Donal Og proposes 12aside for Gaelic football

djPSB

http://www.newstalk.ie/Donal-Og-Cusack-proposes-12aside-for-Gaelic-football

Thoughts?

Personally, I think it would be a good idea:
- Eliminates the blanket defence and defensive game plans which has not been good for viewers.
- Would promote the skills of the game better and the better footballers and more skillful players would come to the fore.

nice_guy80

Definitely a few different formats should be tried at club level.

Dirty Dingus McGee

I have been saying for years the game should go to 13 a side.It would open up space, encourage more kick passing and the more skillful players would thrive

However I predict that in 50 years time the game will be exactly the same as now as due to congress it is almost impossible to get any effective rule changes through and we get half arsed measures like the black card (although it is partially working) rather than dealing with any real issues affecting the game.

Either go to 12/13 a side or put a restriction on the number of men allowed behind the 65 if you want to improve gaelic football all other measures will only have minimal benefits.

djPSB

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I have been saying for years the game should go to 13 a side.It would open up space, encourage more kick passing and the more skillful players would thrive

However I predict that in 50 years time the game will be exactly the same as now as due to congress it is almost impossible to get any effective rule changes through and we get half arsed measures like the black card (although it is partially working) rather than dealing with any real issues affecting the game.

Either go to 12/13 a side or put a restriction on the number of men allowed behind the 65 if you want to improve gaelic football all other measures will only have minimal benefits.

Would like to see the number of hand passes limited too. No more than 5 hand passes in a row.

Dirty Dingus McGee

djPSB wrote: »

Would like to see the number of hand passes limited too. No more than 5 hand passes in a row.

I don't think that would work as well as it would be very easy to defend against as you teams would allow the first few hand passes uncontested and then they would press quickly and force an aimless long kick.

The reason teams hand pass so much is because a kick pass in a large amount of situations isn't rewarding as there isn't space in front of players to kick the ball into, if you try a measure that creates more space it will encourage more kickpassing.I' pretty sure that most teams would prefer to hit more kickpasses but there isn't enough benefit to doing so in a lot of cases.

ProudDUB

djPSB wrote: »

http://www.newstalk.ie/Donal-Og-Cusack-proposes-12aside-for-Gaelic-football

Thoughts?

Personally, I think it would be a good idea:
- Eliminates the blanket defence and defensive game plans which has not been good for viewers.
- Would promote the skills of the game better and the better footballers and more skillful players would come to the fore.

Why would it eliminate the blanket defense? Instead of their being 13 men behind the ball, there could be 11?

Dirty Dingus McGee

ProudDUB wrote: »

Why would it eliminate the blanket defense? Instead of their being 13 men behind the ball, there could be 11?

Much easier to attack against 11 behind the ball than 13.

Amprodude

Nothing wrong with the way it is with 15 a side. Its a lazy excuse proposing 12 a side. Its up to coaches and teams to beat the blanket defense.

ProudDUB

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Much easier to attack against 11 behind the ball than 13.

Yeah, but the attackers will also be down two attackers too, so there will be less players to attack with.

Hidalgo

ProudDUB wrote: »

Yeah, but the attackers will also be down two attackers too, so there will be less players to attack with.

But more space. Its easier for a back when its 6 on 6 or 7 on 7 than 5 on 5 imo or 4 on 4 imo

Indie.

Amprodude wrote: »

Nothing wrong with the way it is with 15 a side. Its a lazy excuse proposing 13 a side. Its up to coaches and teams to beat the blanket defense.

Agree with this statement.

Also don't agree with the statement that it will bring the more skillful players to the fore. I think it will in fact be the opposite with pure athletes dominating, with all the extra space and room to run into.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Indie. wrote: »

Agree with this statement.

Also don't agree with the statement that it will bring the more skillful players to the fore. I think it will in fact be the opposite with pure athletes dominating, with all the extra space and room to run into.

Almost every player in the game currently is a good athlete but it would benefit the skillful players as they won't be crowded out as much as they can be currently.

Amprodude

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Almost every player in the game currently is a good athlete but it would benefit the skillful players as they won't be crowded out as much as they can be currently.

A good player will shine no matter what system is there. When tactical switches and systems are made to prevent the skillful player's influence on game, it opens up holes in other areas of the defence that can be exploited.

Ned Walsh

Shure have Joe Brolly give his thoughts on hurling too. 12 aside would make no difference

Tigerandahalf

Reducing the players would just create more space. You would end up with players soloing up and down the field.
A very simple rule would be to limit handpassing to three passes and then you have to kick the ball at least 20 metres. Some may say it would lead to aimless kicking. But it would also force teams to pick players who can kickpass and field better. I turned off the tv after 10 mins when Mayo were playing Cork.
The lack of basic skills like fielding and long accurate kicking are dead. Lads can run all day but the amount of intercounty players who cant solo, handpass or kick off their weaker side is very evident. Hurling is leaving football behind.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Reducing the players would just create more space. You would end up with players soloing up and down the field.
A very simple rule would be to limit handpassing to three passes and then you have to kick the ball at least 20 metres. Some may say it would lead to aimless kicking. But it would also force teams to pick players who can kickpass and field better. I turned off the tv after 10 mins when Mayo were playing Cork.
The lack of basic skills like fielding and long accurate kicking are dead. Lads can run all day but the amount of intercounty players who cant solo, handpass or kick off their weaker side is very evident. Hurling is leaving football behind.

I'd argue that the skills are much higher than they ever were and the Mayo Cork match was an example of this.

The standard of long range point kicking was outstanding the the first half of the Mayo Cork match.

The ability to kick long range passes isn't gone but in a lot of cases there isn't much point delivering a long ball so teams hand pass the ball more, Armagh gave an exhibition in kick passing last Saturday.A large amount of the kick passes from the past weren't really kick passes they were punts up the field for a player to win a 50/50 contest

Fielding the ball is more difficult these days as a lot of teams deliberately break the ball and make no attempt to make a clean catch when they know they are against a better fielding team.

Players are a lot more two footed these days than they ever were.

Can someone give me a quick description of the "blanket defence" if it's what I think it is then it would easily be defeated by a few good long-distance pointers.

If space is the main thing then either reducing players or increasing match length could work equally well.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Deleted User wrote: »

Can someone give me a quick description of the "blanket defence" if it's what I think it is then it would easily be defeated by a few good long-distance pointers.

If space is the main thing then either reducing players or increasing match length could work equally well.

Its basically a team dropping 12 or 13 men in their own defensive half of the field and they reduce the space the forwards have to play in and increases the amount of pressure on any forward who gets the ball.

The teams who are good at it push up quickly and put pressure on the attacking teams as soon as the get into the attacking half of the field at it are able to almost shut down the whole area from midfield in so even long range point kicking is very difficult as players kicking from the 45 or thereabouts are under huge pressure and have no time on the ball to get a good shot off.

The 2011 AI semi final between Dublin and Donegal is the blanket defence at its best/worst depending on your point of view.

niallo27

Something has to be done. A neutral like myself has little interest in watching today's first quarter final. I find it very frustrating to watch.

CrabRevolution

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Much easier to attack against 11 behind the ball than 13.

But you'll also have fewer players to attack with, would that not cancel out the advantage?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Its basically a team dropping 12 or 13 men in their own defensive half of the field and they reduce the space the forwards have to play in and increases the amount of pressure on any forward who gets the ball.

The teams who are good at it push up quickly and put pressure on the attacking teams as soon as the get into the attacking half of the field at it are able to almost shut down the whole area from midfield in so even long range point kicking is very difficult as players kicking from the 45 or thereabouts are under huge pressure and have no time on the ball to get a good shot off.

The 2011 AI semi final between Dublin and Donegal is the blanket defence at its best/worst depending on your point of view.

Fair enough, the only times I've heard it mentioned on RTE (to explain away what they saw as an unentertaining game) has been where teams drop back to around their 45 line and I didn't understand why so few shots were taken from 50-55 while the attacking team had plenty of time on the ball.

Dirty Dingus McGee

CrabRevolution wrote: »

But you'll also have fewer players to attack with, would that not cancel out the advantage?

Forwards benefit more from extra space than defenders.

RGM

Amprodude wrote: »

Its a lazy excuse proposing 12 a side. Its up to coaches and teams to beat the blanket defense.

This is how I feel. There is only one reason for teams to implement a particular strategy - they think it will help them win. When teams settle down and stop banging their heads against the wall of a blanket defense, they'll learn it can be defeated. Once that happens, the defensive teams will reevaluate their strategy. People bang on about Donegal and Dublin in 2011. Sure, and what happened to Donegal the next year? You can't go watch Donegal's games vs. Cork, Kerry and Mayo in 2012 and tell me it was ugly football.

I think you're witnessing the evolution of the game. It doesn't look pretty in some cases now because it's early in the process and teams don't know exactly what they're doing.

threeball

Give it two or three years of attacking teams winning all irelands and the blanket defence will be yesterdays chip paper. Every man and their dog will want to shoot the lights out instead

theoneeyedman

djPSB wrote: »

Would like to see the number of hand passes limited too. No more than 5 hand passes in a row.

Why not ban them alltogether? Just forget hand passing....very little skill involved and adds little to the game as a spectacle

Dirty Dingus McGee

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Why not ban them alltogether? Just forget hand passing....very little skill involved and adds little to the game as a spectacle

Almost every goal in the game is created by a handpass.

If you ban handpassing you ban a short pass of the ball and that certainly wouldn't be good for the game.

Good handpassing moves are great to watch.

Hidalgo

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Reducing the players would just create more space. You would end up with players soloing up and down the field.
A very simple rule would be to limit handpassing to three passes and then you have to kick the ball at least 20 metres. Some may say it would lead to aimless kicking. But it would also force teams to pick players who can kickpass and field better. I turned off the tv after 10 mins when Mayo were playing Cork.
The lack of basic skills like fielding and long accurate kicking are dead. Lads can run all day but the amount of intercounty players who cant solo, handpass or kick off their weaker side is very evident. Hurling is leaving football behind.

People have this notion that just because back in the day everone kicked the ball long that there was loads of accurate kicking.
Christy O Connor did a very interesting piece on this 2-3 yearz ago by analysing old games. His results showed lots of long kicking for sure but most of it was aimless. The numbers he crunched showed up the laziness of the Spillane Brolly style argument

keeponhurling

niallo27 wrote: »

Something has to be done. A neutral like myself has little interest in watching today's first quarter final. I find it very frustrating to watch.

I really enjoyed it.
It was close and exciting, and I really like the way players have to work hard for every score.

Some of the scores from Kernan for example were sublime, and the way Armagh had to re-think and players like Mallon, Shiels and the wing back Kernan supplied scores was impressive.

On the Donegal side, the goal from Mac Niallais was a great move and finish.
I love the way Murphy is able to break the line with power and speed.

Plus it wasn't exactly that low scoring, especially given the conditions.

I can kick the ball over the bar myself from 40-50 yards most times if nobody's near me.
But creating space and kicking scores at speed under pressure is another matter

harpsman

threeball wrote: »

Give it two or three years of attacking teams winning all irelands and the blanket defence will be yesterdays chip paper. Every man and their dog will want to shoot the lights out instead

Dream on. Getting lots of men behind the ball will always be the most effective way to neutralise a forward line and will always have a role in any sport.

Reducing game to 12 a side will just make the game even more about fitness over skill.

If you want to see less blanket then make a rule where you have to keep 4 players in opposing half at all time policed by one linesman in each half. Its not like the linesman do eff all anyway and usually get the tight sideline calls wrong.
Would result in less defenders and more kicking.

threeball

harpsman wrote: »

Dream on. Getting lots of men behind the ball will always be the most effective way to neutralise a forward line and will always have a role in any sport.

Reducing game to 12 a side will just make the game even more about fitness over skill.

If you want to see less blanket then make a rule where you have to keep 4 players in opposing half at all time policed by one linesman in each half. Its not like the linesman do eff all anyway and usually get the tight sideline calls wrong.
Would result in less defenders and more kicking.

Pulling men back is only an issue where the the team leave them there with little to no attacking options such as the way monaghan and donegal do. When a team offers both sides like Dublin, kerry and a certain extent Mayo do then people don't view it as a blanket defence. These three are the dominant teams at the moment and I expect others to now ape them same as they did Tyrone and Armagh

Dots1982

Just going to make the game about fitness. Would be too demanding at club level. All round a bit of a stupid idea.