Overpayment

Patrishka

Hi everyone, I just wondering if any body can help me in my situation. Few days ago I got a letter that I owe money to social welfare which I wasn't entitled.It,s almost 3500!!! If I new about it I wouldnt take even one euro if I was not entitled . The letter does not show any details. When I rang them they told me that my jobseeker benefit was to high, which means that THEY made mistake. I appeal of course but I dont think so it will help. I contact with solicitor but they dont do social issue. I feel completely helpless. No place to go. Citizen information help write appeal but it's not enough. It looks like the mafia not like the people from the government. Why do I have to pay for their mistake? Me and my husband lost the job at the same time, after a few months the rent for house increased about 300 euro. I feel sorry for my children because I can't hide my emotions any more. My plan was come back to my country but now I cant leave Ireland with this overpayment. I'm just done and broke down. Please if anyone can help me I would appreciate that.

bisset

If you are still in receipt of a regular social welfare payment it may be possible to arrange that they deduct €5 a week from that. Your local Citizen's Information Centre should be able to advise you.

LegacyUser

I was overpayed by a large amount due to not signing off when I went to college. I didn't sign off because due to the messing by the grants system I got no grant til the end of Nov and would have had to drop out. I had lost my job the summer before going to college and was not going to give up college or leave myself nothing to pay rent or buy food with (mature student, no parental help).

I had to pay a tenner a week back off my dole, that's all they'll do is take a small amount off you each week. The max they can take is something like 28 per week but they won't take more than 10 or maybe even 5. When I got a job I set up a direct debit for the same weekly amount.

Patrishka

Hi bisset thank you for you quick response, they are taking it already, its 30euro p/w but I just think they shouldnt take money away from me becouse it was their mistake. What if I find a job? they will take money from my wages aswell?

Mr_Red

Do you mind me asking how much jobseeker benefit you got a week?

myshirt

Bisset, not entirely.

They will deduct 15% at source I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Sher you'd never have it paid off at a €5 a week.

OP - you best need advice from someone face to face. There are too many variables in your scenario, and I wouldn't want to set you wrong given the sensitivity.

I will say, their mistake or not, it is your responsibility to ensure you are claiming correct amounts. It is a difficult life situation to be in, but once people behave reasonably and honestly, a route out of this can always be mapped out. You'll be ok.

No one is going to kick down your door, or meet you with a cement block into the face. It can be sorted out.

Patrishka

Now Im just on Jobseeker allowence 188 and they taking 30euro from that. I was in citizen information and they are doing what they can, they very good to me, they help me write an appeal, but it seems that these people from social wealfere are over the law. They just do what they want without any explenation.

Patrishka

myshirt youre right, in the letter is 15%, thank you for your positive opinon but honestly im lost in these calculations, i gave tham all the details and information they had to know, i gave them all of the documents and it is their job to calculate correctly. They should take the responsibility for that mistake.

redout

Patrishka wrote: »

Now Im just on Jobseeker allowence 188 and they taking 30euro from that. I was in citizen information and they are doing what they can, they very good to me, they help me write an appeal, but it seems that these people from social wealfere are over the law. They just do what they want without any explenation.

Patrishka wrote: »

myshirt youre right, in the letter is 15%, thank you for your positive opinon but honestly im lost in these calculations, i gave tham all the details and information they had to know, i gave them all of the documents and it is their job to calculate correctly. They should take the responsibility for that mistake.

Sounds like a difficult situation but their mistake or not the DSP are legally empowered to reclaim the money so thats the ballgame. They do the same thing to persons who have knowingly claimed benefits illegally i.e. take x amount per week to recoup it.

Patrishka

Yes Redout but its a huge difference if a person taking benefit illegally and me( person who didnt have a clue about overpayment) it takes me to the same level as a thief which for me is unaceptible.

Mr_Red

Patrishka wrote: »

Yes Redout but its a huge difference if a person taking benefit illegally and me( person who didnt have a clue about overpayment) it takes me to the same level as a thief which for me is unaceptible.

How much were you getting when you were getting over paid a week

Patrishka

Hi Mr_Red its really doesnt matter, people in cityzen information was calculated few hours everything from two years ago including my internship, Fas course, including my two children etc i its too complcated explain it here, I Appeal and also ask about details of overpayment becouse they didnt send me anything acept the amount of money so its even not possible to find out whats exacly was wrong the thing is thats is just unfair to punish me for this and they are very rude not only to me but also to cityzen information staff.

sweetsugar

Try the social welfare inspector, maybe he/she can help.

It is very frustrating when you can't get an answer but l hope it will be sorted

Patrishka

Thank you sweetsugar

Patrishka

Thank you for all your help and comments, if anyone know something about job for my husband please let me know, Im every day on fas.ie, job.ie, employee.ie, noel.ie and lots of deferent websites we also brought lots cv directly to many companies, agents, hotel etc and nothing all employers looking for people who is longer on social payment than 13 months for jobbridge or CE ( he is not long enough )

danjo-xx

Recovery of overpayments.

3.7 Is the person's agreement needed to make deductions from a payment?

Section 13 of the Social Welfare Act, 2012 amends the Social Welfare Consolidation Act, 2005 in relation to the recovery of social welfare overpayments by way of weekly deductions from a person’s ongoing social welfare entitlements. This amendment allows for a deduction of an amount up to 15% of the weekly personal rate payable to a customer for the purposes of the recovery of an overpayment (in both fraud and non-fraud cases) without the customer’s consent. Any deductions in excess of 15% require the consent of the customer.

In all cases, the person must be informed of the Department's intention to make ongoing deductions from a social welfare payment and offered the opportunity to give his/her views on the proposal. Any views offered by the person should be considered before deductions are made from a social welfare payment.

Note: if the person does not reply within the 21 day period, recovery by deductions (up to 15%) should be initiated.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Overpayment-Recovery---Guidelines-on-the-Recovery-of-Debt-by.aspx

Patrishka

Thank you danjo-xx this is very clear, but I did reply the next day when I received the letter and I informed them that
i was appealing this decision and I would like no further action taken until my appeal has been heard. They started taking 15% from my payment straight away.

DanDublin1982

If its too complicated to explain then it's next to impossible for anyone here to properly advise you.

You say it was the departments mistake but don't explain how.

Patrishka

It's not about calculation, its about fact that first they give money and later want it back. Who does that? If I knew that I'm not entitled I would never take it. Its just not right.

DanDublin1982

Patrishka wrote: »

It's not about calculation, its about fact that first they give money and later want it back. Who does that? If I knew that I'm not entitled I would never take it. Its just not right.

Not to be pedantic but thats what an overpayment is. Payment over the amount you should have recieved. You really haven't explained why that was not your mistake.

brembo26

There is more to this that we are not hearing :rolleyes:

tenifan

Patrishka wrote: »

My plan was come back to my country but now I cant leave Ireland with this overpayment.

You're €3.5k in debt and have no job and few prospects. If you go back to your country, you'll never hear about the debt again.

Patrishka

I rang to the department and they confirmed that this was department error. My jobseeker benefit was calculated to high for around 40euro p/w and all of the 3500euro that collected over the last year, they are expecting to give it back. But I didn't get any papers to confirm that yet. I'm waiting.

Patrishka

Hi tenifan, but I just don't want leave Ireland like that. I did not commit the crime. It will look like escape.

danjo-xx

Patrishka wrote: »

Hi tenifan, but I just don't want leave Ireland like that. I did not commit the crime. It will look like escape.

Its not a crime if welfare over pay you by mistake, they are entitled to reclaim the overpayment and you are not entitled to hold on to it, even if its been spent, that's just the facts.

No crime has been committed.

danjo-xx

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

Jobseekers benefit lasts a maximum of 9 months. At 40 a week that's 1500 so where has the other two grand cone from?

Full rate is €188pw which is what she was being paid.

DanDublin1982

danjo-xx wrote: »

Full rate is €188pw which is what she was being paid.

I know. In the post I quoted she states she was told she was overpaid 40 a week. That said I just realised my math was pretty poor first time round.

Actually it wasn't. I'm obviously very tired.

39 weeks times 40 is 1560.

danjo-xx

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

I know. In the post I quoted she states she was told she was overpaid 40 a week. That said I just realised my math was pretty poor first time round. Oops.

aw right, figures don't add up, don't think were getting the full story here.

Snake

Well regardless of whether you were aware you were being overpaid for not is irrelevant. And also untrue. They send a letter to everyone when their accepted for a payment advising you of your weekly rate, any extras and then a total. So you would have known. And even then you should have done some research on it. You owe them money youre not being targeted here. Anyone who's been overpaid or mispaid has to pay back the money they owe. There's not a lot you can do.

Owryan

Could the over payment have been both you and your partner recieving the standard payment of €188 pw instead of the adult +qualified adult dependent ?

very rough maths but the difference between the two payments over a year is about €3300, close to the op's figure.

Patrishka

Hi Owryan you must be right, I will be know everything soon I hope when I will receive details.

DanDublin1982

Owryan wrote: »

Could the over payment have been both you and your partner recieving the standard payment of €188 pw instead of the adult +qualified adult dependent ?

very rough maths but the difference between the two payments over a year is about €3300, close to the op's figure.

Continuing my pedantry here but two times 188 is 376 where it should be 312. That's 64 a week times a max of 39 weeks is about 2400. Still doesn't add up.

If OP was on benefit then she would (probably) have been entitled to the 188 and the overpayment would belong to the person on allowance.

Owryan

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

Continuing my pedantry here but two times 188 is 376 where it should be 312. That's 64 a week times a max of 39 weeks is about 2400. Still doesn't add up.

If OP was on benefit then she would (probably) have been entitled to the 188 and the overpayment would belong to the person on allowance.

As i said i calculated over a year......52 weeks...... €3328. Anyway we are all guessing as the op hasnt given us enough info. I assumed that they were both claiming JSA fwiw.

DanDublin1982

Owryan wrote: »

As i said i calculated over a year......52 weeks...... €3328. Anyway we are all guessing as the op hasnt given us enough info. I assumed that they were both claiming JSA fwiw.

She said benefit which is why I'm using the 9 months. She also said 40 a week so that would be the guts of two years. Like you say though we don't have enough information.