Perceived effort

outfox

Does anybody use RPE (rate of perceived effort) to form the basis of their training programme? Or does everyone use heart rate and/or power output instead? Just wondering if it is feasible to base a programme on RPE alone.

Ole Rodrigo

You mean feel ? Yep - its in the rules. And its cheaper

godtabh

very old school

lennymc

and apparrently surprisingly accurate

Idleater

I give up too easily, so no, intervals with my power meter get progressively more difficult.

godtabh

lennymc wrote: »

and apparrently surprisingly accurate

Only if you dont lie to yourself. No hiding with a PM

lennymc

godtabh wrote: »

Only if you dont lie to yourself.

Of course!

Inquitus

RPE you can kid yourself
HR is too slow to react for short intervals
Power, is what it is, lying to yourself is no longer possible.

Rambling Man

Seems a bit like the Billings Method

outfox

Thanks guys. I'm no wiser, of course.
Guess I'm trying to avoid spending money on a power meter. I've spent so much on bikes and kit and a turbo that I have to draw the line somewhere.

petethedrummer

I train with perceived awesomeness. I don't need a power meter to tell me how awesome I am.

Hmmzis

RPE is very good for short efforts, like 1-5min intervals. HR is not going to react in time for those to be of any use. For sprinting it's the only viable thing to measure your effort.

For long steady efforts RPE can be misleading, HR or power are better indicators for that.

For the TT intervals 10-40min RPE is a bit of lottery, sometimes I can judge my effort just fine but sometimes it's off a good bit. For those keeping an eye on HR or power is more consistent.

Also, for RPE to work properly you need a lot of practice with all sorts of intervals in all sorts of weather and levels of freshnes and tirednes.

outfox

Thanks Hmmzis (kryst, took me 4 goes to type that correctly!). If I'm interpreting you correctly, RPE is fairly accurate for sprint training, assuming I'm familiar enough with my own RPE scale?

Hmmzis

For sprint training that's the only thing that can be used. If during a sprint you have time to look down at your power numbers then you're going too slow. And it's also easy to judge by RPE, just go as fast as you can then go faster for 10-20sec.

For other efforts experience becomes more more important the longer the efforts last. Pros are supposedly very accurate on their RPE numbers no matter what the effort is.

Inquitus

Hmmzis wrote: »

For sprint training that's the only thing that can be used. If during a sprint you have time to look down at your power numbers then you're going too slow. And it's also easy to judge by RPE, just go as fast as you can then go faster for 10-20sec.

For other efforts experience becomes more more important the longer the efforts last. Pros are supposedly very accurate on their RPE numbers no matter what the effort is.

Alot of training can be very specific, over unders, pyramid sessions, intervals etc. Its nigh on impossible to accurately hit the required outputs using RPE.

e.g. 30 secs @ 200% FTP, 30 secs rest at 50% FTP, 30 secs @ 225% FTP ro similar

Raam

outfox wrote: »

Thanks guys. I'm no wiser, of course.
Guess I'm trying to avoid spending money on a power meter. I've spent so much on bikes and kit and a turbo that I have to draw the line somewhere.

Draw that line under the total on your credit card bill when you buy your PM.

12 sprocket

Inquitus wrote: »

RPE you can kid yourself
HR is too slow to react for short intervals
Power, is what it is, lying to yourself is no longer possible.

Agree that HR is not useful for short intervals
However power is not always "what it is" While its very useful for a lot of things there are myths around it as well. For example anyone who has used power meters will know that when pedalling on the road the reality is that power is all over the placing and changing up to 100 watts or more by just hitting a hill or accelerating out of a corner, (which obviously is the reality of cycling) so most people use it on average, which accounts for the watts jumping around and brings them to an average which is not really "what it is" or appears to be

Heart rate is very useful for endurance training

RPE is also very useful but power meters and heart rate monitors can help to understand RPE for someone who is just beginning to train.

Bottom line they are all useful if used correctly, and acceptance that none of them are perfect.

Inquitus

12 sprocket wrote: »

Agree that HR is not useful for short intervals
However power is not always "what it is" While its very useful for a lot of things there are myths around it as well. For example anyone who has used power meters will know that when pedalling on the road the reality is that power is all over the placing and changing up to 100 watts or more by just hitting a hill or accelerating out of a corner, (which obviously is the reality of cycling) so most people use it on average, which accounts for the watts jumping around and brings them to an average which is not really "what it is" or appears to be

Heart rate is very useful for endurance training

RPE is also very useful but power meters and heart rate monitors can help to understand RPE for someone who is just beginning to train.

Bottom line they are all useful if used correctly, and acceptance that none of them are perfect.

Agree, but for specific Turbo sessions indoors a PM really comes into its own with the removal of wind, gradients etc. it is possible to train to very specific intervals at very specific power outputs.

harringtonp

I would rate RPE a little more highly than HR but only because I've trained with a PM the last year and have gotten to relate how I feel to figures I see in front of me.


For thresholds intervals around 10 minutes the feeling should be that this is hard and you just want it to finish. You know that if a gun was put to your head to keep it going for an extra 20 minutes you could but it is still hard. Your breathing should not be laboured. RPE 7/8

For 2/3 minutes intervals your breathing is laboured and for much of the last minute there is a bit of that feeling of wanting to die. RPE 9