Too many B1's out there and not enough B2's. Where I work if you have a B1 and ask for a type course it will be 'sorry try again next year'. If you say you have B2 you will be on a course before you even finish your question.

Also not all maintenance organizations pay extra for aircraft type ratings and approvals.

ohmz

Foggy43 wrote: »

Personally I think B2 is the way forward. Too many B1's out there and not enough B2's. Where I work if you have a B1 and ask for a type course it will be 'sorry try again next year'. If you say you have B2 you will be on a course before you even finish your question.

Also not all maintenance organizations pay extra for aircraft type ratings and approvals.

I'm hoping I can do both the B1 & B2.

Who pays for the type ratings? If the company doesn't, is it expensive for someone that wants one? And are they that necessary for someone to get?

Foggy43

ohmz wrote: »

I'm hoping I can do both the B1 & B2.

Who pays for the type ratings? If the company doesn't, is it expensive for someone that wants one? And are they that necessary for someone to get?

Sorry! What I meant was with some Maintenance Organizations, including Airlines, you will not get any extra pay for holding type ratings or company approvals. You can be a Mechanic holding B1/B2 or both with a company approval giving you Full CRS (Full Certificate to Release to Service) but still only be paid Mechanic rate of pay. In this case you are resposible for your own work. Usually you are allowed go up to the LAE grade (Licensed Aircraft Engineer). This is usually obtained by passing an oral exam on JAR66 and company procedures and legistlation. This will allow you not only to sign your own work but also other peoples.

It depends greatly on how the Organizations/Airlines have graded their staff. Some use the 'A' license some dont. Always check out the company you would like to work for. They may not be always be what they seem.

No matter where you go you will be always under pressure to get that aircraft in the air on time!

kona

Definatley get the both licenses while you can. It's easier said than done but worthwhile as I'd imagine a day will come when easa will change again and make them into one license.

paddy138

If your doing your apprenticeship it will be through solas which was fas and they are pushing for b1 and b2 by the end of your 4 year apprenticeship. so after you have your 35 weeks done in shannon i think its all about b1 and b2 after that. do it while you can id say as id imagine its a bit tougher to do it after you finish solas. best in luck in your apprenticeship. from what ive heard the nine months in shannon is tough enough so keep the head in the books

ohmz

Thanks for the advice and answers so far!!

ohmz

Anyone know what the pay is like during the apprenticeship for each phase?

The Solas/Fas website looks out of date I think

debabyjesus

Dole money for the first year anyway and it slowly gets better. God help ya if you have to rent in dublin! Think about a weekend job during college bar work or something, then pizza delivery or something during your days off from work.

I had to rent in dublin when I started in 2005 on 250 odd a week, and try run a car too! Tax and nct become discretionary then!

ohmz

debabyjesus wrote: »

Tax and nct become discretionary then!

Yeah I think theyll be first to get cut with my new budget

I think im going to shannon for 9 months and I read somewhere that Ill get an extra 70eur a week for rent. Hopefully after that when im back in the airport the money will go up a bit and I can rent in Dublin?

ohmz

Whats the training down in Shannon like? Is it all classroom stuff or is there practical stuff too?