Scanner / Handheld - Marine Freqs

JFKIRELAND

Hi,
I hope someone can help me out here.

I am looking for a cheap marine radio or scanner to listen in to the locally picked up marine channels eg 16, 12, 83.
I did have an icom handheld which picked up these channels from my garage with no extra aerial, but alas, it is now at the bottom of the sea!
I don't fancy buying a new h/h, but would look to purchase a cheap scanner or air band radio, if it would work. Its just to have on from a curiosity point of view in the garage - ( I do have a VHF license though)

Does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks
JK

martinedwards

a baofeng handy will do it. dirt cheap they are as well.....

JFKIRELAND

Thanks for the reply Martin, which model would you suggest?

martinsvi

Baofeng are re-branding them selves and will be known as Pofung. Really there's no difference between those things, pick which ever you think is best looking.

I have to say, they are terrible for scanning - they are really slow, but if you know your frequencies, it will do the job.

have this channel - frequency table handy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_VHF_radio#Channels_and_frequencies

TomasH

I've a baofeng UV5R and for the money (less than 30 euros) they're great. The previous version the 3R doesn't get too many good reviews though.

JFKIRELAND

Thanks for the input guys, I've ordered the UV5RE variant.
I really want it to dual watch scan Channel 16 (156.800mhz) & Channel 23 (161.750 mhz) and lock on to whichever one there is a tx on.
I have read you can pick up ISS conversations - Is this possible? and then, can I set up multiple channel scans?

No doubt, I'll be back here when it arrives and I am utterly frustrated with how to set it up.

Thanks
JK

martinsvi

JFKIRELAND wrote: »

I have read you can pick up ISS conversations - Is this possible?

yes, this page has all the frequencies - http://www.zarya.info/Frequencies/FrequenciesISS.php

but remember, Baofeng only does 136-174 / 400-479.995 MHz, so most of the frequencies will be out of reach. You will also find this site handy, to help tracking ISS - http://www.n2yo.com/?s=25544 you need it to be above the horizon to be able to hear it. I've never really heard them transmitting, but then again, I rarely ever listen for them

TomasH

Check out miklorDOTcom It's a go to page for all the functionality.

You'll need to put a . instead of DOT as I can't post urls. :-)

watty

The Baofeng can only be used to transmit on Amateur bands with an Amateur Licence. It's not covered or permitted to use it on Marine Band to transmit with any licence, even a VHF marine licence.

Quaderno

I am not sure if the transmitter can be locked on an UV-R5, but you certainly wouldn't want to accidentally transmit on channel 16 or anywhere in the marine band really. So if the tx can't be disabled completely you should at least program a wide shift for the tx frequencies when keying in the marine channels which would take any inadvertently transmitted signals away from where they could cause trouble.
I admit that I have programmed channel 16 in my handheld as well, but with a -12.4Mhz shift for tx at the lowest possible power. So if I ever hit the ptt my signal will end up on 144.4MHz in the 2m amateur band instead of 156.800.
This will still be annoying as hell and illegal for you as long as you don't have a hamradio licence (I have), but at least you are unlikely to interfere with a situation where lives could be put at risk as a result. Remember that radios sometimes tend to go off and transmit out of your trouser pocket with a stuck button. This kind of interference can cause huge trouble for everyone else on the frequency and should really be prevented from ever happening.

P.S. I just read that you have a VHF licence, so you already knew all that...

JFKIRELAND

Thanks again for the input. I am aware of the limitations of broadcast. Are the marine freqs the same for Transmission and Receiving. I was thinking I just would setup the Rx settings. Is this possible? If not what offset would I use to keep it off the band?

martinsvi

AFAIK there are no offsets used on marine frequencies. I don't have my baofeng handy at the moment but see if you can set the offset as Quaderno suggested, if not - go the other way to >170MHz part of the band, it's assigned to Land Mobile but is dead quiet

watty

There are duplex channels where TX & RX is different. Possibly some of the Ship to Shore channels.

But as I said it's asking for trouble to use one of these on anything other than Amateur frequencies with an Amateur licence. A VHF Marine licence only applies to approved equipment and this isn't approved for anything.

JFKIRELAND

I'm not sure if you got my point Watty - I just want to receive - not transmit on marine frequencies. EI7DAR broadcast on the internet the marine freqs from the Louth area, as an example.

watty

Yes. but it has transmitter. So best to buy a radio that is ONLY a receiver. Then you don't risk accidental jamming or a fine or loss of a VHF Marine Licence.

Xantia

Any scanner worth it's weight would do the job.
HERE and Here are detailed listings

watty

Yes on 2nd link you can see you need a dual watch scanner to get both halves of the conversation, even on some simplex channels.
http://www.offshoreblue.com/communications/vhf-uk.php

Or two cheaper scanners.

As I said earlier many channels do use two frequencies.

humaxf1

Wouxun UVD1P receives Marine VHF just fine. What's all the fuss about?

Marine VHF (semi) duplex channels have a split of 4.60 MHz. After programming the split, you can toggle between the top and lower frequency by pressing the Scan button.

For example, Channel 83 is Dublin Coast Guard radio (161.775 & 157.175) Land station talks on top freq, boat station talks on lower freq.

Sh1tbag OToole

Is there any handheld that can be used for marine and amateur bands legally?

watty

Only for listening on Marine and TX on Amateur if you have an Amateur Licence.
Only for Marine Tx/RX only if you have a Marine VHF licence AND the equipment meets conditions of Marine Licence (ETSI).

It's impossible to have one piece of equipment legal for Marine TX that has TX on any other frequency.

Similarly, Amateur gear can't be legally used to Transmit on CB, PMR446 bands, SDR430, SDR 49Mhz, SDR 864MHz, 2.4GHz Video channels, 2.4GHz WiFi Channels even though those are "licence free" as only approved CE mark equipment for those bands is allowed on them (pre-licensed so to speak).

Any radio that only can receive (i.e. no transmit at all) can be used on all bands. Equipment you can transmit with on Amateur bands, when you have an Amateur licence is ONLY allowed to be used to Transmit on Amateur bands (even if it physically can transmit on any band). In the UK it's more restrictive, there you can only use a non-approved radio (home made, Vintage, Military) with a proper licence, the beginners must use dedicated low power Amateur only transmit gear.

If you have a Marine VHF licence, read it!

Sh1tbag OToole

watty wrote: »

Only for listening on Marine and TX on Amateur if you have an Amateur Licence.
Only for Marine Tx/RX only if you have a Marine VHF licence AND the equipment meets conditions of Marine Licence (ETSI).

It's impossible to have one piece of equipment legal for Marine TX that has TX on any other frequency.

Similarly, Amateur gear can't be legally used to Transmit on CB, PMR446 bands, SDR430, SDR 49Mhz, SDR 864MHz, 2.4GHz Video channels, 2.4GHz WiFi Channels even though those are "licence free" as only approved CE mark equipment for those bands is allowed on them (pre-licensed so to speak).

Any radio that only can receive (i.e. no transmit at all) can be used on all bands. Equipment you can transmit with on Amateur bands, when you have an Amateur licence is ONLY allowed to be used to Transmit on Amateur bands (even if it physically can transmit on any band). In the UK it's more restrictive, there you can only use a non-approved radio (home made, Vintage, Military) with a proper licence, the beginners must use dedicated low power Amateur only transmit gear.

If you have a Marine VHF licence, read it!

Thx for your useful reply do you happen to know is there any technical reason for this or just a legal one, just out of interest - would it be possible to make a marine VHF radio that becomes an amateur one when loaded with a different firmware? No marine license yet.

watty

There is no particular technical reason. Only the Army and Amateurs are trusted to use allocated frequencies for transmission and thus can have radio sets that transmit on any frequency.

All licence free gear and other licensed gear by LAW must only transmit on the band the user is entitled to use as there is less training and more risk of misuse or accidents. Even RTE NL etc can only buy authorised equipment.

You can modify some Commercial VHF or UHF and Marine or CB to do Amateur bands and then a licensed Amateur can listen on any band but only transmit on Amateur band.

Modifying ANY equipment for use on CB, 49MHz, 430MHz SDR, PMR446, Commercial VHF / UHF mobile, Marine HF or VHF, Aeronautical HF or VHF or SDR 864MHz, 2.4GHz, 5.8GHz, Band II VHF FM makes it illegal to use on those bands for transmission. Only unmodified approved equipment may be used for Non-Amateur use (all of EU, USA, Canada and most other countries).

GekkePrutser

There have been some dual-use radios carrying the proper approvals though. But they are extremely rare.

I know of one, the Yaesu VXA-700, which was primarily an approved Airband TRX but could also transmit on the 2m amateur band (as long as the user was a licensed amateur of course). Handy for Amateurs who are also aviators. Though it's not allowed to use the amateur band from the air or near an airport, it would be handy to have a set to hand when you get to your destination.

It's not sold anymore though, later versions had the 2m part removed. I guess the market was simply too small.

watty

Or it didn't meet approvals in most markets...

martinsvi

GekkePrutser wrote: »

There have been some dual-use radios carrying the proper approvals though. But they are extremely rare.

I know of one, the Yaesu VXA-700, which was primarily an approved Airband TRX but could also transmit on the 2m amateur band (as long as the user was a licensed amateur of course). Handy for Amateurs who are also aviators. Though it's not allowed to use the amateur band from the air or near an airport, it would be handy to have a set to hand when you get to your destination.

It's not sold anymore though, later versions had the 2m part removed. I guess the market was simply too small.

you wouldn't use it from the air on amateur bands anyway. When in air, you have to listen to the frequency of the airspace you are operating in, especially if you're in controlled airspace - you can't change the frequency without ATC approval. In other words, there is no place for ham chat on a plane.
That said, I can't imagine a HT radio being used in a plane at all.. I'm sure some people do it in self built aircraft or as a means of a backup system, but at the end of the day it seems very impractical for number of reasons. Only ground stations use HTs

also there's nothing stopping you from using amateur radio in a plane or near airports

GekkePrutser

martinsvi wrote: »

you wouldn't use it from the air on amateur bands anyway. When in air, you have to listen to the frequency of the airspace you are operating in, especially if you're in controlled airspace - you can't change the frequency without ATC approval. In other words, there is no place for ham chat on a plane.
That said, I can't imagine a HT radio being used in a plane at all.. I'm sure some people do it in self built aircraft or as a means of a backup system, but at the end of the day it seems very impractical for number of reasons. Only ground stations use HTs

also there's nothing stopping you from using amateur radio in a plane or near airports

I know of some private pilots that bring a HT for backup only. But indeed, it's not very handy due to the noisy environment. In fact most of them have "NATO" adapters so they can plug in their headsets into the HT if the main radio fails, this alleviates most of the drawbacks.

But the Amateur license does not permit using it from the air or near an airport, so that's what's stopping you

"7. An Amateur Mobile Station may not be established or used at sea (other than
as part of Maritime Mobile Operation) or within any estuary, dock or harbour
or in the vicinity of an airport or radio navigation installation" from Comreg 09/45R1.

I can't find a reference to transmitting from the air but I know I've seen it mentioned before that it's not allowed.

watty wrote: »

Or it didn't meet approvals in most markets...

True, I'm not even sure if it was sold here. I did see it advertised in Holland and Germany. I just wanted to point it out as I was surprised myself to have seen it back in the day but I know its an exception of the rule

martinsvi

GekkePrutser wrote: »

"7. An Amateur Mobile Station may not be established or used at sea (other than
as part of Maritime Mobile Operation) or within any estuary, dock or harbour
or in the vicinity of an airport or radio navigation installation" from Comreg 09/45R1.

oh my, I apologise for spreading lies, for some reason I thought that for aeronautical operations /MM rule applies, meaning if you have a permission of the pilot (e.g. yourself) you're free to proceed. It's an odd rule thou, as other countries allow it
http://hamradioireland.blogspot.ie/2010/12/my-first-ever-aeronautical-mobile-am.html

GekkePrutser

martinsvi wrote: »

oh my, I apologise for spreading lies, for some reason I thought that for aeronautical operations /MM rule applies, meaning if you have a permission of the pilot (e.g. yourself) you're free to proceed. It's an odd rule thou, as other countries allow it
http://hamradioireland.blogspot.ie/2010/12/my-first-ever-aeronautical-mobile-am.html

I wasn't accusing you of lying Just discussing based on what I've seen. I'm happy to be corrected, in fact I'd love to try it out myself, the VHF range must be enormous from 3-4000 feet. I just recall to have read somewhere that it wasn't allowed so I wouldn't try it unless I was certain it's allowed.

I couldn't find anything in the license regulations though, it only mentions the above about airports and radio installations, nothing about on board airplanes. But I suppose those could be considered to contain a radio installation.

watty

within any estuary, dock or harbour
or in the vicinity of an airport or radio navigation installation

Inside the dock, harbour or airport security perimeter is obvious. But not all harbours and airstrips have them.

The Shannon Estuary?

Comreg is unable to clarify what " vicinity" means relating to an Estuary.

How do you know if you are near a "radio navigation installation."

So outside of a security perimeter the wording of the regulation is meaningless.

watty

VHF range must be enormous from 3-4000 feet.

Seeing as a pocket handheld and rubber duck on VHF works two way with ISS (for minutes), yes the range is much more than 4,000 feet. From a Kerry hilltop I have worked the Mt Lienster Repeater on 2m handheld at 1W (normal conditions).

GekkePrutser

watty wrote: »

Seeing as a pocket handheld and rubber duck on VHF works two way with ISS (for minutes), yes the range is much more than 4,000 feet. From a Kerry hilltop I have worked the Mt Lienster Repeater on 2m handheld at 1W (normal conditions).

Sorry I meant from an altitude of 4000 feet Higher than that is not normally done in a small aeroplane unless you had some special manoeuvres to practice.

And I agree the law is very vague on the vicinity thing. If it was more than just the perimeter that would mean that most of Galway city centre would be out of bounds, as the docks are only a stone throw from Eyre square and the main streets. I'd guess the law is intentionally vague so that they can take action if actual interference issues arise and leave things be when there's no problems.

TheBeerJedi

Anyone know the frequency P4 used by the Irish Coast Guard for private communication? (not the P4 that is also M2 on Icom radios.)
Cheers.