NLP, Counselling & Pschotherapy, Psychology, Mindfulness

irishguy1983

Would there be any type of course that would kind of mix all of the above?

I am contemplating going back and doing a BA in Counselling & Psychotherapy , but it can be very intense and not the most uplifting where as I find NLP and other areas such as Mindfulness/Meditation to be quite positive.

Obviously counseling and psychotherapy is super important too but would like a mix of all - want to enjoy the course also.

Am I making any sense? Or am I being totally unclear? Am I looking for the impossible?

dar100

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Would there be any type of course that would kind of mix all of the above?

I am contemplating going back and doing a BA in Counselling & Psychotherapy , but it can be very intense and not the most uplifting where as I find NLP and other areas such as Mindfulness/Meditation to be quite positive.

Obviously counseling and psychotherapy is super important too but would like a mix of all - want to enjoy the course also.

Am I making any sense? Or am I being totally unclear? Am I looking for the impossible?

You won't get NLP on any counselling and psychotherapy course, same for mindfulness.

You can however do sort courses on both of these.

NLP had no real evidence to support it

irishguy1983

dar100 wrote: »

You won't get NLP on any counselling and psychotherapy course, same for mindfulness.

You can however do sort courses on both of these.

NLP had no real evidence to support it

Cheers.

Torakx

For the practicioner and patient, NLP is an extremely valueable skill(In my oppinon for what little it is worth here). Reading body language, tone of voice, leading and pacing, timing, pitch, use of words and their effects, the list just goes on and on.
I may never get why it is not appreciated in the one place I would presume it should be essential. and i am very happy to see the OP mention a combination of allthose things. That is a very pragmatic and progressive attitude.
Unless, all of these things are covered in those other areas. But I highly doubt they are.
I have heard the arguement and fully agree that it is not long lasting, regarding the effects of NLP therapy. But that is not what I regard as a good use of NLP. It's not a good replacement for therapy. It seems clearly to me an essential tool to maximize the effect of many forms or therapy.

Read an NLP book and think about your daily interactions with people.
The results are evidence enough for me. But it takes a more intuitive person to pick it up fast I would admit.
There is a certain kind of energy you could say between interactions with people. And NLP helps to see this and work within it.

dar100

Torakx wrote: »

For the practicioner and patient, NLP is an extremely valueable skill(In my oppinon for what little it is worth here). Reading body language, tone of voice, leading and pacing, timing, pitch, use of words and their effects,

All common to other approaches, general counselling skills, if you like

the list just goes on and on.
I may never get why it is not appreciated in the one place I would presume it should be essential.

There is not much evidence supporting its efficacy

and i am very happy to see the OP mention a combination of allthose things. That is a very pragmatic and progressive attitude.
Unless, all of these things are covered in those other areas. But I highly doubt they are.
I have heard the arguement and fully agree that it is not long lasting, regarding the effects of NLP therapy. But that is not what I regard as a good use of NLP. It's not a good replacement for therapy.

exactly

It seems clearly to me an essential tool to maximize the effect of many forms or therapy.

A tool perhaps, but not a tool in and of itself

irishguy1983

dar100 wrote: »

Torakx wrote: »

For the practicioner and patient, NLP is an extremely valueable skill(In my oppinon for what little it is worth here). Reading body language, tone of voice, leading and pacing, timing, pitch, use of words and their effects,

All common to other approaches, general counselling skills, if you like

the list just goes on and on.
I may never get why it is not appreciated in the one place I would presume it should be essential.

There is not much evidence supporting its efficacy

and i am very happy to see the OP mention a combination of allthose things. That is a very pragmatic and progressive attitude.
Unless, all of these things are covered in those other areas. But I highly doubt they are.
I have heard the arguement and fully agree that it is not long lasting, regarding the effects of NLP therapy. But that is not what I regard as a good use of NLP. It's not a good replacement for therapy.

exactly

It seems clearly to me an essential tool to maximize the effect of many forms or therapy.

A tool perhaps, but not a tool in and of itself

Thanks for calling me pragmatic

I am just trying to make a career choice - I've notice lots of people working as psychotherapists know seems to have qualifications in all of the above these days and I can see why.

I am not sure about counselling and psychotherapy for me - it seems draining and tiring. I'll give you am example and maybe this might make sense - I read a Carl Rogers or Carl Jung book and I am worn out/bogged down by it. I read a
Deepak Chopra or maybe Marianne Williamson book and I am uplifted/learn a lot too.

I obviously get the fact that doing a BA in counselling and psychotherapy makes you more qualified/more knowledgeable but I think pulling from all strand seems to be the way to go. I'd be looking at some qualification in it but I am not 100% sure. I've noticed there is a high burn out with psychotherapists and I can see why really. It sounds like I am bad mouthing / I certainly am not as I want to study it too but I want to have a bit of everything.

I know there are lot of more qualified people in boards than me here so feel to contribute!

Torakx

irishguy1983 wrote: »

dar100 wrote: »

Thanks for calling me pragmatic

I am just trying to make a career choice - I've notice lots of people working as psychotherapists know seems to have qualifications in all of the above these days and I can see why.

I am not sure about counselling and psychotherapy for me - it seems draining and tiring. I'll give you am example and maybe this might make sense - I read a Carl Rogers or Carl Jung book and I am worn out/bogged down by it. I read a
Deepak Chopra or maybe Marianne Williamson book and I am uplifted/learn a lot too.

I obviously get the fact that doing a BA in counselling and psychotherapy makes you more qualified/more knowledgeable but I think pulling from all strand seems to be the way to go. I'd be looking at some qualification in it but I am not 100% sure. I've noticed there is a high burn out with psychotherapists and I can see why really. It sounds like I am bad mouthing / I certainly am not as I want to study it too but I want to have a bit of everything.

I know there are lot of more qualified people in boards than me here so feel to contribute!

I was considering studying psychology myself about 2 years ago.
I have such a strong interest in behaviour with people and animals.
Also it is a lovely feeling when you see someone improve themselves or gain some relief from issues. However upon visualizing myself sitting in a chair/office and listening to peoples problems and having to follow an agreed method, even if i had doubts to its effectiveness and also my doubt about my energy levels doing this. I had to drop that idea as a serious career choice. I am now in a much more creative field where I can still help people indirectly and also express myself creatively.
Beside, my method now to helppeople is to give them tools to help themselves. That wouldn't be good business for me if I was a counselor for example.
These days I help people when they need it. I use what I know of philosophy, NLP, psychology and general human AND animal behaviour, to hsow a new perspective. The times people have seriously considered these perspectives, were the times theychanged their lives and learned skills to keep this change and improve themselves. That was the job I wanted and I just could not see thathappening by learning through college in a particular field and then joining a society of that field and following allthat fields rules in treating people who are looking for help from others. When it is my firm belief they need to learn to help themselves in the long run at least.

This is not tosay I do not appreciate allthese areas and the time it takes just to understand any one of them. And the amount of effort involved in the work! I doappreciate that. But it just was not for me.

It's funny I found Carl Jung to be extremely uplifting and even more so now Nietzsche, since getting into philosophy.



In response to dar100 ( to save another post), If I could be shown that all the skills learned through NLP are available in other fields, I would instantly say there is no need for NLP in those areas.
But NLP covers a wide range of things, many of them involving intuition at the core. That is a skill in itself too.
I have not been given the opportunity to see this anywhere and would appreciate allinformation that would clear this upfor me. I have mentioned this here before and have just been told by people who are experienced in psychology and not NLP that I am incorrect and misguided.
I accept it could well be so, but not on someones word alone.
I can direct people to read any general book on the basic principles of NLP and it should become apparent. Is there a book that covers how these things are available in all fields of psychology where interaction with people is involved? How do I find this out?

evolving_doors

maybe the OP might be interested in Cognative Behavioural Therapy!

irishguy1983

Armelodie wrote: »

maybe the OP might be interested in Cognative Behavioural Therapy!

Yes I am on!

I work on the CBT AWARE volunteer program.

I would stick by my points but there are far more qualified people knocking about here with more insight.

I enjoy sports psychology too.

I did foundation course with PCI and twas not very enjoyable - I just mean tis tiring and I can see how people would burn out if doing that kind of intense, heavy wok every day.

irishguy1983

Torakx wrote: »

irishguy1983 wrote: »

I was considering studying psychology myself about 2 years ago.
I have such a strong interest in behaviour with people and animals.
Also it is a lovely feeling when you see someone improve themselves or gain some relief from issues. However upon visualizing myself sitting in a chair/office and listening to peoples problems and having to follow an agreed method, even if i had doubts to its effectiveness and also my doubt about my energy levels doing this. I had to drop that idea as a serious career choice. I am now in a much more creative field where I can still help people indirectly and also express myself creatively.
Beside, my method now to helppeople is to give them tools to help themselves. That wouldn't be good business for me if I was a counselor for example.
These days I help people when they need it. I use what I know of philosophy, NLP, psychology and general human AND animal behaviour, to hsow a new perspective. The times people have seriously considered these perspectives, were the times theychanged their lives and learned skills to keep this change and improve themselves. That was the job I wanted and I just could not see thathappening by learning through college in a particular field and then joining a society of that field and following allthat fields rules in treating people who are looking for help from others. When it is my firm belief they need to learn to help themselves in the long run at least.

This is not tosay I do not appreciate allthese areas and the time it takes just to understand any one of them. And the amount of effort involved in the work! I doappreciate that. But it just was not for me.

It's funny I found Carl Jung to be extremely uplifting and even more so now Nietzsche, since getting into philosophy.



In response to dar100 ( to save another post), If I could be shown that all the skills learned through NLP are available in other fields, I would instantly say there is no need for NLP in those areas.
But NLP covers a wide range of things, many of them involving intuition at the core. That is a skill in itself too.
I have not been given the opportunity to see this anywhere and would appreciate allinformation that would clear this upfor me. I have mentioned this here before and have just been told by people who are experienced in psychology and not NLP that I am incorrect and misguided.
I accept it could well be so, but not on someones word alone.
I can direct people to read any general book on the basic principles of NLP and it should become apparent. Is there a book that covers how these things are available in all fields of psychology where interaction with people is involved? How do I find this out?

That would be kinda me really - I would like to have a positive impact on peoples lives and I believe it is something I would be good at.

HOWEVER as you mentioned I don't see myself listening to hardcore problems everyday.

Do you mind telling what are you work in?

Work in HR myself and looking at stress management/wellness courses - particularly abroad. HOWEVER I do want knowledge of counseling/psychotherapy but not do want to do whole BA or be praticing it every day but key to be aware of these theories and have some knowledge.

I know a chap who is NLP coach and also works with sports teams - I could see myself enjoying that. Before anyone corrects me I totally get a psychotherapist is another level up so to speak and would be needed for more serious issues (can't think of a better way to phrase that but hope people get me).

JuliusCaesar

irishguy1983 wrote: »

I obviously get the fact that doing a BA in counselling and psychotherapy makes you more qualified/more knowledgeable but I think pulling from all strand seems to be the way to go.

Speaking as a psychologist who specialises in CBT, and with a fair number of additional qualifications to my basic professional qualification as well as many years experience, an undergraduate degree in psychology is highly desirable for working with people in a psychotherapeutic way. The BA or BSc focuses on the normal psychology. It gives a depth and breadth of understanding that enhances knowledge in a scientific way and allows for critique of research and methods.

Otherwise people may well be going into areas which are maybe not so well researched or investigated, and don't have a foundation on which to build.

irishguy1983 wrote: »

I've noticed there is a high burn out with psychotherapists and I can see why really.

Is there? I haven't been aware of this in my profession.

Torakx wrote: »

However upon visualizing myself sitting in a chair/office and listening to peoples problems and having to follow an agreed method, even if i had doubts to its effectiveness and also my doubt about my energy levels doing this.

I don't think anyone is forcing professional people into any such unethical position. Yes of course our energies vary depending on caseload, personal lives, physical health etc etc etc but generally we do look after ourselves and get clinical supervision.

Torakx wrote: »

Beside, my method now to helppeople is to give them tools to help themselves. That wouldn't be good business for me if I was a counselor for example.

Well, it's how I make a living!

Armelodie wrote: »

maybe the OP might be interested in Cognative Behavioural Therapy!

Yes. But there are many different courses of varying quality, and many people do a 3 day course and think they know it all. A proper full qualification in CBT is to Masters level, from a recognised university. A lot of people doing short courses think it's simple and that they know it all now, which would nearly be funny if it weren't so serious.

irishguy1983 wrote: »

HOWEVER as you mentioned I don't see myself listening to hardcore problems everyday.

Most of us have a mix on our caseload, and we all have favourite kinds of problems - personally, I love treating depression.

irishguy1983 wrote: »

HOWEVER I do want knowledge of counseling/psychotherapy but not do want to do whole BA or be praticing it every day but key to be aware of these theories and have some knowledge.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and it's REALLY important to be aware of one's limits. Unfortunately, many people think they know it all, when in fact they just have no idea of how much they don't know. It's one of the reasons I tend to stress a good foundation plus clinical supervision from an experienced and knowledgeable person.



.

Torakx

It is arguable for some maybe, on wether my new career choice can help people. But I am aiming for game development first and in my later years(should I reach them ) I hope to write books on many topics relating to behaviour, philosophy and life etc, especially depression of which I am an expert through experience
I have noticed and also been told that my advise and my general presence has changed people for the better. I think some people are intuitively healers and naturally wise as leaders. I am not as intelligent, as I am wise lol
But I have moved in with friends who cut themselves or had neurotic issues and by the time I moved out they were not depressed, not cutting themselves and going to college and so on.
So while it's often advised I don't give medical advice(which is fair enough to say), I do give my view on things, regarding nutrition, general health and on diseases and viruses and mental health(mostly through diet), and of course behaviour issues I love to investigate

End of the day I discovered that I was making games anyway for a hobby and helping people by leading. So I am now a lot happier I am working towards a career, doing something i naturally do anyway.
If you looked at my other forum posts you will also see why it makes sense I write books haha!
Edit: you see I even wrote a bleeding book here.. I just cannot stoppouring words out when I start typing. It's some kind of sickness

I think you should do what you love and not worry so much about doing the "right" thing. With balance in mind.
I am very poor still, have been for years now. But this time I am extremely content. The difference had nothing to do with status, money, security etc. Purely that I am living my dreams, as if they had already happened.
I have several dreams to choose from. If one doesn't work out or I get tired. I will switch to the next one. Imagine I am already there, and carry on being content. All around me people are unhappy, lonely(with company), stressed over work. They have money, they have nice clothes, they have cool gadgets and lots of friends. I got a room and a really old pc and a couple of philosophy books.
I am often the happiest and most content person I know and it takes effort for me to pull away from my work and my research, to actually entertain other people.
The exception to my contentedness and the reason I cannot say i am always happy(but very rarely sad or depressed), is a medical condition I have which causes chronic depression and extreme lack of energy and tiredness. But during the worst times there, I am usually A ok.
Example, nearly every meal I eat I must lie down for 40 minutes towait for the tiredness and nausea to go away.

I hope you know the things you love and chase it.
They are usually the things you are just driven to do even when it is difficult.But when you find that spark, nothing will pull you down I am sure.
Philosophy sofar has been the greatest help for me by the way. It seems tocover any issue by way of allowing me to entertain and create new paradiigms and positives from negatives.
It is also the precursor in many ways I hear to CBT.

irishguy1983

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Speaking as a psychologist who specialises in CBT, and with a fair number of additional qualifications to my basic professional qualification as well as many years experience, an undergraduate degree in psychology is highly desirable for working with people in a psychotherapeutic way. The BA or BSc focuses on the normal psychology. It gives a depth and breadth of understanding that enhances knowledge in a scientific way and allows for critique of research and methods.

Otherwise people may well be going into areas which are maybe not so well researched or investigated, and don't have a foundation on which to build.



Is there? I haven't been aware of this in my profession.



I don't think anyone is forcing professional people into any such unethical position. Yes of course our energies vary depending on caseload, personal lives, physical health etc etc etc but generally we do look after ourselves and get clinical supervision.



Well, it's how I make a living!




Yes. But there are many different courses of varying quality, and many people do a 3 day course and think they know it all. A proper full qualification in CBT is to Masters level, from a recognised university. A lot of people doing short courses think it's simple and that they know it all now, which would nearly be funny if it weren't so serious.



Most of us have a mix on our caseload, and we all have favourite kinds of problems - personally, I love treating depression.



A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and it's REALLY important to be aware of one's limits. Unfortunately, many people think they know it all, when in fact they just have no idea of how much they don't know. It's one of the reasons I tend to stress a good foundation plus clinical supervision from an experienced and knowledgeable person.



.

I certainly don't think I know it all and I have only done courses here and there - I have a little knowledge - that is all really. I want to enhance my knowledge across all areas I mentioned but just not sure about a BA in Counseling & Psychotherapy.

I hear you on depression - again I just have a little knowledge and try help people with AWARE on the CBT programme. The Robin Williams story rattled me a bit today....

Anyway appreciate the response...

Jimmy Bottlehead

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Torakx wrote: »

That would be kinda me really - I would like to have a positive impact on peoples lives and I believe it is something I would be good at.

HOWEVER as you mentioned I don't see myself listening to hardcore problems everyday.

Do you mind telling what are you work in?

Work in HR myself and looking at stress management/wellness courses - particularly abroad. HOWEVER I do want knowledge of counseling/psychotherapy but not do want to do whole BA or be praticing it every day but key to be aware of these theories and have some knowledge.

I know a chap who is NLP coach and also works with sports teams - I could see myself enjoying that. Before anyone corrects me I totally get a psychotherapist is another level up so to speak and would be needed for more serious issues (can't think of a better way to phrase that but hope people get me).

As someone who has attended school/college counsellors, a CBT therapist, and a psychologist I can say that approaching impacting people's lives without the desire to be the best you can be is at worst dangerous and at best a waste of their time and/or money.

You want to have a positive impact on people's lives but not listen to hardcore problems - but someone may come to you and eventually open up to you about being physically or sexually abused. At that point, you'll have neither the tools to deal with it, nor the stomach to handle it, and have to refer them elsewhere.

I would ask you to consider strongly the impact you'll have on your possible future clients, and decide very carefully what you want to do for them. Once you start playing with people's lives, goals, belief systems and so on, you can impact on them to an incredible and terrifying degree.

Short version: Either do it well, or don't do it at all.

irishguy1983

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

irishguy1983 wrote: »

As someone who has attended school/college counsellors, a CBT therapist, and a psychologist I can say that approaching impacting people's lives without the desire to be the best you can be is at worst dangerous and at best a waste of their time and/or money.

You want to have a positive impact on people's lives but not listen to hardcore problems - but someone may come to you and eventually open up to you about being physically or sexually abused. At that point, you'll have neither the tools to deal with it, nor the stomach to handle it, and have to refer them elsewhere.

I would ask you to consider strongly the impact you'll have on your possible future clients, and decide very carefully what you want to do for them. Once you start playing with people's lives, goals, belief systems and so on, you can impact on them to an incredible and terrifying degree.

Short version: Either do it well, or don't do it at all.

Calm down

I hear all of that and I agree with all of that.

Example - if I didn't compete BA in counselling & psychotherapy I wouldn't be marketing myself/putting myself out there as a guy that could facilitate certain issues.

I am looking maybe for a halfway house - plenty of people working in companies creating resilience programmes for example but OF COURSE I wouldn't be for a moment suggesting I'd be capable or tackling heavier issues - I hope that makes sense.

I do a bit of volunteer work and sometimes client ask me serious questions shall we say - I simply tell them I am a volunteer, have a small
bit of training and then refer them to doctor/counsellor/etc.

I think I know what you/people are referring too - I wouldn't be doing like a 3 day course on CBT and telling people I am a CBT practicioner but nice to have that knowledge.

As I say I am simply fishing around here/looking to make decisions and that is about it.

Jimmy Bottlehead

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Calm down

I was perfectly calm, as was the tone of my post.

irishguy1983 wrote: »

I hear all of that and I agree with all of that.

Example - if I didn't compete BA in counselling & psychotherapy I wouldn't be marketing myself/putting myself out there as a guy that could facilitate certain issues.

I am looking maybe for a halfway house - plenty of people working in companies creating resilience programmes for example but OF COURSE I wouldn't be for a moment suggesting I'd be capable or tackling heavier issues - I hope that makes sense.

I do a bit of volunteer work and sometimes client ask me serious questions shall we say - I simply tell them I am a volunteer, have a small
bit of training and then refer them to doctor/counsellor/etc.

I think I know what you/people are referring too - I wouldn't be doing like a 3 day course on CBT and telling people I am a CBT practicioner but nice to have that knowledge.

As I say I am simply fishing around here/looking to make decisions and that is about it.

So what exactly would you want or be able to help people with?

irishguy1983

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I was perfectly calm, as was the tone of my post.



So what exactly would you want or be able to help people with?

Was only kidding with the calm down comment

I am not 100% sure really - hence this thread - I am just fishing about really/checking things out so to speak. Do I want to stay as volunteer? Do I maybe want to be life coach? Do I maybe want to get some wellness training and deliver programs in work environment? Do I want to go the whole way and do BA in counselling? As I say I am not sure and just fishing about really

dar100

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Was only kidding with the calm down comment

I am not 100% sure really - hence this thread - I am just fishing about really/checking things out so to speak. Do I want to stay as volunteer? Do I maybe want to be life coach? Do I maybe want to get some wellness training and deliver programs in work environment? Do I want to go the whole way and do BA in counselling? As I say I am not sure and just fishing about really

Unless you complete a core training, psychology or psychotherapy, you will be under-skilled in delivering any of the above types of interventions.

Life Coaching is generally a one year course, and is best completed after doing a core training course.

There really is no easy and short cut to get into this line of work, knowing your limitations and staying within your scope of practice is really important, and this only happens from years of training and reflective practice. You wont get either from a short course

irishguy1983

dar100 wrote: »

Unless you complete a core training, psychology or psychotherapy, you will be under-skilled in delivering any of the above types of interventions.

Life Coaching is generally a one year course, and is best completed after doing a core training course.

There really is no easy and short cut to get into this line of work, knowing your limitations and staying within your scope of practice is really important, and this only happens from years of training and reflective practice. You wont get either from a short course

I get ya although I know plenty operating without core training as you mentioned.

Whether you or others believe these people are effective/doing it right is up for debate - I'll let the people in the know here debate that one.

There would be plenty for example delivering stress management programmes in work environments without say a BA in Counselling or Psychology - again I'll let you guys debate this one.

Jimmy Bottlehead

irishguy1983 wrote: »

I get ya although I know plenty operating without core training as you mentioned.

Whether you or others believe these people are effective/doing it right is up for debate - I'll let the people in the know here debate that one.

There would be plenty for example delivering stress management programmes in work environments without say a BA in Counselling or Psychology - again I'll let you guys debate this one.

Yes, but there are a lot of people who do gym instruction or personal training and are woefully under-trained and under-prepared. They do not get good results and they run the risk of injuring or demotivating clients.

Its a nice thought to want to help people, and its very noble. But you must focus on the fact its for THEIR own good, not your own sense of happiness or pride. And for it to be for their own good, you need to be as well-trained and prepared as possible. You need to be really ****ing GOOD at the job. Not just good enough.

It might be an idea to remain volunteering for now. A number of charities benefit from volunteers who complete short courses and provide a less intensive service (Childline, Samaritans, etc)

irishguy1983

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Yes, but there are a lot of people who do gym instruction or personal training and are woefully under-trained and under-prepared. They do not get good results and they run the risk of injuring or demotivating clients.

Its a nice thought to want to help people, and its very noble. But you must focus on the fact its for THEIR own good, not your own sense of happiness or pride. And for it to be for their own good, you need to be as well-trained and prepared as possible. You need to be really ****ing GOOD at the job. Not just good enough.

It might be an idea to remain volunteering for now. A number of charities benefit from volunteers who complete short courses and provide a less intensive service (Childline, Samaritans, etc)

I agree with pretty much everything you say - as I said I'll let it up to the experts around here to debate the merits of different qualifications and whether they are sufficient or not....