Sheriff - Seized goods

antodeco

Hi All,
I try keep this short. My mother in law owes money to eFlow. She ignored all the letters (including the one from the sheriff!). Her car was taken this morning. She was unaware it was taken. She came down this morning and there was a letter in the door, and the car was gone.

I have just a few questions:

- The car is worth considerably more than the debt owed (around 3 times more than what is owed). Can they take this considering the value of it?

- The sheriff is looking for €1000 to release the car today. This is separate to the money she owes. Is this a normal going rate?

- As she is disabled, and needs her car to get around, should/could they have taken something else?

Thanks

Little CuChulainn

They could have taken something else but your mother refused to deal with them so they took what they could. If you do a search of the forum you should find a good few threads about the Sheriff that might answer your questions.

mrsbyrne

Are her family only aware of the situation this morning?

SEPT 23 1989

How much is the debt?

antodeco

Only found out this morning. She said she didn't realise what the letter was. We've told her that these things cant be ignored, but only finding out today, there wasn't much we could do.

The debt is €2500. Its obviously been ongoing.

Carawaystick

If she "sold" the car before the sherrif took it
The new owner should be able to get it back with the reg cert
Assuming it was sold between midnight and when the sherrif took it

mrsbyrne

antodeco wrote: »

Only found out this morning. She said she didn't realise what the letter was. We've told her that these things cant be ignored, but only finding out today, there wasn't much we could do.

The debt is €2500. Its obviously been ongoing.

So the debt is now actually €3500 including the car impound?
If she were my family member I would be very concerned about this and alarm bells and red flags would be flying everywhere. Her family need to step in and see what other bills are being ignored as this might only be the tip of the iceberg. Many many letters came from eflow before the Sherrif arrived, ignoring them or not understanding them and making no attempt to seek assistance is a sympton of underlying mental health problems that must be addressed.

evolving_doors

Carawaystick wrote: »

If she "sold" the car before the sherrif took it
The new owner should be able to get it back with the reg cert
Assuming it was sold between midnight and when the sherrif took it

But theyd have to be time-travellers...bas.

Pat Mustard

OP, does your mother in law own the car outright or does she have it on hire purchase?

Phil_Lives

2,500 owed to eFlow. that's a lot of trips up and down the M50.

I remember the sheriff had to return Bernard McNamara's old BMW to him becuase it was registered in his wife's name.

SEPT 23 1989

His fees are certainly not 1,000 on top of that debt

offer him his fee and try and sort out a payment plan with him

explaining the disability and her lack of mobility

realdanbreen

Carawaystick wrote: »

If she "sold" the car before the sherrif took it
The new owner should be able to get it back with the reg cert
Assuming it was sold between midnight and when the sherrif took it

OP,you need to read the above suggestion again. I would suggest that what happened was 'a family friend had actually bought the car from your mother in law and has the reg cert sent in the post'

coylemj

realdanbreen wrote: »

OP,you need to read the above suggestion again. I would suggest that what happened was 'a family friend had actually bought the car from your mother in law and has the reg cert sent in the post'

You really think that this is the first time anyone has thought of that one? I seriously doubt that they will give the car back on that basis. If it was on HP then they certainly can't hang on to it but you can hardly backdate a HP agreement!

antodeco

Owns the car outright.

It was an accumulative debt of eflow who kept putting the charge increase on top of what she owed.

I suppose it's more of a case of:

Why did the sheriff take an asset that is worth considerably more than the debt?

Why is the charge €1000?

whippet

antodeco wrote: »

Why did the sheriff take an asset that is worth considerably more than the debt?

It was the only asset that was available to take .. as you said your mother would not engage with the sheriff.

antodeco wrote: »

Why is the charge €1000?

The sheriff has costs, costs that are incurred in settling your mothers case - these cost would be on top of what the debt is, as Eflow still need to be paid. From off the top of my head the sheriff will need to recoup costs like:

- time and admin for dealing with your mother (phone, letters)
- Insurance, rent, light and heat and rates for their offices (to allow them to perform the function)
- Staff wages for admin and recovering an asset from your mother (probably two people to call out very early this morning – unsociable hours)
- Recovery truck rental (or lease payments if they own their own truck) - could be a couple of hundred quid alone for this
- Storage of your mothers car.
- Preparing your mother’s car for sale (getting keys cut / programmed / new VLC for new owner / valet?
- Auction fees for selling your mother’s car (a % of the actual sale price)
- A profit for the sheriff - they have to make a living also


Also; while you might put a value of over 3k on the car, in reality when auctioned off the actual market value of the car will be a lot less.

Moral of the story .. don't ignore legitimate correspondence regarding debt etc.

SEPT 23 1989

his fee should have been on the original warrant sent to your mother in law

antodeco

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

his fee should have been on the original warrant sent to your mother in law

Grand. Ill get her to check that. She was more shocked that they didn't knock first to let her know. It is her own fault for ignoring it in reality, but I just want to make sure that everything is covered off for her before she tries to get it back.

flutered

if your mother is ill perhaps even with a certain degree of mental illness, would she have the case looked at in a different light.

mrsbyrne

antodeco wrote: »

Grand. Ill get her to check that. She was more shocked that they didn't knock first to let her know. It is her own fault for ignoring it in reality, but I just want to make sure that everything is covered off for her before she tries to get it back.

In my experience, unless she employs a solicitor, at even more expense, to argue her case, probably pointlessly, the only way to get the car back is to pay up, and pay the eflow bill too , so it doesn't get even worse. Then someone has to sit down with her and establish if there are any other unpaid debts.
If she's mentally unable to manage her own affairs, someone can be appointed as her legal representative.

billy few mates

If she's stable enough to drive round the M50 ignoring the toll she's stable enough to manage her own affairs.

Personally speaking as one who 'unhappily' pays the toll every time I use the facility I'm glad they're taking action like this.

antodeco

Please read my OP. I never once said that I didn't agree with what they were doing. We've already gone through her over this, and she only has herself to blame. However, The questions I asked were:

- The car is worth considerably more than the debt owed (around 3 times more than what is owed). Can they take this considering the value of it?

- The sheriff is looking for €1000 to release the car today. This is separate to the money she owes. Is this a normal going rate?

- As she is disabled, and needs her car to get around, should/could they have taken something else?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Bepolite

They will sell the car, discharge the debt (including the fees) and return the rest to your mother.

I'm open to correction but I believe that's the situation.

Fred Swanson

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Francie Barrett

eFlow are actually very reasonable to deal with. My brother had a few hundred in charges that he ignored for a long time. When eflow got solicitors involved, he rang them and they agreed to waive a lot of the extra charges that were applied if he paid off the tolls part of what he owed and created an account. If you ring them explain the situation that the driver is disabled, then I think they would be lenient.

Fred Swanson

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vickers209

Is she certified as disabled?

Disabled people can travel toll free.
Can she claim she thought she didn't have to pay the toll in first place

Disabled Drivers and Tolls

Specially adapted vehicles driven by disabled persons are exempt from tolls on each toll road in the state. Toll road operators currently issue special passes to facilitate such exempt passage. Passes issued by any one operator will be accepted by all other toll road operators.
Toll road operators directory

A list of toll road operators and their contact numbers can be found here

http://www.nra.ie/tolling-information/disabled-drivers/

GerardKeating

antodeco wrote: »

Why did the sheriff take an asset that is worth considerably more than the debt?

Cause taking an assert worth less than the debt would leave him short, easier to refund a few quid, than come back and take something else.

antodeco

Thanks for the replies. It turns out the debt is €1800 and the sheriff's fees plus interest is stating that she now has to pay close to €3500.

Little CuChulainn

Jboss wrote: »

MOD: SNIP

Not like fraud will make things worse.

Fred Swanson

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OldMrBrennan83

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Bepolite

Patww79 wrote: »

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What is it Judy Judy says, you're either playing dumb or it's not an act...

It's not a loophole, it's fraud.

billy few mates

The other problem is the sheriff could sell off the car for a fraction of its worth and if this doesn't cover the debt they'll come back for the rest.

I used to like watching that series on BBC 'Here comes the Sheriff' where they followed around a bunch of sheriffs in the UK as they went about their business seizing goods to pay off judgments. I was astounded by the powers they had, you can argue with them all day long but the longer you delay them, the more their fees rise, they just never lose....

Fred Swanson

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brian_t

antodeco wrote: »

As she is disabled, and needs her car to get around, should/could they have taken something else?

If the car was displaying a disabled blue badge over in England it would have prevented the car been seized.

Would that have been the case over here?

billy few mates

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The best price possible at auction could easily be a fraction of its value, they're under no obligation to sell it for the price the original owner thinks it's worth...

On the TV show I mentioned, you quite often saw them seizing many items or several cars to ensure that they would raise enough money to cover the debt (and their fee) so to avoid having to return again, quite often this action would be enough to force the debtor to come up with the money or an arrangement...

Barely There

Jboss wrote: »

Send off login friends name back date the log book day before it was taken and then they have to give back

Or alternatively she could pay her debts and not parasite off the rest of society.

goz83

billy few mates wrote: »

The other problem is the sheriff could sell off the car for a fraction of its worth and if this doesn't cover the debt they'll come back for the rest.

I used to like watching that series on BBC 'Here comes the Sheriff' where they followed around a bunch of sheriffs in the UK as they went about their business seizing goods to pay off judgments. I was astounded by the powers they had, you can argue with them all day long but the longer you delay them, the more their fees rise, they just never lose....

They now have "can't pay, we'll take it away". Not exactly my cup of tea, but was worth a few minutes while the toast was on.

billy few mates

I love that 'Here come the Sheriffs' program, it's almost always cocky gangsters, crooks and people who think they're above the law who have ignored their debts getting totally 'owned'...!
It's a fantastic system, you pay a very small fee and these guys turn up at the door with seemingly unquestionable legal authority and just threaten to take everything in sight. I've seen their targets argue, get physical and try to worm their way out of dodge but these guys never lose. They can walk into any private residence once a door is open, they can break into commercial premises and if people call the police they come down on the side of the sheriff.

Do we have anything similar here in Ireland...?

Pat Mustard

billy few mates wrote: »

Do we have anything similar here in Ireland...?

The guys here are useless compared to the English lads. If a business owes money, the court messengers/bailiffs will take machinery and equipment. However, if they are offered a few quid, they'll accept that and go away for the time being.

If you are in a residential house, they usually go no further if the debtor tells them that they've got nothing. That's a huge cop out.

The English bailiffs will check all the details and clean out the debtor in order to collect the debt. They actually do their job. That's the difference.

I'll put it this way, the creditor has a far better chance of getting paid in England than in this country.

You have to jump through all sorts of hoops to extract money from an uncooperative debtor, in this country.