Garda and rent arrears

piperh

Ok long story cut short we have a young person staying with us. Up until recently they were renting a room in a student house. Circumstances beyond their control meant they left owing a large portion of the rent. They got a call from the gard in the area saying if it wasn't sorted within a week there would be a garda visiting them.

No need for the pay the rent comments as they know it has to be paid and we certainly don't condone not paying but as I said circumstances meant they were not and still aren't in a position to.

My question is can and will the gard do more than a threatening phone call?

foggy_lad

piperh wrote: »

Ok long story cut short we have a young person staying with us. Up until recently they were renting a room in a student house. Circumstances beyond their control meant they left owing a large portion of the rent. They got a call from the gard in the area saying if it wasn't sorted within a week there would be a garda visiting them.

No need for the pay the rent comments as they know it has to be paid and we certainly don't condone not paying but as I said circumstances meant they were not and still aren't in a position to.

My question is can and will the gard do more than a threatening phone call?

A Garda should not even be making such a phone call!

If you got the Gardas name you should report him to your nearest station for demanding money with menaces.

Owing rent is a civil matter and there is nothing the Gardai can do about it.

Th3B1tcH

personally I would connact the LL and make agreement to pay in installments if it is cant pay now,
Its probally a friend in guards (if even a real guard) as its not a garda matter they need bring through claims court but better to make an arrangment to get it sorted without dragging out.

If its a case not agreeing with whats ment be owed they need work out between them get reciepts etc

Atlantic Dawn

How do you know it was a call from an actual Garda? Sounds like corruption or an individual impersonating a Garda.

foggy_lad

OP you should make a complaint to the Gardai ombudsmans office as this is definite misbehaviour on the part of the Garda making the threatening phone call. The Garda could even be the LAndlord or have some financial involvement in the properties being rented. Years ago many of the worst student sh1tbox bedsits were owned or managed by serving or retired members.

Complain here http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/complaints/complaints.html

Atlantic Dawn

Th3B1tcH wrote: »

Its probally a friend in guards as its not a garda matter they need bring through claims court but better to make an arrangment to get it sorted without dragging out.

If its a case not agreeing with whats ment be owed they need work out between them get reciepts etc

In which case they could get in to trouble, data protection and abuse of power/something you would accept in Iran etc.

the_syco

If the Garda comes over, demand to see their badge. Then tell them that you have noted their badge number, and that you'll ask their superintendent regarding the Garda using his position as a Garda to demand cash.

Also, depending on how dirty the landlord plays, the Garda visit may not be about rent, but about damages, theft, etc. As I said, depends how low the landlord would go.

Atlantic Dawn

the_syco wrote: »

If the Garda comes over, demand to see their badge. Then tell them that you have noted their badge number, and that you'll ask their superintendent regarding the Garda using his position as a Garda to demand cash.

Also, depending on how dirty the landlord plays, the Garda visit may not be about rent, but about damages, theft, etc. As I said, depends how low the landlord would go.

And even better record it all on camera, see if he is willing to destroy his career for a mate.

Bepolite

Call the guards, it's not a guard. The idiot claiming to be a Guard is going to get a nasty wee shock. Please tell me they didn't hide their telephone number?

piperh

Thank you all. I thought it was very odd but having checked out the number called from it was definitely a garda station. The call left the young person very shaken and worried.
I was in the room when they took the call and overhead the gard, with hindsight i wish I'd taken the phone off them. It was clearly a call intended to worry the person into paying.

There will be an arrangement made with the landlord to repay as soon as the person is in a position to do so but ss the last contact was a msg saying any items left in house would be destroyed and not to bother replying it seemed pointless contacting them until in a position to pay.

The_Conductor

OP- The Garda Ombudsman's office will take a very dim view of this.
If at all possible- do not use the mobile phone- borrow one from elsewhere- so the call history etc on the phone is kept intact- and make a complaint- asap.

Yes- the extenant owes the money- however, it is not in the remit of the Garda to get involved here.

Mrs OBumble

Before you go making too many complaints, I'd suggesting being quite certain that the young person is not involved in any activities that would be of interest to the guarda.

Yes, I agree that their behaviour is totally out of line in threatening a garda visit.

But if the LL is a guard, then calling from the station on their tea break is not in itself wrong (unless their policies say "no personal calls at all" - which very few employers do).

And if the young person is involved in some illegal activities, then your average guard will have very little difficulty ensuring that there's proof that s/he came to guarda attention for some other reason.

Santa Cruz

This is an entirely civil matter. The Garda should not be using his position for this. If you know his name/station certainly a complaint should be made. It would put manners on the landlord too

The_Conductor

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But if the LL is a guard, then calling from the station on their tea break is not in itself wrong (unless their policies say "no personal calls at all" - which very few employers do).

My understanding of the OP's post is that the Garda is making the call on behalf of the landlord in question- and is not themselves the landlord.

Perhaps the OP can clarify this.

Also- the Gardai, alongside most public sector bodies, do have policies on using official phones for 'unofficial business'.

Tigger

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Before you go making too many complaints, I'd suggesting being quite certain that the young person is not involved in any activities that would be of interest to the guarda.

Yes, I agree that their behaviour is totally out of line in threatening a garda visit.

But if the LL is a guard, then calling from the station on their tea break is not in itself wrong (unless their policies say "no personal calls at all" - which very few employers do).

And if the young person is involved in some illegal activities, then your average guard will have very little difficulty ensuring that there's proof that s/he came to guarda attention for some other reason.

If the guard said I'm a guard and he then said a guard will visit you if you don't pay then that's demanding money with menace
Very wrong even on tea break

piperh

No the young person involved wouldn't have come to the attention of the gards at anytime. They are generally very solitary and quiet.

Yes the gard was calling on behalf of the landlord, I have no idea what the ll did previously as they are now retired. It is a very small community so it is entirely possible the ll knew the gard but I wouldn't know for sure. The gard made a point of saying he was garda ..... and where he was from, implying it was an official call.

The garda actually said if the arrears aren't paid within 7 days he would be calling out to the house as the matter needs resolving. The young person tried to explain they had no way to pay but the gard just said it was a serious matter.

I do not mean this thread to be gard bashing but it does appear to be a case of abuse of power if they can't get involved in rent disputes.

sham58107

piperh wrote: »

No the young person involved wouldn't have come to the attention of the gards at anytime. They are generally very solitary and quiet.

Yes the gard was calling on behalf of the landlord, I have no idea what the ll did previously as they are now retired. It is a very small community so it is entirely possible the ll knew the gard but I wouldn't know for sure. The gard made a point of saying he was garda ..... and where he was from, implying it was an official call.

Are you quite sure there is nothing else,the Garda would be very stupid to get involved in this and make a call from station as with all recent publicity.He would have used his own phone.
And if what you say is the case it is not even a civil matter as it has not gone to court.
Just someone who is owed money asking a Garda to make official call.
Sounds dodgy.

foggy_lad

piperh wrote: »

Thank you all. I thought it was very odd but having checked out the number called from it was definitely a garda station. The call left the young person very shaken and worried.
I was in the room when they took the call and overhead the gard, with hindsight i wish I'd taken the phone off them. It was clearly a call intended to worry the person into paying.

There will be an arrangement made with the landlord to repay as soon as the person is in a position to do so but ss the last contact was a msg saying any items left in house would be destroyed and not to bother replying it seemed pointless contacting them until in a position to pay.

Do not delete that message if at all possible!

The first move here is for the young person with your help to contact the GSOC and make a formal complaint against the Garda in question.

Then ye should contact the PRTB and make a complaint against the Landlord. The LL does not have to be registered for the young person to make a complaint.

The call from the Garda was demanding money with menaces and should be detailed in the complaint to the PRTB, Also detail the circumstances that led to the person having to leave owing so much rent arrears and what communication they might have had with the LL over the arrears.

Zamboni

Garda abuse of power - Yes, he clearly should not have intervened on behalf of the landlord.

But hold on a minute.

This tenant left a tenancy owing rent arrears.
Now - bearing in mind this is a "young person" in a "small community" what is best thing to do here?

Pay the arrears as soon as possible and have the matter closed?
Or
Report the garda to the ombudsman and severely piss of a person of significant authority in a "small community" in which they have to live?

Sometimes its better to do the smart thing than the right thing.

Atlantic Dawn

Zamboni wrote: »

Garda abuse of power - Yes, he clearly should not have intervened on behalf of the landlord.

But hold on a minute.

This tenant left a tenancy owing rent arrears.
Now - bearing in mind this is a "young person" in a "small community" what is best thing to do here?

Pay the arrears as soon as possible and have the matter closed?
Or
Report the garda to the ombudsman and severely piss of a person of significant authority in a "small community" in which they have to live?

Sometimes its better to do the smart thing than the right thing.

I would pay the arrears as soon as possible and report the garda to the ombudsman.

If it were to remain unreported who is to know what additional abuse of power that Garda will take, could end up being another Donegal.

piperh

sham58107 wrote: »

Are you quite sure there is nothing else,the Garda would be very stupid to get involved in this and make a call from station as with all recent publicity.He would have used his own phone.
And if what you say is the case it is not even a civil matter as it has not gone to court.
Just someone who is owed money asking a Garda to make official call.
Sounds dodgy.

Yes quite sure. I spoke to ll after the person came to us and the only issue is rent arrears. I do not know if the gard was calling in an official capacity but he certainly introduced himself as gard.... and said a visit would follow if not resolved.

I think following responses and advice on here a visit seems unlikely and the call was a scare tactic of a gard doing a mate a favour.

_taytothief

You have to report the Garda. What a scummy way to behave.

handlemaster

This person is an adult. The issue here is they did not honor their committment. They need to act like an adult and spell out to the landlord when he/she will be paid. Just saying i cant pay isnt good enought.

P.s. Garda dont interfer in civil matters

piperh

handlemaster wrote: »

This person is an adult. The issue here is they did not honor their committment. They need to act like an adult and spell out to the landlord when he/she will be paid. Just saying i cant pay isnt good enought.

P.s. Garda dont interfer in civil matters

The tone of your reply is unnecessarily harsh. Especially as the fact they owe the rent is not disputed however as I've said they are not in a position to repay and the ll knew/knows this. It was not done deliberately or maliciously, yes the person is technically an adult but that does not mean they have the smarts of an adult.

And you saying the gard don't get involved in civil cases is not true in this case. I have no reason to come on here and spend time fabricating stories, I even stated I didn't know if the gard was calling officially but stating he was a gard implies he wanted the receiver to think it was otherwise he'd have just said my name is Joe Bloggs and I'm calling about the arrears

nxbyveromdwjpg

handlemaster wrote: »

P.s. Garda dont interfer in civil matters

But this one did, hence discussion.

handlemaster

nm wrote: »

But this one did, hence discussion.

Your missing the point. It doesnt matter what the guard said. No standing on civil matter.

Del2005

handlemaster wrote: »

Your missing the point. It doesnt matter what the guard said. No standing on civil matter.

Yes it does. As you said this is nothing to do with the Gardai, so by a Garda calling someone and introducing themselves as Garda xxxxx means that they are abusing their power and intimidating the person into paying up by saying I'll be there in 7 days. Even if the LL was a Garda they can't do that so by getting a friend in the force to make the call is a major issue that the Gardai won't be too happy to hear about, as the Garda in question is way out of their jurisdiction and issuing threats over money!

foggy_lad

handlemaster wrote: »

Your missing the point. It doesnt matter what the guard said. No standing on civil matter.

But it t may well be a criminal matter as this garda appears to have demanded money with menaces which they cannot and should lose their job and pension if proven

handlemaster

foggy_lad wrote: »

But it t may well be a criminal matter as this garda appears to have demanded money with menaces which they cannot and should lose their job and pension if proven

Yes. But to The issue of unpaid rent it may as well have been the postman calling.

Pro Hoc Vice

Zamboni wrote: »

Garda abuse of power - Yes, he clearly should not have intervened on behalf of the landlord.

But hold on a minute.

This tenant left a tenancy owing rent arrears.
Now - bearing in mind this is a "young person" in a "small community" what is best thing to do here?

Pay the arrears as soon as possible and have the matter closed?
Or
Report the garda to the ombudsman and severely piss of a person of significant authority in a "small community" in which they have to live?

Sometimes its better to do the smart thing than the right thing.

It is exactly the attitude in bold that has lead to the serious erosion of the perception of AGS, it's the sure don't piss them off they have the power that has led to serious breaches of people's rights in the past number of years.

The person can both accept his debt and stand up to bullies it's not an either or situation.

RustyNut

handlemaster wrote: »

P.s. Garda shouldn't interfer in civil matters

FYP

Pro Hoc Vice

handlemaster wrote: »

This person is an adult. The issue here is they did not honor their committment. They need to act like an adult and spell out to the landlord when he/she will be paid. Just saying i cant pay isnt good enought.

P.s. Garda dont interfer in civil matters

Just saying can't pay is in fact good enough, it may lead to serious civil remedies, but while the LL is entitled to his judgement no court can order a person to pay what they don't have. That of course may lead to serious black mark on the person credit rating or even worse.

To owe money has not been a crime for a few hundred years but thankfully http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0011.html#sec11 section 11 still is.

Larry Wildman

The issue here is not a Garda trying to resolve a problem...it's the degenerate and deliquent tenant who won't pay his rent.

Perhaps if the Gardai intervened in situtations like this a little more, there would be less bad debts.

Calhoun

Larry Wildman wrote: »

The issue here is not a Garda trying to resolve a problem...it's the degenerate and deliquent tenant who won't pay his rent.

Perhaps if the Gardai intervened in situtations like this a little more, there would be less bad debts.

Yes because the ends justify the means, the tenant is wrong for sure but the casual shrugging off abuse of authority is alarming.

Pro Hoc Vice

Larry Wildman wrote: »

The issue here is not a Garda trying to resolve a problem...it's the degenerate and deliquent tenant who won't pay his rent.

Perhaps if the Gardai intervened in situtations like this a little more, there would be less bad debts.

There is a complete legal system with serious possible outcomes for people who do not pay what's due. It's is not criminal and the valuable time of AGS should not be used to help business men who could not be bothered to have proper credit control in place.

The_Morrigan

Larry Wildman wrote: »

The issue here is not a Garda trying to resolve a problem...it's the degenerate and deliquent tenant who won't pay his rent.

Perhaps if the Gardai intervened in situtations like this a little more, there would be less bad debts.

The issue here is whatever is in the OP...as for the Gardai intervening in situations like this....the Victorians tried this with Debtors prisons and it didn't really end well for anyone.
Try staying on topic and avoid insulting the tenant.

piperh

Larry Wildman wrote: »

The issue here is not a Garda trying to resolve a problem...it's the degenerate and deliquent tenant who won't pay his rent.

Perhaps if the Gardai intervened in situtations like this a little more, there would be less bad debts.

Wow!! Just in case you've misread my previous posts it's not a case of won't but can't at the moment. I have never said they don't accept responsibility for their debt.

dar100

Tell the LL to keep the deposit.

Report the Garda, and pursue him the way he had pursued you

Zamboni

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

It is exactly the attitude in bold that has lead to the serious erosion of the perception of AGS, it's the sure don't piss them off they have the power that has led to serious breaches of people's rights in the past number of years.

The person can both accept his debt and stand up to bullies it's not an either or situation.

It's easy to preach from a high horse when you are not the young person in this situation who would have to live with the consequences.

the_syco

Zamboni wrote: »

It's easy to preach from a high horse when you are not the young person in this situation who would have to live with the consequences.

Not much of a high horse; more like an alternative view.

You say for the person to pay the debt off as soon as possible, but the OP has said a number of times that they cannot do that at this time. Pro Hoc Vice has said that paying the debt and making a complaint is not an XOR situation, and thus the young person may make a plan to pay of the debt, but at the same time report the Gardai.