dosing question

Muckit

I dosed yearling cattle with bimectin injection earlier in summer.

Some have a bit of a cough again so want to do them again.

Should I use a different product now? Or does it matter?

Thanks

Deano7

Muckit wrote: »

I dosed yearling cattle with bimectin injection earlier in summer.

Some have a bit of a cough again so want to do them again.

Should I use a different product now? Or does it matter?

Thanks

I reckon using the cheapest drench possible twice, 6 weeks apart is best.

Base price

You would be better using an oral Fenbendazole based oral drench this time around.
However if you are concerned about the cattle coughing then I would also inject them with the appropriate dose of Trodax.
You could also use Levafas Diamond oral dose which is a combination worm and fluke drench. However word of warning be very careful when using it and do not over dose as the active ingredient - Levamosole is a lot more aggressive than Fenbendazole, in my experience.
Over the years we have had more cases of pneumonia after using Levafas Diamond than Panacur, Albex or other Febendazole based products combined with an injection of Trodax.
It is not advisable to use the same wormer again and again as it leads to a build up of resistance in intestinal worm/larvae.
Since you have used an Ivermectin based product in the first instance then I would not use it again next time around.

Base price

Deano7 wrote: »

I reckon using the cheapest drench possible twice, 6 weeks apart is best.

That is one of the worst pieces of advice that I have read on this forum.
You do not even quantify how long you keep your cattle, whether they are reared on site or bought in as calves, weanlings, yearlings etc. Are you keeping them as bullocks or as breeding stock.

jt65

Base price wrote: »

You would be better using an oral Fenbendazole based oral drench this time around.
However if you are concerned about the cattle coughing then I would also inject them with the appropriate dose of Trodax.
You could also use Levafas Diamond oral dose which is a combination worm and fluke drench. However word of warning be very careful when using it and do not over dose as the active ingredient - Levamosole is a lot more aggressive than Fenbendazole, in my experience.
Over the years we have had more cases of pneumonia after using Levafas Diamond than Panacur, Albex or other Febendazole based products combined with an injection of Trodax.
It is not advisable to use the same wormer again and again as it leads to a build up of resistance in intestinal worm/larvae.
Since you have used an Ivermectin based product in the first instance then I would not use it again next time around.

Base price wrote: »

That is one of the worst pieces of advice that I have read on this forum.
You do not even quantify how long you keep your cattle, whether they are reared on site or bought in as calves, weanlings, yearlings etc. Are you keeping them as bullocks or as breeding stock.

<mod snip>


Argue the facts not the person.

greysides

Coughing cattle needing a fluke dose is an old wives tale about 99% of the time. Any possible benefit would be, in the general, due to either improving overall health of the liver thus improving an organ that has an important role in the immune system, or, in the specific, killing ectopic fluke which would be an unusual occurrence. This time of year, given the state of this years lamb livers currently seen at PM I'd say that fluke is only starting and probably in the most high risk of locations.

greysides

Deano7 wrote: »

I reckon using the cheapest drench possible twice, 6 weeks apart is best.

The cheapest drench is likely to be levamisole based, for which 6 weeks is a long time. 3-4 weeks would be more regular... unless faecal sampling says you can go longer. Faecal sampling is something there will have to be more done of in the future to preserve the doses we have from resistance development.

Hoose can come on very quickly and even inside 3-4 week dosing with white or clear doses!

Greengrass1

Grey I dosed calves 4 weeks ago with ivomec super.
Did a lovely Job on them, starting to cough a bit now again.
What would you recommend I use this time?
The box said I shouldn't need to dose until week 5

Deano7

Base price wrote: »

That is one of the worst pieces of advice that I have read on this forum.
You do not even quantify how long you keep your cattle, whether they are reared on site or bought in as calves, weanlings, yearlings etc. Are you keeping them as bullocks or as breeding stock.

It dosent matter how long you have the cattle or what type, I wouldn't go buying a fancy injection or pour on when a cheap drench does the same thing and lads wonder why they're not making money. Every purchase must be analysed!!!

greysides

Gg1, you're the man on the spot and it's a judgement call. On one hand, a little coughing in a few may help build up immunity (one of the criticisms of using Ivomec thwarted) but leave it too long and you'll have calves in serious trouble.....
If you have to leave them on the same pastures they have been on then a persistent dose is highly useful. If you can dose and move to aftergrass then other doses are fine. Until the Ivomec-types came along that's what had to be done.

I think I'd look at the coughing severity and numbers coughing and go from there.

Hoose is different to stomach worms in that it can have an explosive onset so if I decided not to dose it would be on a day-by-day basis until the five weeks were up.

Greengrass1

greysides wrote: »

Gg1, you're the man on the spot and it's a judgement call. On one hand, a little coughing in a few may help build up immunity (one of the criticisms of using Ivomec thwarted) but leave it too long and you'll have calves in serious trouble.....
If you have to leave them on the same pastures they have been on then a persistent dose is highly useful. If you can dose and move to aftergrass then other doses are fine. Until the Ivomec-types came along that's what had to be done.

I think I'd look at the coughing severity and numbers coughing and go from there.

Hoose is different to stomach worms in that it can have an explosive onset so if I decided not to dose it would be on a day-by-day basis until the five weeks were up.

There getting fresh grass each week so getting the best. Other yrs I would have used a white dose on them which did fine but these are a better bunch this yr.
There's probably 5 out of 30 coughing.
I'll have a look at them tonight after milking and see

greysides

That fresh grass, has it been grazed previously during this season?

If it has, it may be fresh but it's not 'clean'.

Greengrass1

greysides wrote: »

That fresh grass, has it been grazed previously during this season?

If it has, it may be fresh but it's not 'clean'.

There going in front of cows/heifers.
Were on after grass up till 4wks ago but that's all gone now until another 10-14days

onyerbikepat

Greysides,
Is there any need to do calves for fluke in the first garzing season?
Generally I wait till a month/6 weeks after housing to do them,

Muckit

Some great stuff being trashed out here. Keep it coming. Learning all the time. This whole area definitely not my forte.

I dosed this evening but hadn't looked at this tread since day l posted!!

Right or wrong l went with the bimectin injection again. I like the injection as l find it easy to adminster by injection gun , l know all the product is gone into them and there's no wrestling with heads.

Greysides, bimectin does for hoose also doesn't it?

greysides

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Greysides,
Is there any need to do calves for fluke in the first garzing season?
Generally I wait till a month/6 weeks after housing to do them,

Not during it but after it, at housing or just after. How long after depends on the characteristics of the product you intend to use.

Muckit wrote: »

Greysides, bimectin does for hoose also doesn't it?

Yes.

Farrell

Agree, very educational!
So would I be correct in thinking that dosing suckler cows & calves every 6-8 weeks with Albex is a waste of time & money, & best to do at turn out & after put in?

greysides

Suckler cows... probably just at housing but watch for exceptions.
Suckler calves... more variable...probably once over the summer and at housing but watch for Hoose. A lot depends on grassland management etc.

Rather than rules of thumb, a few faecal samples would allow for informed decisions.

Farrell

greysides wrote: »

Suckler cows... probably just at housing but watch for exceptions.
Suckler calves... more variable...probably once over the summer and at housing but watch for Hoose. A lot depends on grassland management etc.

Rather than rules of thumb, a few faecal samples would allow for informed decisions.

Yea think the sampl8 & health plan could be next step

reps4

so, following on from above, my question is..

i use injectiable bimectin, ivomec or kilomec. all seem to be ivermectin based.

if advice is to use a different active ingredient so they are not getting immunity, what is this active ingredient and what are the most common/best trade names for them.

cheers..

just do it

There is always the option of asking your vet. The advise is free, he'll know your farm and area, and advise based on your stock type etc etc etc.

greysides

Rotation would be best on a yearly or two yearly basis. Theoretically allowing worms to become susceptible to the doses not in use. This is only likely to be effective when anthelmintic resistance is in the very early phase of resistance development, when resistance gene frequencies are very low, long before anthelmintic resistance is detectable in the worm population on the farm and when natural selection might reduce the prevalence of parasites containing resistance alleles. Hopefully that is still the case in cattle.

The three groups usually discussed are the 'white doses', the benzimidazoles.... Panacur, Systamex, Valbazen.; the 'yellows', those than contain levamisole... Nilverm; and the 'clears', the avermectins.. Ivomec, Dectomax, Cydectin.

Given the variety of generics it's a big job to list all the sales names for each of the drugs so you'll have to read the labels.

The idea is to swap groups and not within groups.

For worms at this time of year, any of the groups are satisfactory but only the avermectins offer a persistence of effect. The others work immediately, and once gone the worms start to accumulate immediately again.