Lexus RX450h from UK

G7722

Hi All. Looking for some advise on buying a car for my wife in the UK. It's a 2010 lexus RX450h, 42k miles on the clock.I've done some research and finally found one on the Lexus pre approved site that suits us. I phoned the dealer and left a deposit subject to Rac inspection not showing up any issues.

I Received the report back today. A few minor scratches etc which wouldn't really concern me (it is a four year old car) but there were two things that stood out. The inspector said he was unable to carry out a full road test as the car does not have a current MOT.Should this be cause for concern? The car has been with the dealer since April of this year so the MOT has probably expired in that time, but are dealers required to have the MOT done before selling the car?

Also the inspector reported that there was a slight oil leak/residue around the head gasket area & drain pipe. again is this something the dealer should sort out before the sale?(being a Lexus pre approved car) I know a head gasket replacement is a major job.I'm not sure if I should walk away because of these issues or if I'm being overly cautious.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Sobanek

If in doubt, walk away. There's plenty of other cars about.

colm_mcm

How does the warranty work, would a NI lexus dealer do the work?

coylemj

If the dealer has had the car since April, how did you allow yourself to be pressurised into paying him a deposit before you had it inspected?

Marcusm

It's usual for a main dealer to arrange to MOT a car immediately prior to delivery. Dealerships which also have MOT workshops will often do so when they take them in but not always. I can't help you on the oil etc.

fmcg_scribe

This does not sound like an official used car from Lexus.

The Lexus UK website says the following about approved used cars:

---

Before you take delivery of your Lexus, it has been subjected to a long and comprehensive vehicle preparation.

The vehicle preparation process encompasses five distinct stages:

Independent vehicle history check.
Independent vehicle mileage check.
Service history check.
Vehicle preparation and valeting (MOT if applicable).
Once the history and mileage checks have been passed, the car is fully prepared to Lexus standards. We carefully inspect the car's overall condition - outside, inside and underneath.

OUTSIDE:

Vehicles should meet the current MOT requirements. Brake efficiency tests are replaced by evaluating braking performance on road test, headlamp alignment is replaced by visual inspection.
Audio System must be in full working order and good condition.
Tyres must be of the correct size and rating, locking wheel nuts are acceptable providing they are in a serviceable condition and the correct locking key(s) supplied.
Window glass must be in good condition and security etching must be correct.
INSIDE:

Any marks, tears or burns must be repaired.
All controls and switches must operate to original specification.
All warning lights and gauges must be fully functioning and accurate.
Steering wheel and column condition/adjustment must be correct.
MECHANICAL:

All engine components must be in full working order.
Steering, brakes and suspension must be in a condition representing good maintenance by previous owners.
VALETING YOUR LEXUS:

All Approved Pre-Owned Lexus vehicles are thoroughly cleaned inside and out before being presented for sale.

---

G7722

Hi all. Thanks for the reply's. Spoke to the dealer today and he assured me that Lexus NI will cover the years warranty and the car is having it's MOT tomorrow. Also spoke to a mechanic who said that a little residue on the the head gasket isn't necessarily cause for concern (especially with the years warranty). I think the Rac are particularly stringent in their inspections and they obviously have to cover themselves.

coylemj.... I was never "pressurised" into leaving a deposit. As stated in my original post I left a deposit based on the Rac inspection being okay. The inspection was four days from the time I spoke to the dealer, and I didn't want to lose the car in that time.

Again thanks for the reply's.

joujoujou

G7722 wrote: »

[...] Spoke to the dealer today and he assured me that Lexus NI will cover the years warranty [...]

Don't believe the dealer. Ask Lexus NI yourself.

http://www.belfast.lexus.co.uk/contact/

fmcg_scribe

joujoujou wrote: »

Don't believe the dealer. Ask Lexus NI yourself.

Agree.

Having dealt with Lexus Guildford for the last 2 years for servicing, this sort of approach to selling a Lexus car as an approved (?) used car does not sound right.

Some years ago, I bought a used BMW M3 as an approved used BMW from a BMW UK dealer and the preparation for sale was second to none.

A non-franchise dealer might cautious about putting car with an expired MOT through an MOT until a buyer has been found for the car. A franchise dealer planning to sell a car with an expired MOT as an approved used car would probably put the car through an MOT when the decision is made to sell the car as an approved used car (and thus not move the car to another dealer or to an auction house).

If car for sale has an MOT that is close to expiring, some dealers tend to bring forward the MOT date and put the car through an MOT if only to reassure prospective buyers. Franchise dealers selling approved user cars might choose to offer "MOT insurance" to cover situations where a newly sold approved used car fails an MOT within, say, 3-6 months of the sale.

colm_mcm

Is it illegal to test drive a car without MOT?

Marcusm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Is it illegal to test drive a car without MOT?

There's no exclusion for this type if activity. However, as I've recently discovered, absence of MOT results in a car being "logged" on ANPR but no automated fine. In car ANPR will flag it for police but they'll likely only chase down if no tax/insurance as well and even then only if not otherwise engaged.

colm_mcm

You'd imagine the AA/RAC would have some sort of trade plates to cover them

fmcg_scribe

colm_mcm wrote: »

You'd imagine the AA/RAC would have some sort of trade plates to cover them

Agreed, trade plates should cover any dealer in that situation.

Obviously, if someone was to buy a used car, the MOT would need to be valid and up to date before they could tax or insure it.

Marcusm

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

Agreed, trade plates should cover any dealer in that situation.

Obviously, if someone was to buy a used car, the MOT would need to be valid and up to date before they could tax or insure it.

Trade plates do not cover the absence of MOT nor should they. The MOT is a max 45 minute test which doesn't require per booking and can be done in 100s of garages not just specialised centres.

fmcg_scribe

Marcusm wrote: »

Trade plates do not cover the absence of MOT nor should they. The MOT is a max 45 minute test which doesn't require per booking and can be done in 100s of garages not just specialised centres.

That may well be the legal requirement but many (most?) UK motor dealers do not observe it, especially non-franchise ones. I suspect that a large portion of used cars on UK motor dealers' lots have expired tax and/or expired MOT.

Increasingly, the attitude among motor dealers is that they will find a buyer for used car before putting it through an MOT and fixing anything wrong with the car.

At the moment, the UK is flooded with used cars for sale, so I expect that dealers will continue to take this view when deciding whether and when to prepare a used car for sale.

Marcusm

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

That may well be the legal requirement but many (most?) UK motor dealers do not observe it, especially non-franchise ones. I suspect that a large portion of used cars on UK motor dealers' lots have expired tax and/or expired MOT.

Increasingly, the attitude among motor dealers is that they will find a buyer for used car before putting it through an MOT and fixing anything wrong with the car.

At the moment, the UK is flooded with used cars for sale, so I expect that dealers will continue to take this view when deciding whether and when to prepare a used car for sale.

An MOT can easily cost as little as £25. Philospohically I disagree that dealers should be allowed an exemption from MOT based on using trade plates. If we are to at least pay lipservice to its existence as an annual test of roadworthiness, there seems little point in permitting second hand car salesmen, many of whom have little or no mechanical knowledge, an exemption for using the car on unsuspecting members of the public. Use of trade plates does not exempt them from an insurance requirement but simply recognises that the insurance is not tied to the car's registration plate.

I would actually see it as the other way around - if they want to be industry professionals they should have zero tolerance applied to them with respect to MOT etc.

I may be a little embittered but having organised a car purchase for my mother (who lives in Ireland while I live in the UK), I was incredibly frustrated by the Irish main dealer (Merrion Road opposite the church) who told her after signing all the paperwork that they hadn't put it through the NCT despite it being a requirement that they do so and proceeded to hand he back €50. She was too shocked and unfamilar to simply reject the purchase. Cue three months trying to get it organsied whereas they could have gotten it done much more easily.

fmcg_scribe

Marcusm wrote: »

An MOT can easily cost as little as £25. Philospohically I disagree that dealers should be allowed an exemption from MOT based on using trade plates. If we are to at least pay lipservice to its existence as an annual test of roadworthiness, there seems little point in permitting second hand car salesmen, many of whom have little or no mechanical knowledge, an exemption for using the car on unsuspecting members of the public. Use of trade plates does not exempt them from an insurance requirement but simply recognises that the insurance is not tied to the car's registration plate.

I would actually see it as the other way around - if they want to be industry professionals they should have zero tolerance applied to them with respect to MOT etc.

I may be a little embittered but having organised a car purchase for my mother (who lives in Ireland while I live in the UK), I was incredibly frustrated by the Irish main dealer (Merrion Road opposite the church) who told her after signing all the paperwork that they hadn't put it through the NCT despite it being a requirement that they do so and proceeded to hand he back €50. She was too shocked and unfamilar to simply reject the purchase. Cue three months trying to get it organsied whereas they could have gotten it done much more easily.

I sympathise with some of your views.

However, the MOT is not really a test of a car's reliability. It's a limited set of tests to check for a car's general roadworthiness and safety. It's supposed to be applied consistently and fully by MOT testing stations without fear or favour. In reality, cars do get through MOTs that shouldn't - some testers not failing cracked wheel rims is a good example.

On the cost issue, whether it's £25 or £50 for an MOT, many motor dealers operate on tight margins and if a car has arrived on their lot via a trade-in, they will want to make sure that they can sell it to somebody before spending any money on it. From a dealer's point of view, there's no point spending money on an MOT for a car that they can't sell - better to move that car to another dealer or more likely to an auction house or else a scrap yard.

Sometimes, car buyers have to see certain things from a dealer's point of view. Margins are tight for selling new and used cars - parts and servicing are where most dealers break even and make profits. For dealers that don't have parts and servicing operations, a hand to mouth existence is more usual. In the UK in recent years, a lot of Asians have become motor dealers and I expect that some of them used to run corner shops or market stalls, so they are used to haggling and doing deals but in my experience most of them don't understand cars or appreciate the sort of things that might matter to a car buyer - they seem to be in it purely for the money.

Marcusm

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

I sympathise with some of your views.

However, the MOT is not really a test of a car's reliability. It's a limited set of tests to check for a car's general roadworthiness and safety. It's supposed to be applied consistently and fully by MOT testing stations without fear or favour. In reality, cars do get through MOTs that shouldn't - some testers not failing cracked wheel rims is a good example.

On the cost issue, whether it's £25 or £50 for an MOT, many motor dealers operate on tight margins and if a car has arrived on their lot via a trade-in, they will want to make sure that they can sell it to somebody before spending any money on it. From a dealer's point of view, there's no point spending money on an MOT for a car that they can't sell - better to move that car to another dealer or more likely to an auction house or else a scrap yard.

Sometimes, car buyers have to see certain things from a dealer's point of view. Margins are tight for selling new and used cars - parts and servicing are where most dealers break even and make profits. For dealers that don't have parts and servicing operations, a hand to mouth existence is more usual. In the UK in recent years, a lot of Asians have become motor dealers and I expect that some of them used to run corner shops or market stalls, so they are used to haggling and doing deals but in my experience most of them don't understand cars or appreciate the sort of things that might matter to a car buyer - they seem to be in it purely for the money.

None of this would in any way justify exempting car dealers from minimum legal thresholds for cars to be on the road. From a policy perspective, introducing unnecessary and unattractive exemptions from minimum requirements leads either to consumer frustration or avoidance.