Advice please.

mrty

Hey all, so I'm gonna make a real effort to put on a bit of muscle mass. Unfortunately Im tall thin and find it very difficult to gain weight. I'm just after a bit of advice, tips, tricks or whatever may make the process easier or more successful. Many thanks.

endacl

Eat big and lift lots.

conzy

"find it difficult to gain weight" this is the lamest excuse ever gaining weight takes as much dedication as losing weight. It is very simple. plan your meals, know your daily calorie intake, increase it if your weight gain stalls.

19543261

Yes, lots of peanut butter and whole-milk to make you nice and fat.

conzy

19543261 wrote: »

Yes, lots of peanut butter and whole-milk to make you nice and fat.

gtfo

Avonmore light protein milk ™ and low fat peanut butter if you dont want to get fat

Alf Veedersane

conzy wrote: »

gtfo

Avonmore light protein milk ™ and low fat peanut butter if you dont want to get fat

...and not ingesting them to the point where you're entering them in cubic metres on MFP.

mrty

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

...and not ingesting them to the point where you're entering them in cubic metres on MFP.

What's mfp?

sean_0

mrty wrote: »

What's mfp?

My fitness pal - something you don't need to worry about for a while until it's clear that you're either undereating or vastly overeating.

Eat lots of meat and spuds and drink lots of milk while doing heavy compound exercises for sets of 5, increasing the weight every workout until that stops working. Come back in three months and take stock of the situation then. It's worked for countless people before and it will work for you too.

If you want some reference material read starting strength (the book).

The process is ridiculously simple. There is no magic.

I said simple, not easy!

.ak

I'd love to be starting off skinny at working my way to being big. I'd say there's an element of fun being able to gorge and getting used to a high cal diet.

Try starting off at 20% BF trying to lose it WHILST gaining muscle is haaaard. Down to 15% now but unfortunately I dropped 1.5kg in a week, which oddly enough is very disappointing. I want to gain mass whilst getting the BF down, but my recent measurements suggest I'm losing my muscle as well as my BF, despite eating 2k kcal+ very cleanly (I'm 69kg).

I'm hoping that's down to my recent up in cardio through rugby, so I need to up my meals... but then I'm worried my BF will stop shedding off. It's tough to balance this, especially when you spend 5 days waking up at 4am per week to get to the gym and not see the results you want.

If I was skinny I'd be eating a 50:30:20 breakdown on carbs to protein to fats on weight days. You'll gain quickly enough if you're lifting plenty on say the 5x5 routine.

ixus

What weight did you start at? If say you started at 72kg and lost 5% that implies you lost 3.6kg BF. If you lost say 2kg in weight at the same time it would imply a lean mass gain of 1.6kg.

When I started out, I lost weight and body fat initially then went to losing BF maintaining weight (gaining mass) before finally gaining weight through muscle mass and a bit of BF.

Possible sleep deprivation is hindering growth, especially if you're in the gym 5 mornings a week plus rugby training.

.ak

Sorry I should've stated I actually started my current training program at 18.5% - but was 20% on average during the summer.

Started at 70kg, then after 1 week went up to 71kg whilst dropping 2.5% bf.

Then after week 2 I went down to 69.5kg and dropped another 1% bf, so I'm at 15% currently.

So, what you're saying is it might be normal to see a drop in weight whilst shedding BF even if I am gaining a bit of lean mass?

Yeah the sleep thing is certainly true - trying to get the best sleep I can but basically hit the sack at 10pm and alarm goes off at 4:30am. The missus was in hospital for a while so that meant long visits out there too, but she's home now so I plan and trying work on my R&R a bit more.

ixus

Are you checking this every week? It's probably overkill as your body is adapting to a change in training, sleeping and eating patterns. There will be fluctuations. Better to see where you are in a month.

Another question to ask is are you training smartly/ efficiently for your sport. AIL standard players I've met tend to train along the Westside lines I.e heavy squat/dead day Monday, upper body Wed and explosive work Fri/Sat. Matches considering.

Some might do Mon&Tues gym plus rugby Tues night with Wed as rest day. Thurs & Fri explosive with match Sat/Sun. Friday being a light or morning session.

.ak wrote: »

Sorry I should've stated I actually started my current training program at 18.5% - but was 20% on average during the summer.

Started at 70kg, then after 1 week went up to 71kg whilst dropping 2.5% bf.

Then after week 2 I went down to 69.5kg and dropped another 1% bf, so I'm at 15% currently.

So, what you're saying is it might be normal to see a drop in weight whilst shedding BF even if I am gaining a bit of lean mass?

Yeah the sleep thing is certainly true - trying to get the best sleep I can but basically hit the sack at 10pm and alarm goes off at 4:30am. The missus was in hospital for a while so that meant long visits out there too, but she's home now so I plan and trying work on my R&R a bit more.

.ak

Yeah the program I'm doing was actually part of the Total Rugby 'flab to fit' experiment, it's essentially a 6 week routine designed for the pre-season to get into shape. So the routine is a 2 day split over five days, i.e; day 1 is full body resistance, day 2 is core, and you rotate from there. Every 2nd week the routines change and you add in supersets, the final two weeks you go to trisets.

It's definately not something I'd do during the regular season, as I'd have no energy what so ever for matches... but I should be finished by mid september and our first games will be late september.

After that it's as you say, tailoring my routines around my rugby training.

The main reason I'm doing this 6 week course is I tried to lose BF last season and get into better shape during the season and found it very difficult. I like to look at this as a kick starter before the season starts properly. If I can get down to 11% BF at the end of it I'll be a happy man.

mrty

.ak wrote: »

I'd love to be starting off skinny at working my way to being big. I'd say there's an element of fun being able to gorge and getting used to a high cal diet.

Try starting off at 20% BF trying to lose it WHILST gaining muscle is haaaard. Down to 15% now but unfortunately I dropped 1.5kg in a week, which oddly enough is very disappointing. I want to gain mass whilst getting the BF down, but my recent measurements suggest I'm losing my muscle as well as my BF, despite eating 2k kcal+ very cleanly (I'm 69kg).

I'm hoping that's down to my recent up in cardio through rugby, so I need to up my meals... but then I'm worried my BF will stop shedding off. It's tough to balance this, especially when you spend 5 days waking up at 4am per week to get to the gym and not see the results you want.

If I was skinny I'd be eating a 50:30:20 breakdown on carbs to protein to fats on weight days. You'll gain quickly enough if you're lifting plenty on say the 5x5 routine.[/QUOT


Believe me its much harder to gain than lose. I'm on about 6000 cal per day only staring to see a slight weight gain after 4 months of this.

Alf Veedersane

mrty wrote: »

Believe me its much harder to gain than lose. I'm on about 6000 cal per day only staring to see a slight weight gain after 4 months of this.

6,000 cals a day for 4 months?

I think there might be a bit of an overestimation there.

How accurately do you measure everything you eat and drink?

mrty

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

6,000 cals a day for 4 months?

I think there might be a bit of an overestimation there.

How accurately do you measure everything you eat and drink?

Just using a calorie counting application. I'm on loads I'm not using any supplements, I eat every 2 hours. I never allow myself to get hungry and I'm only eating real healthy stuff. Example today's breakfast. 3 weatabix I glass of apple juice a pint of milk a pint of water peanut butter sandwich 1 apple 1 peach 1 banana 1 slice of melon. That was at 12 o'clock then at 1.30 I had 2 mackerel fillets, now at 3 gonna have a 4 egg omelette with cheese and ham. Do you think that's enough to gain, its possible the app is over estimating calories.

Alf Veedersane

mrty wrote: »

Just using a calorie counting application. I'm on loads I'm not using any supplements, I eat every 2 hours. I never allow myself to get hungry and I'm only eating real healthy stuff. Example today's breakfast. 3 weatabix I glass of apple juice a pint of milk a pint of water peanut butter sandwich 1 apple 1 peach 1 banana 1 slice of melon. That was at 12 o'clock then at 1.30 I had 2 mackerel fillets, now at 3 gonna have a 4 egg omelette with cheese and ham. Do you think that's enough to gain, its possible the app is over estimating calories.

How many calories is the app giving you for the above and what else do you plan on having for the day?

Also, how did you measure the quantities of peanut butter, the mackerel fillets, the ham etc?

Blacktie.

Believe me its much harder to gain than lose. I'm on about 6000 cal per day only staring to see a slight weight gain after 4 months of this

Yeah this just can't be true. Nobody outside professional athletes burns this many calories per day.

Of course it's hard to gain muscle while losing fat. Once your past the noob stage it's very much an uphill battle if this is what you;re trying to do. That's why people do bulk cut cycles.

Also since when wass 20% considered fat!?

3 weatabix I glass of apple juice a pint of milk a pint of water peanut butter sandwich 1 apple 1 peach 1 banana 1 slice of melon. That was at 12 o'clock then at 1.30 I had 2 mackerel fillets, now at 3 gonna have a 4 egg omelette with cheese and ham. Do you think that's enough to gain, its possible the app is over estimating calories.

If that's all you're eating then no. That's not 6000 calories and is definitley not enough to gain.

.ak

Yeah pro rugby players would be on around >6,000 calories a day. No way you'd feel anyway healthy after eating 6k in a day not burn most of it off... I know some people have amazingly high metabolic rates but that'd be nuts.

You just need around 300 + your maintenance to add 1lb of muscle a week, that's what I was told by my trainer friend yesterday... Turns out I'm about 700calories away from what I should be getting into me!

.ak

Blacktie. wrote: »

Also since when wass 20% considered fat!?

For myself I would consider myself chubby at 20%... But then I'm 5'9" so quite small of build.

mrty

Blacktie. wrote: »

Yeah this just can't be true. Nobody outside professional athletes burns this many calories per day.

Of course it's hard to gain muscle while losing fat. Once your past the noob stage it's very much an uphill battle if this is what you;re trying to do. That's why people do bulk cut cycles.

Also since when wass 20% considered fat!?



If that's all you're eating then no. That's not 6000 calories and is definitley not enough to gain.

That's all I've eaten till 3 from 12. I have the rest off the day to go yet and believe me there's a lot to come. When you say that nobody but athletes burn like this its quite worrying because I do. I'm 6ft tall and 10stone 5pounds this is the heaviest I've ever been. According to doctors this is normal some people are just like this, I've had the thyroid checked on a few occasions comes back normal

Alf Veedersane

mrty wrote: »

Just using a calorie counting application. I'm on loads I'm not using any supplements, I eat every 2 hours. I never allow myself to get hungry and I'm only eating real healthy stuff. Example today's breakfast. 3 weatabix I glass of apple juice a pint of milk a pint of water peanut butter sandwich 1 apple 1 peach 1 banana 1 slice of melon. That was at 12 o'clock then at 1.30 I had 2 mackerel fillets, now at 3 gonna have a 4 egg omelette with cheese and ham. Do you think that's enough to gain, its possible the app is over estimating calories.

mrty wrote: »

That's all I've eaten till 3 from 12.

What you listed above is from the start of the day, no?

And how much is the app telling you is in what you've had, from the weetabix to the last morsel you ate?

Blacktie.

mrty wrote: »

That's all I've eaten till 3 from 12. I have the rest off the day to go yet and believe me there's a lot to come. When you say that nobody but athletes burn like this its quite worrying because I do. I'm 6ft tall and 10stone 5pounds this is the heaviest I've ever been. According to doctors this is normal some people are just like this, I've had the thyroid checked on a few occasions comes back normal

I really don't think so. How do you measure portion sizes? Do you weigh everything?

Burning off 6000 calories is in no way normal. Especially at only 10st 5 at 6'. I'm 12.7 stone (google conversion of 81kg) at 5' 11" and if I started eating that amount I'd be piling on the pounds.

It just can't be an accurate measurement. What's a day eating look like? Not just till noon.

.ak

Do you use this site? Seems fairly accurate to me. Great index of foods on it. I don't use it every day, but just to get a read out of my meals it's fairly good.

http://caloriecount.about.com/cc/account/index.php

Then use this to work out your calorie needs, try and use the advanced options.

http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm

Alf Veedersane

.ak wrote: »

Do you use this site? Seems fairly accurate to me. Great index of foods on it. I don't use it every day, but just to get a read out of my meals it's fairly good.

http://caloriecount.about.com/cc/account/index.php

Then use this to work out your calorie needs, try and use the advanced options.

http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm

Or www.myfitnesspal.com has a fantastic database of foods.

mrty

Thanks lads, that's given me loads to think about. As you can probably tell I'm new to all this so any advice is very much appreciated. I'll have a look at those apps you suggested and see how I goes. I'll post tonight exactly what I've eaten all day any thoughts would be very helpful. Cheers

conzy

mrty wrote: »

Just using a calorie counting application. I'm on loads I'm not using any supplements, I eat every 2 hours. I never allow myself to get hungry and I'm only eating real healthy stuff. Example today's breakfast. 3 weatabix I glass of apple juice a pint of milk a pint of water peanut butter sandwich 1 apple 1 peach 1 banana 1 slice of melon. That was at 12 o'clock then at 1.30 I had 2 mackerel fillets, now at 3 gonna have a 4 egg omelette with cheese and ham. Do you think that's enough to gain, its possible the app is over estimating calories.

From my quick guesstimation all of this is less than 2600 calories

mrty

So today got up at 12. 3 weatabix, 1 peach, 1 banana, 1 apple, 1 slice of melon, 1 peanut butter sandwich 1 pint of milk 1 pint of water a glass of juice. 2 mackerel fillets, 4 egg omelette with ham and cheese, 1 pork chop. 1 tin of creamed rice with peaches. 2 pork chops, chicken curry rice with small side of noodles. 1 pint of milk, 2 weetabix and 2 small chocolate bars 1 peanut butter sandwich. That's one days eating surely I should be gaining? Any advice on my diet would be very much appreciated. Thanks again lads.

ixus

The first question everyone is going to ask is where's your veg?!

You could do breakfast better e.g. 2 chicken fillets or a steak and broccoli.

Sweet potatoes; eat them.

Here's a plan:

salmon & scrambled eggs / omelette
chicken fillet & sweet potato
Chicken fillet & sweet potato.
Steak/turkey/fish & a load of veg.

snack on fruit, nuts & peanut butter in between.

Eat coconut oil. A spoon after a gym session.

Drink water.

You will be bursting at the seems. If you're not, up the dosage of protein & veg.

Note: you would want to be putting in the training to make sure this is lean mass you're gaining and not just fat. Also sport specific as the weight could just slow you down if you don't train/eat right.

mrty

ixus wrote: »

The first question everyone is going to ask is where's your veg?!

You could do breakfast better e.g. 2 chicken fillets or a steak and broccoli.

Sweet potatoes; eat them.

Here's a plan:

salmon & scrambled eggs / omelette
chicken fillet & sweet potato
Chicken fillet & sweet potato.
Steak/turkey/fish & a load of veg.

snack on fruit, nuts & peanut butter in between.

Eat coconut oil. A spoon after a gym session.

Drink water.

You will be bursting at the seems. If you're not, up the dosage of protein & veg.

Great man many thanks. Really appreciate that. Just got that my fitness pal hopefully that should help also.