Friend barred from pub in the wrong. Any rights?

BeardedBadger

One of my close friends was kicked out and barred from a pub in our local town for allegedly stealing a box of cigarettes from a woman's handbag. The woman is a close friend of mine and she is completely certain that is wasn't my friend, who doesn't smoke, that stole her cigarettes.
The owner of the pub in question has a bit of a reputation for being an absolute asshole and my friend is still barred after over a year.
This doesn't bother our friend group as we rarely drink there. However, there was a 21st on in there and it was my friends cousins. The publican was standing at the door checking ID when a small bunch of us approached the door. I immediately handed over my ID but upon spotting my friend the bar owner said 'he's not getting in, I'll not have someone who robs things out of people's bags in here. I still have the footage on cctv. He's lucky I didn't go to the guards. '

This has been bothering me for the last few weeks and I hope someone on here can inform me of a course of action. If this cctv footage doesn't exist is there a way my friend can clear his name? Is there any way I could find out if this footage does exist?
I know that this isn't my issue but my friend is very put out about being accused and threatened especially in front of groups of his peers the way it was done the last time.

Any bit of help is greatly appreciated.

Also IF this footage does exist and the person who allegedly stole the cigarettes off was to say she knew he was taking them and had given him permission what would the reprocussions then be?

Thanks in advance

Ken.

2 things

1. Why doesn't the girl say to the publican that she knows it wasn't him as he doesn't smoke?.

2. I've lived in a small enough town where cousins live and everyone knew when you last ****. They'd know if I was barred from a pub and if they still went ahead with a party I'd take that as an f.u.

Sir Arthur Daley

ArseMonger1 wrote: »

One of my close friends was kicked out and barred from a pub in our local town for allegedly stealing a box of cigarettes from a woman's handbag. The woman is a close friend of mine and she is completely certain that is wasn't my friend, who doesn't smoke, that stole her cigarettes.

I cannot interpret this statement.

Pat Mustard

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

I cannot interpret this statement.

His male friend didn't steal cigarettes from his female friend.

OP, tell your friend to see a solicitor about an action for defamation.

billy few mates

There's no smoke(s) without fire....

mrsbyrne

If your asking about the publicans entitlement to refuse your friend entry then he has every right as long as he's not discriminating and in your case he's not.
Don't bother with the solicitor and the defamation. Your friend could write yo the publican declaring his innocence and the fact that the victim says it wasn't him. Ask him to desist from defaming your friend and say that he will get legal advice if it happens again.

old_aussie

Simples, ask for the cctv tape to be played to show the facts of what happened

bucketybuck

old_aussie wrote: »

Simples, ask for the cctv tape to be played to show the facts of what happened

Why bother? I doubt the publican is going to let him see it, and even if he did he'll probably still won't let your friend drink in the bar out of spite.

Unless your friend is going to sue in court for defamation or something like that the best thing he can do is move with his life and just ignore this arsehole, it just doesn't sound like its worth it.

NipNip

If I was barred unfairly from any premises, hell or high water would not persuade me to darken the door of said premises again!

Leroy42

OP, you are clearly leaving out loads of facts here.

1. Your female friend had cigs robbed from her bag, but is certain that it wasn't your male friend. In that case she would have to know who did it. Why doesn't see simply tell the publican who it was. - I am assuming that she actually doesn't know who it was and therefore cannot categorically state that your male friend didn't do it.

2. Who brought the theft to the attention of the publican? I assume he didn't see it himself. I would assume that in this case, since it was in your female friend’s bag, that she raised the alert. Could she not have said to the publican at the time who is definably wasn't?

3. I am surprised that you are still friends with both of them. If I was your male friend I'd be pretty p'd off that your female friend knows it wasn't him yet is happy to simply let the situation stick on the basis that you don't go their very often. Hardly the point really.

4. The publican says he has CCTV footage. It would surprise me that the CCTV footage would be good enough to see the incident. Even assuming that it was, basically the publican has evidence of a crime being committed but is not going to the Guards? How does your female friend feel about that? She raised a complaint and the publican has basically done a witch hunt against your completely innocent male friend. Again I am surprised that you or any of your friends would ever drink there again.

AS to the publican rights, well he has every right to refuse entry to anybody once it is not discriminatory. Given that he has evidence of your friend being a thief, I'm not sure why any of your friends would still want to hang around with him.

mr kr0nik

If there is CCTV used, would a FOI request not work here?

Uriel.

mr kr0nik wrote: »

If there is CCTV used, would a FOI request not work here?

Pubs are not subject to FoI

irishgeo

You friend could make it difficult for the bar owner epically if he is not complying with the law.

http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Data-Protection-CCTV/242.htm

Access Requests


1. Any person whose image is recorded on a CCTV system has a right to seek and be supplied with a copy of their own personal data from the footage. To exercise that right, a person must make an application in writing. The data controller may charge up to €6.35 for responding to such a request and must respond within 40 days.

2. When making an access request for CCTV footage, the requester should provide the data controller with a reasonable indication of the timeframe of the recording being sought - i.e. they should provide details of the approximate time and the specific date(s) on which their image was recorded. For example, it would not suffice for a requester to make a very general request saying that they want a copy of all CCTV footage held on them. Instead, it is necessary to specify that they are seeking a copy of all CCTV footage in relation to them which was recorded on a specific date between certain hours at a named location. Obviously, if the recording no longer exists on the date on which the data controller receives the access request, it will not be possible to get access to a copy. Requesters should be aware that CCTV footage is usually deleted within one month of being recorded.

3. For the data controller's part, the obligation in responding to the access request is to provide a copy of the requester's personal information. This normally involves providing a copy of the footage in video format. In circumstances where the footage is technically incapable of being copied to another device, or in other exceptional circumstances, it is acceptable to provide stills as an alternative to video footage. Where stills are supplied, it would be necessary to supply a still for every second of the recording in which the requester's image appears in order to comply with the obligation to supply a copy of all personal data held.

4. Where images of parties other than the requesting data subject appear on the CCTV footage the onus lies on the data controller to pixilate or otherwise redact or darken out the images of those other parties before supplying a copy of the footage or stills from the footage to the requestor. Alternatively, the data controller may seek the consent of those other parties whose images appear in the footage to release an unedited copy containing their images to the requester

5. Where a data controller chooses to use technology to process personal data, such as a CCTV system to capture and record images of living individuals, they are obliged to shoulder the data protection obligations which the law places on them for such data processing. In the matter of access requests for CCTV footage, data controllers are obliged to comply fully with such requests. Claims by a data controller that they are unable to produce copies of footage or that stills cannot be produced from the footage are unacceptable excuses in the context of dealing with an access request. In short, where a data controller uses a CCTV system to process personal data, its takes on and is obliged to comply with all associated data protection obligations.

GrumpyMe

"Friend barred from pub in the wrong. Any rights?"

He has the right to his good name!
If the publican defames / slanders him then your friend can go to court and the publican has to put up or shut up (and pay up:)).

Your friend has no right of entry to the pub without the permission of the publican - can't see why he would want to anyway!

MrBobbyZ

Quite a strong case for defamation of character. Assuming this CCTV is not clearly showing your friend stealing. And assuming that your friend has good character (ie no convictions for previous theft).
As already stated it would surprise me that the publican's CCTV is stored in a manner that would clearly show a pack of cigarettes being removed from a handbag.

goz83

ArseMonger1 wrote: »

upon spotting my friend the bar owner said 'he's not getting in, I'll not have someone who robs things out of people's bags in here. I still have the footage on cctv. He's lucky I didn't go to the guards. '

Plenty of witnesses of defamation there. OP, if you were in the bar on the night the cigarettes were taken, you could put in a DP request for a copy of the footage yourself I would expect. If I was your friend, I would have no interest in walking into that bar ever again and I would be suing the publican for defamation, no question about it.