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Top14 budgets

  • 12-08-2014 8:31am
    #1
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭


    Maybe it's not worth its own thread but here's the context for everyone!

    The provisional budgets of all the Top14 sides are published by the LNR before the start of the season. These do not include separate entities that participate in the economic activity of the club, so businesses like Toulouse's restaurant and Toulon's "RCT Café" are perhaps not taken into account.

    Le classement (en millions d'euros):
    1. Toulouse (35,02)
    2. Clermont (27,90)
    3. Toulon (25,37)
    4. Racing: (25,36)
    5. Stade français (25,28)
    6. Montpellier (22,54)
    7. Lyon (21,03)
    8. Grenoble (20,77)
    9. Castres (19,04)
    10. UBB (15,86)
    11. Bayonne (15,76)
    12. La Rochelle (14,47)
    13. Oyonnax (14,28)
    14. Brive (13,63)

    Source:
    http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-14/2014-2015/toulouse-plus-gros-budget-du-top-14-brive-le-plus-petit_sto4356076/story.shtml
    http://www.lnr.fr/IMG/pdf/Dossier_de_Presse_TOP_14_saison_2014_2015.pdf

    The most interesting placing on there is Lyon for me, since they've been promoted to the Top14 this year.

    It's probably difficult to figure out the provinces' budgets given their close ties to the IRFU. Would it even hit €10 million?


Comments

  • #2
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Famously these budgets include every activity of the club for example the michelin star restaurant in Toulouse.


  • #3
    FrannoFan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    Hard to know what provincial budgets are as they often are responsible for domestic development etc.
    provinces not as badly off as Gerry thornley would have us believe. If you are paying Jamie and sob close to a million between them the provinces are hardly paupers. Probably similar budgets to premiership clubs.


  • #4
    former legend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Famously these budgets include every activity of the club for example the michelin star restaurant in Toulouse.

    Except the article distinctly says the figures exclude these?

    It's somewhat hard to believe that Toulouse have a 40% larger budget than Toulon...


  • #5
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I've always been a little dubious of these and wonder how they come to the figures involved. If it doesn't involve the non-rugby aspects such as the restaurants, does it include some aspects of rugby aside from the salaries of the senior squad? All of their youth set ups? Does it include any potential costs for renting a training ground or something?

    Based on squad salaries alone, it's simply impossible for Toulouse to be spending more than Toulon.


  • #6
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    It's probably difficult to figure out the provinces' budgets given their close ties to the IRFU. Would it even hit €10 million?

    Looking at the Annual Report for the last few years it seems that the IRFU have a budget of less than €50m assigned to the game here. Another €10-€12m goes on things like marketing and depreciation etc so wouldn't go anywhere near the provinces. That €50m includes all aspects of the game from professional to community. So I can't see the provinces even getting €10m from the IRFU.

    However they do have income of their own that doesn't get fed back into the IRFU don't they?


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  • #7
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Looking at the Annual Report for the last few years it seems that the IRFU have a budget of less than €50m assigned to the game here. Another €10-€12m goes on things like marketing and depreciation etc so wouldn't go anywhere near the provinces. That €50m includes all aspects of the game from professional to community. So I can't see the provinces even getting €10m from the IRFU.

    However they do have income of their own that doesn't get fed back into the IRFU don't they?

    That all makes sense. But then you look at an organisation like Grenoble and ask yourself how a team like Leinster could really have a budget which is less than half of theirs.

    Not working in the industry, I don't really have any idea of what the provinces really cost to run, nor would I have any idea of what the French clubs would, but I just find is extremely hard to believe that our provinces are run on such a tiny proportion of the French clubs when you look at the quality of their clubs and facilities comparatively. Maybe the rugbyrama figures are questionable, I would be surprised if the IRFU report wasn't pretty reliable.


  • #8
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    That all makes sense. But then you look at an organisation like Grenoble and ask yourself how a team like Leinster could really have a budget which is less than half of theirs.

    Not working in the industry, I don't really have any idea of what the provinces really cost to run, nor would I have any idea of what the French clubs would, but I just find is extremely hard to believe that our provinces are run on such a tiny proportion of the French clubs when you look at the quality of their clubs and facilities comparatively. Maybe the rugbyrama figures are questionable, I would be surprised if the IRFU report wasn't pretty reliable.

    Just to clarify IBF, these are official figures published by the LNR. Rugbyrama are reporting them.

    See page 7 of the pdf: http://www.lnr.fr/IMG/pdf/Dossier_de_Presse_TOP_14_saison_2014_2015.pdf

    On a side note that pdf is very well laid out with all the information about the different clubs, the notable records of the tournament, the different TV broadcasts, the JIFF rules and the changes to the tournament (it's now within 5 points for a LBP for example). The Pro12 could take notice of a press release like this.


  • #9
    former legend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Looking at the Annual Report for the last few years it seems that the IRFU have a budget of less than €50m assigned to the game here. Another €10-€12m goes on things like marketing and depreciation etc so wouldn't go anywhere near the provinces. That €50m includes all aspects of the game from professional to community. So I can't see the provinces even getting €10m from the IRFU.

    However they do have income of their own that doesn't get fed back into the IRFU don't they?

    They must. The sums have never really added up, but the annual report talks about IRFU giving Munster Rugby an interest-free loan to shore up cash shortfalls - that wouldn't be needed/possible if there was just a single income and expenditure account.


  • #10
    Big Nelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,613 ✭✭✭Big Nelly


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    That all makes sense. But then you look at an organisation like Grenoble and ask yourself how a team like Leinster could really have a budget which is less than half of theirs.

    Bernard Jackman mentioned this on the radio before, with the new TV deal Grenoble would not get an extra 5 million a season for doing nothing really, and that is the way he put it.

    They where discussing about Irish player moving to France, what he did say was he was getting an extra 5 million but all of the players agent knew this and the wages would increase accordingly,....


  • #11
    19543261
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭19543261


    Quite surprised about the gap between Toulouse and Toulon.


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  • #12
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    former legend wrote: »
    Except the article distinctly says the figures exclude these?

    It's somewhat hard to believe that Toulouse have a 40% larger budget than Toulon...

    Well I can't read the article however the figures look in lime with a few years ago and those figures definitely included the restaurant etc


  • #13
    dregin
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 6,525 Mod ✭✭✭✭dregin


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Looking at the Annual Report for the last few years it seems that the IRFU have a budget of less than €50m assigned to the game here. Another €10-€12m goes on things like marketing and depreciation etc so wouldn't go anywhere near the provinces. That €50m includes all aspects of the game from professional to community. So I can't see the provinces even getting €10m from the IRFU.

    However they do have income of their own that doesn't get fed back into the IRFU don't they?

    131006-rory-mcilroy.jpg

    :P


  • #14
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Le classement (en millions d'euros):
    1. Toulouse (35,02)
    2. Clermont (27,90)
    3. Toulon (25,37)
    4. Racing: (25,36)
    5. Stade français (25,28)
    6. Montpellier (22,54)
    7. Lyon (21,03)
    8. Grenoble (20,77)
    9. Castres (19,04)
    10. UBB (15,86)
    11. Bayonne (15,76)
    12. La Rochelle (14,47)
    13. Oyonnax (14,28)
    14. Brive (13,63)

    Equivalent budgets for the ProD2 clubs:

    1. Biarritz: 11,07
    2. Perpignan: 11,07
    3. Pau: 9,66
    4. Agen: 8,40
    5. Béziers: 5,50
    6. Colomiers: 5,44
    7. Albi: 5,39
    8. Mont-de-Marsan: 5,21
    9. Tarbes: 5,00
    10. Dax: 4,77
    11. Narbonne: 4,51
    12. Aurillac: 4,36
    13. Bourgoin: 3,84
    14. Carcassonne: 3,83
    15. Montauban: 3,82
    16. Massy: 3,73


  • #15
    sydneybound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭sydneybound


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Equivalent budgets for the ProD2 clubs:

    1. Biarritz: 11,07
    2. Perpignan: 11,07
    3. Pau: 9,66
    4. Agen: 8,40
    5. Béziers: 5,50
    6. Colomiers: 5,44
    7. Albi: 5,39
    8. Mont-de-Marsan: 5,21
    9. Tarbes: 5,00
    10. Dax: 4,77
    11. Narbonne: 4,51
    12. Aurillac: 4,36
    13. Bourgoin: 3,84
    14. Carcassonne: 3,83
    15. Montauban: 3,82
    16. Massy: 3,73

    Thats serious amounts of money for the top 4 clubs.

    I wonder how these budgets should be compared to not just the IRFU clubs but also to the WRU regions.


  • #16
    sweetthing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 185 ✭✭sweetthing


    Didn´t I hear somewhere that Toulouse´s budget includes other sports teams or am I completely off the mark here?


  • #17
    twinytwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,410 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    former legend wrote: »
    They must. The sums have never really added up, but the annual report talks about IRFU giving Munster Rugby an interest-free loan to shore up cash shortfalls - that wouldn't be needed/possible if there was just a single income and expenditure account.

    I read somewhere that for example clermonts player budget is 3 times munsters entire ( and by entire I mean everything) budget for a season.

    I think this sums up a lot. I mean on a good day munster and leinster can stick it to Toulon/Clermont etc and they do it on a fraction of the budget.


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