Does nepotism now negate all hiring criteria?

sparkthatbled

I'll try to keep this brief... I have worked in the warehouse of a large company for a long time. Recently a minor promotion came up, and since I've been in very good standing with my superiors recently I decided to give it my best shot. The job was eventually awarded to someone else, and that would normally be ok with me, especially since the money was not much more and I would have to work awkward hours. A few things irked me, though.

I was definitely more qualified than him, both in terms of time in the company and experience with using the systems and procedures in place. My direct superior (who was not involved in the hiring process) was shocked that I had lost out, as was everyone else I talked to. I was also told that I gave a very strong interview and they could not offer any improvement feedback on that. Now for the icing on the cake, I wore slacks, polished shoes and a shirt and tie to my interview, this other guy wore his tracksuit and trainers. I have heard that my rival knows someone personally that swung it for him, which is unsurprising, really.

My question is am I wasting my time working for a company that treats staff like this? If I left and looked elsewhere would I just find the same situation?

And the big question for anyone who works in HR, how would you react if someone came in for a job interview in a tracksuit and trainers?

murphyebass

sparkthatbled wrote: »

I'll try to keep this brief... I have worked in the warehouse of a large company for a long time. Recently a minor promotion came up, and since I've been in very good standing with my superiors recently I decided to give it my best shot. The job was eventually awarded to someone else, and that would normally be ok with me, especially since the money was not much more and I would have to work awkward hours. A few things irked me, though.

I was definitely more qualified than him, both in terms of time in the company and experience with using the systems and procedures in place. My direct superior (who was not involved in the hiring process) was shocked that I had lost out, as was everyone else I talked to. I was also told that I gave a very strong interview and they could not offer any improvement feedback on that. Now for the icing on the cake, I wore slacks, polished shoes and a shirt and tie to my interview, this other guy wore his tracksuit and trainers. I have heard that my rival knows someone personally that swung it for him, which is unsurprising, really.

My question is am I wasting my time working for a company that treats staff like this? If I left and looked elsewhere would I just find the same situation?

And the big question for anyone who works in HR, how would you react if someone came in for a job interview in a tracksuit and trainers?

This Ireland for ya.

Who you know, not what you know.

Always has been and always will be whether people like to admit it or not.

Mr. Loverman

Sorry for this massive dose of reality, but who you know, who trusts you, who you're loyal to, etc., will always trump "I'm good at my job".

I know in school we're taught "he who works hardest comes first" but that's bad advice for the real world.

Obviously being competent is important, but it's just one piece of the puzzle.

Nody

Sorry to say but that's sort of the whole point of nepotism; it's not the final factor to swing a vote one way or another but it overrules everything else...

greendom

Nody wrote: »

Sorry to say but that's sort of the whole point of nepotism; it's not the final factor to swing a vote one way or another but it overrules everything else...

That doesn't make it right though. It's one of the worst things about Ireland. I suppose its human nature but with Ireland being so small it seems more prevalent than elsewhere.

Mrs OBumble

It's not unique to Ireland - although we are particularly good at it.

And the only place where it's not allowed is in the public sector. Anywhere else, it should be expected.

Work on your relationships, and good luck with job hunting with external companies.

professore

Start looking somewhere else. You will end up doing most of his work as well as your own.

Mr. Loverman

greendom wrote: »

That doesn't make it right though. It's one of the worst things about Ireland. I suppose its human nature but with Ireland being so small it seems more prevalent than elsewhere.

It has nothing to do with "Ireland". It is the same everywhere in the world. The reality is people like to surround themselves with people they trust.

greendom

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

It has nothing to do with "Ireland". It is the same everywhere in the world. The reality is people like to surround themselves with people they trust.

From my experience its more prevalent in Ireland than other countries I've lived in.

sparkthatbled

I was always aware of the underlying culture, but the brazenness of showing up to the interview in a tracksuit because he was guaranteed the job really boiled my blood.

wuffly

Something like 70-80% of jobs aren't even advertised. Your situation sounds particularly crappy but I have to say that when I'm involved in hiring I try to go on personal recommendations, BUT this would only be to get candidates for interview. If they aren't right for the role a recommendation won't get them the job. I got an interview for my current job through recommendations from old colleagues. This put me on a good footing but it wasn't the only factor. In most industries relationships are important with your company and any suppliers/clients you deal with. My advice would be to get good at relationships it will help with your options in time. This and a good work ethic which you seem to have will pay off in the long term. I would take this one on the chin and keep your options open, employers like to see loyalty as well. Good luck.

Mr. Loverman

I thought about this a bit more and want to add the following.

sparkthatbled wrote: »

I was definitely more qualified than him, both in terms of time in the company and experience with using the systems and procedures in place.

The above is not that relevant for a promotion.

Every company has loads of people who are "more experienced" etc. but are unsuitable for senior or management positions.

Generally, management-ish roles are for certain types of personalities.

sparkthatbled wrote: »

My direct superior (who was not involved in the hiring process) was shocked that I had lost out, as was everyone else I talked to.

This doesn't necessarily mean anything. It's possible they're just being kind.

sparkthatbled wrote: »

I was also told that I gave a very strong interview and they could not offer any improvement feedback on that.

Again, this doesn't necessarily mean anything.

sparkthatbled wrote: »

Now for the icing on the cake, I wore slacks, polished shoes and a shirt and tie to my interview, this other guy wore his tracksuit and trainers.

Not everyone values dressing up for interviews. You work in a warehouse, is it possible they don't care about slacks, polished shoes and ties?

sparkthatbled wrote: »

I have heard that my rival knows someone personally that swung it for him, which is unsurprising, really.

This is pretty normal. Recommendations and promotions within a circle of trust reduces risk.

Now, it's possible the guy is a total dingus and shouldn't have gotten the role, but you haven't given me enough information to convince me of this.

I have worked in senior management in the past, and I've promoted people to team leader / supervisor roles, and in all cases these people were trusted / loyal to me / people I could mould. I had zero interest in promoting the highly technical guys who were arrogant or unreliable or untrustworthy or simply not within my circle of trust.

You might think this is wrong, but it's the real world. People who have power want to keep their power. Once you understand this it becomes very easy to play the promotion game.

Eoin

Nepotism means parachuting a relative in to an organisation.

Hiring someone you know because you know they can do the job, to me, makes perfect sense and it's not an inherently bad thing IMO. I think that Irish people confuse the two things.

Obviously hiring them because they're a mate but not very good doesn't make sense, as it will most likely backfire on you. That could be the case here; we don't know.

italodisco

I know of two people that haven't worked in roughly 8 years each and certainly wouldn't have what it takes to pass the beep test but are as good as into the Guards ....

Absolutely enraged as it's very obvious they have pull due to relatives high positions within the cops.

Nepotism still rules the roost.

Sure in one public service department up in finglas most of the management are all cousins /bro sis in law etc ... Some getting their positions unfairly by telling other staff of similar grades they aren't allowed apply when really they are....

Sickening .

FloatingVoter

Dublin Council has been known for hiring idiot sons and daughters. Certainly was the case during the "boom" fantasy. The Stalinesque cull in RTE brings tears of joy. The amount of illiterates working in the Aertel department was approaching monkeys with typewriters territory.
As for at the visible end of the spectrum, Ryan Tubridy happened on the LLS at the age of 10 or thereabouts. Nothing to do with heavyweight political connections. He's that talented.
TDs hiring their family members couldn't happen here.

Potatoeman

If you are passed over leave when you get a new job. If they pass you over once they will do it again. Being good at your job can trap you in a position too.

Wanderer2010

I can only add to the previous posters by saying that yes, nepotism is a very sad but true fact of working life. There are solicitors' practices up and down the whole country who only take on their own for apprenticeships, same with family businesses, multinationals etc. It really is all down to connections and whether the right people like you or not. That's not to say that it doesnt annoy me or make me question certain hiring decisions but at the end of the day, people are people and will always go for likeability over talent.

Its not just nepotism though. Where I work, a job came up recently in admin and a woman who really is not suited to the job got it because she gets on very well with the boss whereas another woman with tonnes of qualifications and experience didn't even get a look-in. Its the way of the world sadly OP. But don't give up yet, if another promotion comes up go for it. If you get the same treatment, start looking elsewhere.

hacker21

I am smiling to myself at your post, not a big smile just a small cynical one. Nepotism does exist and is stronger than ever. Sorry to hear what happen to you, if the other guy got the job because of nepotism or knowing someone I understand you being v. annoyed. As the others say you have to take it on the chin or at least give the appearance of this in work because otherwise if you’re too put out or appear to be sulking you will only do yourself harm by appearing to have a bad attitude. Instead turn this on its head, be the bigger person and show them what a positive person you are by accepting the decision with good grace. You can’t change this now but take what you have learned from this situation and invest all your energy in yourself e.g. see if there are any courses out there that might help you progress. Even something part time one evening a week could be built on, I am a great believer in “baby steps”.
Oh yeah, you might ask why I am smiling to myself where I work Daddy(Not my Daddy) is on the board, daughter works there recently went for and got internal promotion. Cousins as supervisors; another woman’s daughter just married the brother of someone else that works there. I could go on…………………..

experiMental

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

....... people I could mould. I had zero interest in promoting the highly technical guys who were arrogant or unreliable or untrustworthy or simply not within my circle of trust.

You might think this is wrong, but it's the real world. People who have power want to keep their power. Once you understand this it becomes very easy to play the promotion game.

For me, this is a million dollar information. Suppose you are my manager. What if I said that I didn't really want to be moulded by anyone, and I had my own set of ideals that I want to stick to? Is that bad practise? Is that too cocky?

As for highly technical guys who were arrogant, why is it so bad? I had experience with a few of them before, and I wouldn't say anything bad. Sure, they were arrogant, but if you get over their arrogance, they had strong opinions and they got their jobs done in the end, and actually to a decent standard.

So the final question : if there is a huge amount of nepotism in a certain company, and it is extremely hard to get ahead, is that a good reason to leave it? Or is it better to work around nepotism and prove yourself that way?

Eoin

experiMental wrote: »

For me, this is a million dollar information. Suppose you are my manager. What if I said that I didn't really want to be moulded by anyone, and I had my own set of ideals that I want to stick to? Is that bad practise? Is that too cocky?

It depends, and it's a bit of a vague thing to debate.

If you can explain and back up your opinions or ideals, then that's fine in certain situations. If it's the type of situation where you won't follow processes because you think they're a waste of time, then yeah - that's a problem. Unless you're 100% sure that you're working for an idiot, you need to assume that your manager has information or knowledge that you don't have and probably has good reason for telling you to do stuff you might not agree with.

experiMental wrote: »

As for highly technical guys who were arrogant, why is it so bad? I had experience with a few of them before, and I wouldn't say anything bad. Sure, they were arrogant, but if you get over their arrogance, they had strong opinions and they got their jobs done in the end, and actually to a decent standard.

The problem is when they create a toxic work environment and rarely take anyone else's opinions or suggestions onboard. People shouldn't have to put up with too much crap from the prima donna types; especially just to get a "decent" standard. There can be a big enough personality difference between your average techie and non-techie as it is.

And many of the arrogant techie types are nowhere near as good as they think they are in the first place.

experiMental wrote: »

So the final question : if there is a huge amount of nepotism in a certain company, and it is extremely hard to get ahead, is that a good reason to leave it? Or is it better to work around nepotism and prove yourself that way?

If it's actual nepotism - i.e. family members being dropped in, then I'd get out of there. But as I said, I think that's a term used to describe giving a job to someone who is a known quantity; which is not necessarily a bad thing. Hiring or promoting is risky business; if you can cut out some of the uncertainty, it's definitely a bonus.