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  • 16-08-2014 12:46am
    #1
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭


    LostBoy101 wrote: »
    The most simple thing you have to understand about the CAO is supply and demand.
    The exact same thing goes for jobs... a reminder to all of you planning on doing an arts degree.


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    #2
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Clandestine wrote: »
    The exact same thing goes for jobs... a reminder to all of you planning on doing an arts degree.
    All right. That ends the jumping in to piss on Arts degrees; that's the third post of yours I've noticed in the last 3 days out of ... 3? ... in this forum.

    Lots of people in the country have good jobs who started with an Arts degree; depends on what they had the cop-on and the gumption to do next.

    And yes, just at the moment I would actually agree that it's probably not the most direct route to a guaranteed immediate job, but what is? ... architecture? ... civil engineering? ... law?

    Few enough things apart from CS / courses for the IT sector which is pretty much the only area which is actually booming, and can pretty much absorb all graduates.

    In any case, take your sniping elsewhere, ty.


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    #3
    Hollister11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    Why do people slag arts degrees ?


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    #4
    flump_master
    Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭flump_master


    Clandestine wrote: »
    The exact same thing goes for jobs... a reminder to all of you planning on doing an arts degree.

    A significant majority of secondary school teachers would have done arts degrees. None of us would be here with our leaving cert completed without them and their supposedly "useless" degree


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    #5
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    Lots of people in the country have good jobs who started with an Arts degree; depends on what they had the cop-on and the gumption to do next.

    Few enough things apart from CS / courses for the IT sector which is pretty much the only area which is actually booming, and can pretty much absorb all graduates.

    In any case, take your sniping elsewhere, ty.
    Some of these kids are planning on spending potentially 4 years of their lives + thousands of euros on degrees which are known to have high unemployment rates. These things they want to study (journalism, theater) can easily be studied in their own time, saving them time and money. Not to mention, if they do manage to get work most people with an arts degree don't get work directly related to their field.

    Really, whats wrong with me giving them forewarning or advice? You can call me what you like, but I'm trying to help them here. The jobs situation is a lot worse than people realise, and kids not finding work and hopping on the dole after they graduate is a terrible thing. Depression and suicide rates are going up for a reason, and the main ones are lack of employment and poor outlook for the future. These kids are probably only going to get one shot at this, I want that shot to be on target for them.


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    #6
    MightyMandarin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭MightyMandarin


    Hollister11 wrote: »
    Why do people slag arts degrees ?

    The same reason they slag "jam making" courses; it's easy to slag people who didn't achieve as high as them in the LC.


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    #7
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    MightyMandarin wrote: »
    The same reason they slag "jam making" courses; it's easy to slag people who didn't achieve as high as them in the LC.
    I did average in my leaving cert and I got a solid course. Many arts degrees are over 400 points. Points don't determine employability or success however. Supply and demand does.


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    #8
    flump_master
    Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭flump_master


    Clandestine wrote: »
    Some of these kids are planning on spending potentially 4 years of their lives + thousands of euros on degrees which are known to have high unemployment rates. These things they want to study (journalism, theater) can easily be studied in their own time, saving them time and money. Not to mention, if they do manage to get work most people with an arts degree don't get work directly related to their field.

    Really, whats wrong with me giving them forewarning or advice? You can call me what you like, but I'm trying to help them here. The jobs situation is a lot worse than people realise, and kids not finding work and hopping on the dole after they graduate is a terrible thing. Depression and suicide rates are going up for a reason, and the main ones are lack of employment and poor outlook for the future. These kids are probably only going to get one shot at this, I want that shot to be on target for them.

    And you feel the CAO predictions thread is the place to do this? The students hanging around here have enough to worry about without someone telling them that they will be unemployed, depressed and at risk of suicide by getting a BA.

    Perhaps you might consider that spending four years and thousands of euro studying something in which they have no interest and zero passion for for the sake of career prospects would be similarly damaging?


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    #9
    MightyMandarin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭MightyMandarin


    Clandestine wrote: »
    Some of these kids are planning on spending potentially 4 years of their lives + thousands of euros on degrees which are known to have high unemployment rates. These things they want to study (journalism, theater) can easily be studied in their own time, saving them time and money. Not to mention, if they do manage to get work most people with an arts degree don't get work directly related to their field.

    Really, whats wrong with me giving them forewarning or advice? You can call me what you like, but I'm trying to help them here. The jobs situation is a lot worse than people realise, and kids not finding work and hopping on the dole after they graduate is a terrible thing. Depression and suicide rates are going up for a reason, and the main ones are lack of employment and poor outlook for the future. These kids are probably only going to get one shot at this, I want that shot to be on target for them.

    Are you actually serious? For starters journalism is a pretty difficult profession to enter and is not something you can do 'in your own time', same goes for 'theater', I assume you mean drama.

    Plenty of professions, which up until the recession, were popular courses have high unemployment rates, Architecture being an example. So studying in a direct field doesn't always guarantee employment.

    Lastly, please don't patronise them as 'kids', they are young people, much like you and I, and for one reason or another haven't been able to find a subject or field which they see as their future.


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    #10
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    Hollister11 wrote: »
    Why do people slag arts degrees ?
    -High rates of unemployment
    -Many degrees in the department (just like the humanities) have no applicable use in the real world. They are learned to simply be "retaught"
    -Arts degrees are usually gotten because people have decided "I'll do what i really want" rather than "I'll do what society needs". I'm not saying people shouldn't do what interests them, but if that was the case we'd have next to no people making electronics, and millions of people wanting to be writers or film directors.
    -Colleges exist to make money. College's can also provide courses which they know will not make students employable. Remember that


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    #11
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    So they should all do IT degrees, whether they have the slightest aptitude or interest in them? ... and end up frustrated, depressed employees in a job they hate?

    An arts degree is the route to suicide? What the hell?!

    If you were so concerned for these young people, you would have been in and out all year, supporting and helping them, not parachuting in to demonstrate the chip on your shoulder.

    Enough.

    Lets's be clear: this is a mod instruction.

    Drop the subject.
    MightyMandarin wrote: »
    The same reason they slag "jam making" courses; it's easy to slag people who didn't achieve as high as them in the LC.

    Many people on all Arts course go in on 500+ points, even though given the volume of places the cut-off is normally lower. Most Arts TSMs in Trinity have cut-offs well above 500.


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    #12
    Ompala
    Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭Ompala


    Hollister11 wrote: »
    Why do people slag arts degrees ?

    In my own experience, its because after finishing undergrad in Arts a lot of people struggle badly to get a job from it.
    You really need to do a Masters to get a job from it to me anyways.
    However, there are several other areas not doing so great either that don't get picked on half as much, there are even a lot of science graduates unemployed atm, but it everyone seems to ignore that one.
    To be fair though, Civil Engineering does seem to be coming back strong.
    Better off picking something you enjoy anyways, at the end of the day you want to be happy with what you are studying, why anyone would put anything above that is frankly very stupid


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    #13
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Ompala wrote: »
    In my own experience, its because after finishing undergrad in Arts a lot of people struggle badly to get a job from it.
    You really need to do a Masters to get a job from it to me anyways.
    That's always been true though.

    It's meant to be a more general degree from which you specialise vocationally with a professional Diploma or Masters.


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    #14
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    MightyMandarin wrote: »
    Are you actually serious? For starters journalism is a pretty difficult profession to enter and is not something you can do 'in your own time', same goes for 'theater', I assume you mean drama.

    So studying in a direct field doesn't always guarantee employment.

    Lastly, please don't patronise them as 'kids', they are young people, much like you and I, and for one reason or another haven't been able to find a subject or field which they see as their future.
    1. You do not need a degree to be a journalist. You need a decent grasp of the English language and good communication skills, but these can be learned or simply be innate. Knowing the right people helps also. The same goes for theatre. Knowledge like this does not need to come from an institution to be worthwhile.

    2. Yes, but with an arts degree that rate is significantly higher. Look at which degrees have the highest unemployment rates and which have the highest numbers of people working outside of their degree. Its always arts.

    3. I'm not patronizing them by calling them kids. I didn't intend it to be in a mocking manner.

    And yes, I know plenty of people are worried about what they'll do in the future. However, if they have a quick look at which sectors have job openings and which don't (doesn't the government release these figures every month?) they'd easily find out what degrees to look out for.

    EDIT: Just read that mod post, ill drop the subject. I don't sugar coat things but I do have their best interests at heart.


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    #15
    flump_master
    Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭flump_master


    Clandestine wrote: »
    -High rates of unemployment
    -Many degrees in the department (just like the humanities) have no applicable use in the real world. They are learned to simply be "retaught"
    -Arts degrees are usually gotten because people have decided "I'll do what i really want" rather than "I'll do what society needs". I'm not saying people shouldn't do what interests them, but if that was the case we'd have next to no people making electronics, and millions of people wanting to be writers or film directors

    The ability to secure as arts degree shows dedication and intelligence on the part of the student. My uncle (Senior HR in a successful multinational) said a first in Swedish grammar showed worthwhile skills just as much as a 2.1 in Business Management

    If we allow students to study what they want you'll find there are those who lie in both camps. Telling students what areas to pursue is what leads the most significant imbalance

    Edit: Didn't see the mod warning, sorry!


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    #16
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Clandestine wrote: »
    1. You do not need a degree to be a journalist. You need a decent grasp of the English language and good communication skills, but these can be learned or simply be innate. Knowing the right people helps also. The same goes for theatre. Knowledge like this does not need to come from an institution to be worthwhile.
    I actually agree to an extent, but the reality is that without the degree these days they won't even make it to interview stage unless they are extremely lucky and extremely good (and probably have contacts)
    Clandestine wrote: »
    Yes, but with an arts degree that rate is significantly higher. Look at which degrees have the highest unemployment rates and which have the highest numbers of people working outside of their degree. Its always arts.
    What I don't think you get is that most Arts degrees are less about the specific subject and more about the core skills that an Arts degree imparts: research skills, critical and analytical thinking, communications, etc. One then focuses those towards a particular job in a PG Dip or whatever. Theatre / journalism are more specifically focussed certainly, but many aren't.

    In any case, this is most certainly not the time of year for this argument, and a thread in which people are nervously waiting for their offers on Monday is certainly not the place.

    Transferred out and closed.


This discussion has been closed.
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