Unreasonable Expectation?

travellingbid

I am currently expected to log into work every night to complete some work tasks. It was to be temporary 18 months ago but has been ongoing. Work have not provided me with a laptop and each week I find that there are more and more demands being put on me in relation to these tasks.

What is my position here? I can just refuse to stop doing these tasks?

srsly78

Just record the hours and either get paid for them or take time off in lieu. Discuss this first with your manager, if they mess you around then find a new job.

Why would they need to provide you a laptop? You clearly have no problem doing the work without one.

barneystinson

srsly78 wrote: »

Just record the hours and either get paid for them or take time off in lieu. Discuss this first with your manager, if they mess you around then find a new job.

Why would they need to provide you a laptop? You clearly have no problem doing the work without one.

The OP refers to logging in to do this work, so they must be using their own laptop at home to do this.

NipNip

barneystinson wrote: »

The OP refers to logging in to do this work, so they must be using their own laptop at home to do this.

A general rule of thumb is if they do not provide you with the hardware with which to do your job remotely, then you don't.

Doom

Tell them ur laptop died....you need a work provided one to complete your job

srsly78

And also tell them you decided to live "off grid" with no internet

barneystinson

NipNip wrote: »

A general rule of thumb is if they do not provide you with the hardware with which to do your job remotely, then you don't.

I know that, I was trying to explain the obvious to the not very helpful post by Srsly!

Doom

Also your work contract should outline your job role and duties and hours.

NipNip

barneystinson wrote: »

I know that, I was trying to explain the obvious to the not very helpful post by Srsly!

I was simply endorsing your view!

Michael D Not Higgins

Doom wrote: »

Also your work contract should outline your job role and duties and hours.

Additional hours as expected blah blah blah is standard in most contracts

Manach

However there is an onus on the employer to record these hours to ensure that they do not contravene the statutory limits on rest periods. As well, as this is off-hours work, the OP should raise the prospect of over-time for this as it seems to go beyond the how the work contractual term usually would be seen for additional tasks.

NipNip

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Additional hours as expected blah blah blah is standard in most contracts

Time to say the old laptop is not working

Michael D Not Higgins

NipNip wrote: »

Time to say the old laptop is not working

They might just provide a laptop in that case. Tell them there's an issue with the broadband and they've scheduled a technician for a week's time. This will at least see how the employer reacts, i.e. someone else to cover or alternate arrangements.

Mrs OBumble

OP, should your employer perhaps be changing your regular hours of work, so that you are available in the office at the time when the work you are responsible for needs to be done?

This could be one approach to take if you would like mornings off, or somesuch.

Another would be to look for someone else to take on the extra tasks

Michael D Not Higgins

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, should your employer perhaps be changing your regular hours of work, so that you are available in the office at the time when the work you are responsible for needs to be done?

This could be one approach to take if you would like mornings off, or somesuch.

Another would be to look for someone else to take on the extra tasks

Without knowing the work involved, I'd suggest to my employer that this could be shared amongst the staff, so that at least it's only once a week for example. Of course, this might not be possible depending on what it is.

travellingbid

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Additional hours as expected blah blah blah is standard in most contracts

This is the issue with my contract! They've themselves covered from that point of view. I just feel that I'm been taken advantage of completely at this stage. Even on a day off I get a text reminding me to do them.

I think I just need a kick to build up to confidence to speak to my line manager.

Stheno

Why cant you do the work during working hours?

Would be interesting to tell them your computer is dead or you're changing ISP so have no internet, and see what happens.

Michael D Not Higgins

travellingbid wrote: »

This is the issue with my contract! They've themselves covered from that point of view. I just feel that I'm been taken advantage of completely at this stage. Even on a day off I get a text reminding me to do them.

I think I just need a kick to build up to confidence to speak to my line manager.

It's really a clause to cover them, they shouldn't be expecting it as a matter of course. This should be considered as part of your regular work if it's occuring everyday. Can you elaborate on what it is and why it needs to be done out of hours?

chrysagon

The old famous "must be flexible" line in alot of contracts.. covers a multitude for your employer, personally i would be asking my boss questions, you dont mind doing the odd bit..but not to be steamrolled!

travellingbid

Sorry, its something that cannot be done until after 8.30pm at night. I live an hour from where I work so changing me hours wouldn't really suit. It's not that is takes a huge amount of time, it just that it impacts my personal time greatly in that I have to be available to do the tasks online 5 nights a week.

I've been told for 8 months now I'm been given a laptop and when I genuinely had an issue with my broadband for 3 weeks, I was told "well you have an iphone, use is as a hotspot".

howamidifferent

My laptop would have "died" a long time ago if i was in your shoes.
Of course I cant afford to get it fixed. If they give me a new one without compensating me for the additional time involved in out of hours support, my router/modem would suffer the same fate etc.... :P

Michael D Not Higgins

Are there not other members of staff that the work can be shared with or have you been pegged as a soft touch?

meathstevie

travellingbid wrote: »

Sorry, its something that cannot be done until after 8.30pm at night. I live an hour from where I work so changing me hours wouldn't really suit. It's not that is takes a huge amount of time, it just that it impacts my personal time greatly in that I have to be available to do the tasks online 5 nights a week.

I've been told for 8 months now I'm been given a laptop and when I genuinely had an issue with my broadband for 3 weeks, I was told "well you have an iphone, use is as a hotspot".

Does the company pay at least part of your phone/broadband bill or did they compensate you for the iphone to be used as a hotspot. Do they pay you overtime to work on your day off ? If you're that upset over it why do you even check your phone for their texts on your day off ?

Do they realise the risks involved with external access from private computers ?

Clearlier

Can you use it to your advantage? Do you want a promotion at some stage? Can you train somebody else on how to do it? Maybe you can reduce the amount of time that you do it if there are a few people who can take it on. Not exactly what you want perhaps but an improvement on the current situation and maybe an opportunity to demonstrate some strategic thinking.

travellingbid

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Are there not other members of staff that the work can be shared with or have you been pegged as a soft touch?

I think your soft touch comment is correct! I want to scream "I don't get paid to do this" but discussions re salaries, etc are regarded as immature - managements term, not mine.

There is two other people that can do them, neither of which will do them on a permanent basis

Stheno

travellingbid wrote: »

I think your soft touch comment is correct! I want to scream "I don't get paid to do this" but discussions re salaries, etc are regarded as immature - managements term, not mine.

There is two other people that can do them, neither of which will do them on a permanent basis

di they have to be done in the evening for something else to run? Why couldn't they be done first thing in the morning?

travellingbid

Clearlier wrote: »

Can you use it to your advantage? Do you want a promotion at some stage? Can you train somebody else on how to do it? Maybe you can reduce the amount of time that you do it if there are a few people who can take it on. Not exactly what you want perhaps but an improvement on the current situation and maybe an opportunity to demonstrate some strategic thinking.

I've already trained someone else up on it but because they don't sit on my team, my manager doesn't want to be seeing as our team not fulfilling a task.

Reading everyones comments, I feel if I was reading it as an outsider, I'd be screaming grow a pair!

travellingbid

Stheno wrote: »

di they have to be done in the evening for something else to run? Why couldn't they be done first thing in the morning?

Its information the MD wants shared before Midnight! Big company so he probably isn't aware I don't have a laptop or that I'm not getting paid / time in lieu

Michael D Not Higgins

travellingbid wrote: »

I think your soft touch comment is correct! I want to scream "I don't get paid to do this" but discussions re salaries, etc are regarded as immature - managements term, not mine.

There is two other people that can do them, neither of which will do them on a permanent basis

You could propose to the boss a rota, alternating each week. You'd at least get two weeks off between doing it then. Honestly, the immature comment is complete BS from management. The only reason you're all there is to get paid. No one's doing it out of the goodness of their heart.

NipNip

Just say that you would like overtime payment or some other monetary reward for working out of hours

Michael D Not Higgins

NipNip wrote: »

Just say that you would like overtime payment or some other monetary reward for working out of hours

OP's already been goaded into not discussing salary with the management. I can only imagine they're tight for cash if they are shooting down any salary negotiations in advance. Even time in lieu is not enough at this stage as they are still expecting OP to work on their time off.

How much time does this extra work take OP? Even if it's only half an hour every weeknight, you're looking at over 100 hours over the year which amounts to over a grand at minimum wage.

MrBobbyZ

OP, I would find your situation pretty intolerable. I have known many people who put in time at work off their own back but it was usually at their discretion (ie popping in to finish a task or getting an early start).
Having to return to work (not physically but mentally) every evening for anything would be tough, for it to go unrecognised is scandalous.
Surely management know that this cannot continue long term. A visit from NERA could have some serious consequences if they are not tracking the time. Also, as previously mentioned, even a relatively short period of time each day adds up to a significant amount of unpaid work.
The final straw would be the incursion into your day off!
I hope you can resolve this with your manager because, as I said already, its not sustainable. Especially with regards to your own stress levels.

RainyDay

OP - Can you automate these tasks?

It sounds like you're sending out files by email, or something like that. There are various tools that will do that stuff automatically. Or better still, wean people off this dependance on email attachments by dropping the files on a server and sending them links to the server.

Or if I've got the task wrong, provide more details of the task (while protecting your confidentiality of course) and others might be able to help. There could be a real opportunity to impress your bosses here, even if they have been screwing you around.

timetogo

I don't know how unreasonable your bosses are or how safe your job is. That makes a big difference.

If your boss was reasonable I'd tell him you're getting fed up of this and it's impacting your home life. They need to get a rota system into place and pay / give time off for the work you're doing at home. If it was me I'd say I'd do it every 2nd / 3rd week and if it takes a half an hour at home then on those days I'll be leaving the office half an hour early. I'd sweeten it by saying that they don't need to purchase a laptop or pay for your broadband.

If your boss is unreasonable / threatening your job then I'd tell him I'm starting a course which requires me to go to college 3 nights a week between 6:30 and 9:30. After that it'll take you an hour to get home and you'll be going to bed when you get in. My laptop might go faulty too.


What happens when you go on holidays OP? Somebody must cover you then. I'd imagine you could make a case for splitting the work 50/50 between you and your cover so you at least have every second week off. That's still not acceptable but better than what you're doing now.

I'd say if your boss won't budge then it's ultimatum time or CV time.

E.g. tell him he has one month to get a plan to cover the work as you'll be finishing up the extra hours on 10th Sept.

drumswan

travellingbid wrote: »

There is two other people that can do them, neither of which will do them on a permanent basis

There you go. Theres a soft touch to be taken advantage of in every workplace, make sure it stops being you. You will get zero respect while you continue in that vein, the other two have refused and positioned themselves as more valuable and important than you.

Tails142

As someone else mentioned, is there a way to automate it?

I would say to your boss that you're not happy about doing the extra work every night, but consider your position as a whole and not get too balchy about it by demanding xyz.

If after saying you're unhappy and they don't make any move to compensate or at least share the work then think about the next step

Is it a deal breaker for you job wise, would you be willing to quit over it if it came to it

travellingbid

Well, I've asked my line manager for a meeting to discuss this week. Will let you know how I go. I am a soft touch it would seem:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Mrs OBumble

travellingbid wrote: »

I think I just need a kick to build up to confidence to speak to my line manager.

Here, stand up straight while I swing my foot in your direction ... there ya go, how's that for a nice satisfying "thud"?

Now go and be polite, but make your boss share the pain around (including taking a turn on the rota themself!)

lulu1

Right you say this work can only be done at night. Well just say for example it takes you an hour to do the work each evening.I would tell my line manager that because I have an hours work to do each evening that I will be starting an hour later in the morning

InReality

To say its "immature to talk about salary" , is the height of nonsense.
As well as the obvious a high salary is a sign of social status and is also a recognition that you are valuable to your employer.
Its the type of horrible b/s that my first boss would spout, and I sadly thought was deep wisdom.

glic83

travellingbid wrote: »

Well, I've asked my line manager for a meeting to discuss this week. Will let you know how I go. I am a soft touch it would seem:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Any update on how you got on?

MistyCheese

Good for you OP, don't feel bad for having been a soft touch, be proud of the fact that you're standing up for yourself now. Two other people can also do this work but they won't do it permanently. No, of course they won't. Lots of posters here have confirmed that they wouldn't do all this extra work on an ongoing basis. So you shouldn't put up with it either.

Best of luck and remember 'Dont be irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced you can't be promoted.'

was.deevey

Its information the MD wants shared before Midnight! Big company so he probably isn't aware I don't have a laptop or that I'm not getting paid / time in lieu

IMHO writing a letter to the manager is the best way to clearly put down your thoughts into potential solutions, and you always have a backup should he fail to act at which case you "skip level" him and go to the next person up the foodchain with a CC of the original failed request.

Larry Bee

travellingbid wrote: »

Well, I've asked my line manager for a meeting to discuss this week. Will let you know how I go. I am a soft touch it would seem:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Well, how did you get on with your line manager?

John

the_syco

travellingbid wrote: »

I think your soft touch comment is correct! I want to scream "I don't get paid to do this" but discussions re salaries, etc are regarded as immature - managements term, not mine.

Discussions regarding doing something for free is immature.

travellingbid wrote: »

Its information the MD wants shared before Midnight! Big company so he probably isn't aware I don't have a laptop or that I'm not getting paid / time in lieu

If things don't go our way, be sure to advise him that you won't be doing it anymore, but that you expect to be paid for your overtime.

travellingbid

Sorry for the delay in an update although I suppose there isn't really much of one - firstly I was made feel about two foot high for complaining about it. However I was told that they're working on automating it and they'll come back to me end of month but to bear in mind it would be great cost to business to do it.

So frustrated now, not just about this but every part of my job because of this

MrBobbyZ

At least you got the ball rolling on finding a solution to this issue.
It strikes me that managment have an immature attitude to this.
Bear in mind that NERA fines for breaches of employment law would also come at great cost to the business.

Michael D Not Higgins

travellingbid wrote: »

Sorry for the delay in an update although I suppose there isn't really much of one - firstly I was made feel about two foot high for complaining about it. However I was told that they're working on automating it and they'll come back to me end of month but to bear in mind it would be great cost to business to do it.

So frustrated now, not just about this but every part of my job because of this

If automating it would be a great cost, surely you can negotiate that into getting some overtime for it. This also has the risk of backfiring and they saddle you with tons of additional work on this nightly task for very little reward.

I know this is a difficult position considering their responses so far, but if they come back and say 'oh well, too expensive, back to the status quo' don't be afraid to revisit some monetary compensation or jobsharing. Considering this is not the odd job that would be covered by the standard 'additional hours' clause of most employment contracts, you need a robust agreement about what's expected and what's gained in return.

the_syco

travellingbid wrote: »

Sorry for the delay in an update although I suppose there isn't really much of one - firstly I was made feel about two foot high for complaining about it.

So you help them, and in return they belittle you, and not reward you? Maybe it's time to look around for another job.

travellingbid wrote: »

However I was told that they're working on automating it and they'll come back to me end of month but to bear in mind it would be great cost to business to do it.

So frustrated now, not just about this but every part of my job because of this

Hrm, call me cynical, but I smell bullsh|t on the "end of month" thing. If it's too costly, it'll just take longer. It'll also mean that they've looked into it, but decided to let you do the work as it's cheaper free.