Accompanying a learner driver.

corktina

What ,if any, obligations have you as regards Insurance /NCT/tax etc?

Can you get points/fines if the car isn't road-legal?

endacl

Why would you accompany if the car isn't road legal? You're supposed to be the more sensible and experienced one in this scenario!

O.A.P

endacl wrote: »

Why would you accompany if the car isn't road legal? You're supposed to be the more sensible and experienced one in this scenario!

You would both get done by the Guards I think.
Plus much better nerves than mine are required .

oldyouth

With regard to insurance, the TP would get paid if the driver was at fault. Own damage may or may not, depending on the wording of the contract. Possibly expect a policy cancellation/loading for deliberate action to break the Road Traffic Act, which will be the beginning of difficulties for a few years to come.

djimi

oldyouth wrote: »

With regard to insurance, the TP would get paid if the driver was at fault. Own damage may or may not, depending on the wording of the contract. Possibly expect a policy cancellation/loading for deliberate action to break the Road Traffic Act, which will be the beginning of difficulties for a few years to come.

Im assuming he meant if the learner had no insurance, what the implications would be for the accompanying fully licened driver.

oldyouth

djimi wrote: »

Im assuming he meant if the learner had no insurance, what the implications would be for the accompanying fully licened driver.

I take it as an insured learner not being accompanied but I see what you mean

alias no.9

Pretty sure you have to be sober, never admit to being the accompanying driver if you're being driven home from the pub by someone on a provisional

corktina

O.A.P wrote: »

You would both get done by the Guards I think.
Plus much better nerves than mine are required .

This is what I'm getting at. If you are a full license holder and you got a lift home with someone who turned out to be a L driver and they committed an offence, what are the implications for you, as technically you would be in charge of the vehicle.

Alanstrainor

corktina wrote: »

This is what I'm getting at. If you are a full license holder and you got a lift home with someone who turned out to be a L driver and they committed an offence, what are the implications for you, as technically you would be in charge of the vehicle.

Surely if you hadn't agreed to be their accompanying driver then there is no issue? I'm not so sure just sitting in the seat while holding a full license means much. But I can see it being a grey area alright!

djimi

corktina wrote: »

This is what I'm getting at. If you are a full license holder and you got a lift home with someone who turned out to be a L driver and they committed an offence, what are the implications for you, as technically you would be in charge of the vehicle.

Id be interested to know this also, however I really dont see how the legal roadworthiness of their vehicle is of any concern of yours as the accompanying driver. Its their responsbility to ensure that they are insured to drive the car, as well as to make sure that it is road legal wrt tax and NCT. Its their car at the end of the day, not yours.

corktina

I seem to recall that the passenger must be insured to drive the car should the need arise...any info on that?

Alanstrainor

corktina wrote: »

I seem to recall that the passenger must be insured to drive the car should the need arise...any info on that?

That is definitely not true.

corktina

Alanstrainor wrote: »

That is definitely not true.

In fairness, I have no idea if you are basing that on knowledge or if it's a guess or opinion

Truckermal

What if a learner driver came to the pub with you and the learner stayed dry while you slaughtered about 10 pints then the learner drives home.

djimi

corktina wrote: »

In fairness, I have no idea if you are basing that on knowledge or if it's a guess or opinion

Ask your insurance company then; theyll tell you quickly enough if your policy covers you to accompany a learner.

It doesnt btw; not as far as I have ever seen anyway.

djimi

Truckermal wrote: »

What if a learner driver came to the pub with you and the learner stayed dry while you slaughtered about 10 pints then the learner drives home.

The accompanying driver must be sober by road legal standards. Its not an offense for them not to be, but they wont be considered to be an accompanying driver.

Alanstrainor

corktina wrote: »

In fairness, I have no idea if you are basing that on knowledge or if it's a guess or opinion

I don't have a link to any legislation, but a quick google returns this from the RSA:

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Learner-Drivers/Safe-Driving1/Safety-for-Permit-Holders/

Accompanying other learners:

You may not act as an accompanying driver, ie, holder of a full licence, for a person driving on a learner permit.The Certificate of Competency you receive on passing your driving test does not qualify – you must hold a full licence to be an accompanying driver for a continuous period of at least 2 years.

However it also doesn't mention anything specific, but I would imagine that, insurance would be a fairly critical point to forget.

corktina

You would be in charge though and expected to control the car in an emergency....and how does a dual-control learner car fare? (although that would almost certainly be insured for the owner I gues.

djimi

corktina wrote: »

You would be in charge though and expected to control the car in an emergency

No youre not. You are a passenger who is there to keep an eye on the learner. If its not a dual control car then the accompanying driver has no control over the car whatsoever.

Truckermal

djimi wrote: »

The accompanying driver must be sober by road legal standards. Its not an offense for them not to be, but they wont be considered to be an accompanying driver.

Could they bag you so in that case?? Lol I am worse than Cinio!!:p

djimi

Bag you?

endacl

djimi wrote: »

Bag you?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teabagging

Pro Hoc Vice

corktina wrote: »

You would be in charge though and expected to control the car in an emergency....and how does a dual-control learner car fare? (although that would almost certainly be insured for the owner I gues.

No you are not in charge by any definition or case law. You are not expected to take control at the very most maybe an argument could be made that the learner was in fact not accompanied.

There is no offence under the Road Traffic Acts or any regulation making it an offence for a passanger to be convicted for drink driving.

djimi

endacl wrote: »

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teabagging

See, that was the first thing that popped into my head :pac:

wonski

corktina wrote: »

This is what I'm getting at. If you are a full license holder and you got a lift home with someone who turned out to be a L driver and they committed an offence, what are the implications for you, as technically you would be in charge of the vehicle.

You are not in charge of neither the vehicle nor the learner.
You are accompanying the learner. The learner has a "license" to drive and he is responsible for his actions.

jimgoose

corktina wrote: »

You would be in charge though and expected to control the car in an emergency....and how does a dual-control learner car fare? (although that would almost certainly be insured for the owner I gues.

It is illegal for anyone who is not an ADI to sit in the shotgun seat of a dual-control car. And as others have said, an accompanying driver is at no point considered to be in charge of the car - at worst, the learner will be deemed unaccompanied and the usual malarkey after that.

corktina

jimgoose wrote: »

It is illegal for anyone who is not an ADI to sit in the shotgun seat of a dual-control car. And as others have said, an accompanying driver is at no point considered to be in charge of the car - at worst, the learner will be deemed unaccompanied and the usual malarkey after that.

Illegal? I doubt that. Sitting in a seat can't be illegal and I doubt there is any law that covers that.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

wonski wrote: »

You are not in charge of neither the vehicle nor the learner.
You are accompanying the learner. The learner has a "license" to drive and he is responsible for his actions.

He has a permit, not a license.
Hence the need for a licensed accompanying driver.
The accompanying fully licensed passenger must be in a fit state to drive the car - notionally - otherwise they don't count as an accompanying full license holder.
There would be no implications to the passenger if they failed a breath test, however the L driver would be deemed as unaccompanied in such a scenario.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

corktina wrote: »

Illegal? I doubt that. Sitting in a seat can't be illegal and I doubt there is any law that covers that.

+1 that;s the first I heard of it being illegal.

jimgoose

corktina wrote: »

Illegal? I doubt that. Sitting in a seat can't be illegal and I doubt there is any law that covers that.

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

+1 that;s the first I heard of it being illegal.

<Ahem> Yes, quite right. There's talk of making it illegal in some jurisdictions like the UK and Australia, but it isn't illegal here at any rate. Apologies.

wonski

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

He has a permit, not a license.
Hence the need for a licensed accompanying driver.
The accompanying fully licensed passenger must be in a fit state to drive the car - notionally - otherwise they don't count as an accompanying full license holder.
There would be no implications to the passenger if they failed a breath test, however the L driver would be deemed as unaccompanied in such a scenario.

Where do you guys find this information???
It makes sense but I Don't think Garda can breathalyze a passenger.