The Gravedigger Ghost Tour

Ben D Bus

Does it have permission (or even need it) to park and pick up from where it does on College Green? I presume not as it's a double yellow line.

I've just had to walk out onto the road to board a 40 bus. Parking where it does makes it impossible for buses to pull up to the kerb.

It's a pain in the ass and can't be safe.

macroman

It has a bus stop down where the 27 stop is. Although there is a big difference between bus stop and bus set-down area, plus it usually parks at the 13/40 bus stop not at its own.

punisher5112

Put in a complaint to the council and Gardai and also the regulator/carriage office.

More need to complain as what is happening and will happen more is db drivers will be passing stops that have vehicles parked in.

We as db drivers keep at the Unions, Management, Gardai and Council and nothing is done.

One reply given was the council are happy that private coach companies are using db stops as they are bringing money into the city.

HydeRoad

This argument reoccurs all the time. Why should Dublin Bus feel they have sole rights over all the bus stop space in the city? A bus is a bus, and a bus stop is a bus stop. There isn't enough bus stop space by far in the city. Far too many buses, and not enough bus stops. So why must Dublin Bus hog them all?

I see Dublin Bus are starting to park empty buses on Eden Quay again.

StreetLight

HydeRoad wrote: »

Far too many buses, and not enough bus stops. So why must Dublin Bus hog them all?

I would say that Dublin Bus has too many stops in places.

For example, why should the 16 stop at College Green northbound and then a matter of seconds later stop again at Westmoreland Street?

Also on Cork Street inbound, there are three stops between the junctions of Ardee Street and Saint Luke's Avenue - the same distance between O'Connell Bridge and The Spire!

LXFlyer

HydeRoad wrote: »

This argument reoccurs all the time. Why should Dublin Bus feel they have sole rights over all the bus stop space in the city? A bus is a bus, and a bus stop is a bus stop. There isn't enough bus stop space by far in the city. Far too many buses, and not enough bus stops. So why must Dublin Bus hog them all?

I see Dublin Bus are starting to park empty buses on Eden Quay again.

Given that they were there in the first place, why should they have to move? I'm asking that as a customer - why should people be put out because a new operator has come along?

It's incumbent upon the regulatory authorities to come up with safe locations for all operators so the current nonsense does not have to prevail.

I've long said here that there ought to be a second bus station built and operations split between it and Busaras so that all coach services have a safe place to park and load/unload.

As for Eden Quay, there is a need for a city centre layover point - DB lost Hawkins Street, so Eden Quay is the closest point. Operationally you will have times when you need to leave a bus there (no driver due to illness etc.).

end of the road

HydeRoad wrote: »

Why should Dublin Bus feel they have sole rights over all the bus stop space in the city? A bus is a bus, and a bus stop is a bus stop.

because they are speciffically dublin bus stops unless designated otherwise, so i'm afraid the "a bus is a bus and a bus stop is a bus stop" argument doesn't wash

HydeRoad wrote: »

There isn't enough bus stop space by far in the city. Far too many buses, and not enough bus stops.

unfortunately thats the case but its up to the private operators to call for stops to be erected for them.

HydeRoad wrote: »

why must Dublin Bus hog them all?

they don't hog them all, anyones they use are obviously designated for dublin bus.

HydeRoad wrote: »

I see Dublin Bus are starting to park empty buses on Eden Quay again.

i'm sure there is a legitimate reason for it

AlekSmart

HydeRoad wrote: »

This argument reoccurs all the time. Why should Dublin Bus feel they have sole rights over all the bus stop space in the city? A bus is a bus, and a bus stop is a bus stop. There isn't enough bus stop space by far in the city. Far too many buses, and not enough bus stops. So why must Dublin Bus hog them all?

I see Dublin Bus are starting to park empty buses on Eden Quay again.

A quick jog over to O'Connell St/Sackville Place junction will enable the talented (;)) observer to witness the other side of the coin ...The Heads to Hyde Road's Tail...

Here,we now have,in addition to the INCREDIBLE...AMAZING...HUMAN BUS STOP operated by The Red Bus Tour,a "Steam" Train Tour with Two Carriages...complete with Ringing Bell...all using a stretch of footpath between The Pedestrian Traffic Signals and Sackville Place.

Whether the Red Bus Tour have any LEGITIMATE Stop here is a moot point as they appear willing to pay whatever fines may be levied,such is the income stream.

It should be noted that Both competing City Tour operators were allocated ONE stop each on the revamped O Connell St....The Greens,so far,operate to that,but the Red Bus Tour Company has decided that it's Commercial opportunities outweigh any Public or Road Safety issues.

(The Red Bus Tour company DO actually have an official second stop in the vicinity,Stop1A on Abbey Street,which appears to be ignored in favour of the richer pickings at Clerys)

To suggest that the very busy multiple route stop 271 can continue to operate safely,when the various Service Buses approaching the Stop are unable to address the Kerb safely due to a ROAD TRAIN and Static Open Top Tour Bus parked on the approach is the stuff of insanity.

I have witnessed several Garda attempts to address the situation,but it appears that the Company is prepared to pay whatever fines may be levied rather than defer to either The Law,Public Safety OR Commonsense.

However,whilst attempts to impose any form of order on the Operator may have failed thus far,it could be the issue which causes greater upset should the Red Bus Tour Operator decide to tender for any of the NTA/BAC 10%.

The NTA has stated it's committment to providing Safe Public Transport,something which,presumably, it's applicants would be required to have some form of verifiable policy on....currently,the Photo/Video evidence covering the stretch of O'Connell St between Clerys and Abbey Street would tend to show a (VERY Visible) policy directly contrary to this......:(

But,all that said,the reality of Dublin City Centre being Overstopped,is by now obvious.

The removal of the Stops from Grafton St/TCD have allowed a substantial improvement on City Centre Transit time,and,I understand,with almost NO negative feedback.

Fewer but Better Designed,Better Laid-Out Bus-Stops...Island Style If necessary,making full use of the available roadspace would be of IMMENSE benefit to the Travelling Public.

However,whether or not the "Responsible Agencies" are prepared to take on any such responsibility is very much open to question....;)

HydeRoad

Totally with you on that one, Alek. Enforcement has a large part to play. But enforcement in my opinion would come next, after a proper review and allocation of bus stopping space. Those red buses take quite a liberty, but then, they are actively selling themselves on the street, unlike many other private buses that are just looking to load and unload. I'm not saying that's right, just highlighting one cause.

The issue is enormous. Failure number one is years of grossly negligent and frankly pathetic management of the whole city infrastructure for decades, from street layouts, to traffic management, to priority, to pedestrians, to bus stops, to signage, to everything. Dublin Bus have traditionally had 'grandfather' rights over all the bus stops, from the days when somebody simply arrived and plonked a pole down in a kerb. The bus stop locations are generally throwbacks to donkeys' years ago when there were no other buses in Dublin other than CIE, and everybody travelled by bus.

Nowadays, the demographics have changed radically. There is far more traffic, far less buses, far more private buses, far more taxis, and far less kerbspace. The idea that Dublin Bus can continue to command the vast majority of available kerbspace for an outdated and inefficient bus service that only a very small percentage of the city population use, while an ever increasing amount of private buses, handling port traffic, cruise ships, local and international tours, school groups, students, conferences, and a host of other work, much of which is part of the very fabric of the city economy, have to jostle for position, illegally boarding and alighting wherever they can, because there is simply no suitable allocation at all, is simply not feasible.

Those red buses are doing more than simply boarding and alighting. They are actively using the kerbspace to sell their wares, and arguably the tour bus in the OP is doing the same. They are most probably extending themselves well over what is reasonable to allocate them, but they have a place in the city, like everyone else, and the failure of the city authorities to liaise with them, and all the other people who need accommodation, leads to mayhem. How can you enforce anything on bus operators, or anyone else, when you haven't even begun to review what the basic requirements are in the first place?

Dublin City Council are much like Dublin Bus, in that they are trying to use the same approach that worked in the 1950s to accommodate the far different needs of the twenty first century. The whole system is wrong, from the very street layouts, to the passage of general traffic through it, and there is not the slightest sign that anyone in authority has any grasp or awareness of the need for a new approach befitting a new century. As you were, move along now.

smellmepower

Only a small % of the city population use Dublin Bus?news to me,am lucky if I can get a seat most days on the 13 or 40.

DB as mass public transportation should always have priority over private operators such as the gravedigger bus, panhandling for handfuls of tourists at busy cross city route stops and putting hundreds of commuters at risk by forcing them to step on to the road to board buses.

TheBandicoot

In fairness, I wanted to disagree with Hyde Road, but this survey from September '13 seems to indicate that car usage is up and bus usage is down in the GDA(page 14).

AlekSmart

HydeRoad wrote: »

Totally with you on that one, Alek. Enforcement has a large part to play. But enforcement in my opinion would come next, after a proper review and allocation of bus stopping space. Those red buses take quite a liberty, but then, they are actively selling themselves on the street, unlike many other private buses that are just looking to load and unload. I'm not saying that's right, just highlighting one cause.

The issue is enormous. ....... They are most probably extending themselves well over what is reasonable to allocate them, but they have a place in the city, like everyone else, and the failure of the city authorities to liaise with them, and all the other people who need accommodation, leads to mayhem. How can you enforce anything on bus operators, or anyone else, when you haven't even begun to review what the basic requirements are in the first place?

With your breadth of experience HR,I know that you post good sense.

I'm in general agreement on this issue also,however in fairness to the "City Authorities",it has to be pointed out that they DID engage with both Red and Green Bus Tours on the issue of Stops on O Connell St.

It is,equally,worth bearing in mind that the Original plan for OC St did NOT have a Taxi Rank,something which was reinstated after strong lobbying by the then Junior Minister For Transport it seems....

BOTH City Tour Operators were allocated ONE Stop each on the Street,a situation which ONE Company operates to,whilst the Other somewhat later decided to ignore.

The question for the "City Authorities" is which company's approach should be taken as being legitimate ?

It is of considerable importance when the greater issue of corporate responsibility for operating in manner known to be illegal AND dangerous is raised,as it most certainly will be as time passes.

IF the Red Bus Tour operator can make a case for an EXTRA Stop along the Street,then well & good...however,as either they have failed to make that case or not bothered to carry out any professional survey to do so, can they not be expected to simply abide by the law as others do ?...or is that too big of an ask in these enlightened times ?

HydeRoad

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'm in general agreement on this issue also,however in fairness to the "City Authorities",it has to be pointed out that they DID engage with both Red and Green Bus Tours on the issue of Stops on O Connell St.

Well that's fair enough then, regarding the red buses. I'm inclined to feel they provide an important function in the city, as do the equivalent Dublin Bus tour vehicles, and that the requirements of these tours really needs to be nailed down. Then let the enforcement take place, too, and be seen to. It doesn't quite do anything for the whole host of other private buses operating tours, both international and local, who need to pick up and set down at all the busy tourist locations, and the shops, jostling with the regular Dublin Bus services, and tours like the Gravedigger, which need to operate from somewhere. If not College Green, well then somewhere else. But where?

Only this afternoon, I was circling round waiting to collect a large tour group who were shopping (a LOT of shopping) in Henry Street. I vaguely suggested Fleet Street as a collection point, with an option on D'Olier Street. At 5pm, every street in the area is at a standstill, and kerbspace to pick up, let alone wait, is practically non-existent. It took 25 minutes to get from Cook Street to College Green, as College Green is down to single file, and is an unmanaged disaster. No Garda to stop cars from flooding into Westmoreland Street. Buses from Dame Street and Church Lane all jammed into single file, with taxis filling every available inch of roadspace, often right up against a bus driver's rear tailswing, leaving him trapped completely, and cyclists piling through from every angle. What a mess

Then finally I get through the meleé, only to find I can't make the turn into Fleet Street without mounting the kerb, because Fleet Street is full of parked, empty Dublin Bus vehicles. I squeeze through, then circle round into College Street, back to Westmoreland Street, and on to D'Olier Street. No space anywhere. Back into Fleet Street again, and meet one of my tour guides. Wedge myself into the kerb for a moment, watching the RT display at the bus stop (which tells me how many minutes I have before a Dublin Bus comes looking for his stop - a Godsend). Then a 150 arrives behind, so I have to move again. Circle again, and now there is my large group on O'Connell Bridge, but nowhere to collect them. I pull into D'Olier Street a second time. There is the N7 bus parked waiting for his departure time (because he hasn't been given a suitable location either) so I pull ahead of him, and into the Aircoach Cork stop, where the kerb is packed with people with suitcases. I only hope I can get my group loaded before he arrives. No point going to Nassau Street, as that'll be jammed too, as will Parnell Square, as will the quays. There is simply no loading space at all, anywhere for a private coach, and if there was, there would be an empty coach parked in it, as there is simply no adequate off street parking for coaches anywhere in Dublin, except down at the docks, which is too far in standstill traffic for coaches to make reliable collection times.

AlekSmart wrote: »

It is,equally,worth bearing in mind that the Original plan for OC St did NOT have a Taxi Rank,something which was reinstated after strong lobbying by the then Junior Minister For Transport it seems....

And which former Junior Minister might that have been...?