N5 - Westport to Turlough [open to traffic]

Mayodad

Off topic, but does anyone have a map of the proposed works on the N60 between Balla and Claremorris?

DumbBrunette

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120239682#Comment_120239682

No footpath was originally planned here, it is only included because ABP made it a condition of granting planning permission for the new road. It is possible that the design team added the footpath but did not widen the underpass to accommodate it, hence the narrow lanes. This is just speculation on my part though.

spakman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240260#Comment_120240260

That's a massive oversight surely!

DumbBrunette

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240443#Comment_120240443

It would be pretty scandalous haha! To be honest, I think the width is most likely OK. The picture shared by the local councillor is a bit misleading due to the traffic cones. If you look at the width from kerb to kerb it looks wide enough for two trucks.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240872#Comment_120240872

Connaught Telegraph going on about a “fault”. Paper attracting ink…..

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2023/02/14/concerns-raised-over-fault-with-new-mayo-bridge/

spakman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240872#Comment_120240872

I dunno, the footpath looks massive on left hand side, and the roadway looks far too tight.

So unless there's some photo magic going on, it looks like a problem, although reducing footpath width would seem a quick fix.

UsBus

You have got to be kidding regarding that bridge..??? Whatever about the cones misleading the actual width, would you want to be walking through on one side with two trucks passing each other..? How wide is that path on the right of the photo, 2 feet..??

All joking aside, the reason the bridge junction at claremorris is being built now is some clown in the council planning created a very dangerous junction to begin with leading to a number of fatalities.

We are prone to accepting abject failure in this country...

prunudo

It be grand, another layer of tar to go on, cones are in the way, white line isn't in the middle. It will be close but there will be room for them to pass.

Cosmo Kramer

Is that bridge part of the link from the new N5 into Westport? Or the link out to the N59 to Newport? Or some other stretch of road linked to the project - I can't place what part of the project that relates to?

Covieland

It's the lodge road that is going under the bridge in the picture above and the new N59 link/bypass to Newport going over it, there will be a roundabout before it to get into Westport but there will also be a roundabout on the link/bypass behind Allergan that you could also take to go to Westport

Pete_Cavan

Looks like the kerb on the right hand side of the photo could be set back a couple of hundred mm which would solve the problem. How often would two trucks travellingin opposite directions pass under that bridge at exactly the same time, once every few years maybe? The window of opportunity for it happening is literally a couple of seconds. When the new road is complete, would there be many trucks travelling under that bridge?

I don't see the issue with the footpath, it is reasonably wide. It might be a bit unpleasant for a pedestrian if wwo trucks passed under the bridge at the same time but nothing worse than that and again, it would be a once in a blue moon occurrence.

UsBus

Lads cmon, if this was a retrofit I'd say fair enough. This was built from scratch. One footpath is wide enough, the other is an after thought. If you're going to install a two ft wide path, someone will inevitably use it. I wouldn't be so sure leaving to this to chance. There is an NCT centre, tyre centre, other commercial businesses on one side. You have a new housing estate gone in the other side. I don't take a bike out on main roads myself but what about cyclists.?

It's a really poor attempt and shouldn't be accepted but probably will. It could be a pinch point in future for something to occur.

pjordan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120242860#Comment_120242860

The brutal reality (which has been pretty much confirmed in my correspondence with TII) is that this €220m project was developed and designed solely with motorist in mind without any concessions to pedestrians or cyclists (bar the greenway accommodation and some ancillary works on the N60 at Breaffy). Apparently because it was designed a good number of years back prior to the current drive towards sustainable transport there was no need for such considerations and any limited accommodations would be incorporated as poorly designed or considered afterthoughts.

It really does seem a pity and such a lost opportunity that an infrastructural investment so colossal as this should be so anti pedestrian and cyclist in exclusive favour of motor traffic, with a blatant almost pointedly calculated lack of concession to the former.

On a side point, I walked a section of it last week and got into conversation with another walker on the complete lack of a hard shoulder on almost the entire stretch of dual carriageway. We wondered what chaos will ensue when a vehicle breaks down with nowhere to pull over or when an Rtc occurs with no room to move offending vehicles to the side, or in a future likely scenario of electric vehicles running out of power trying to make it to Westport on a single charge?

DumbBrunette

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243426#Comment_120243426

Agree 100% on the lack of cyclist and pedestrian facilities in the original plan. It's extraordinary that this road was designed only 10-12 years ago but standards were so different. ABP ordered significant changes to the project, mostly around Westport, to improve active travel provision. It's worth reproducing here to show the extent of them:

3. Section A of the proposed roadway, that is from the Newport Road to Knockranny South, shall be modified as follows:

(a) A one metre wide grass verge shall be provided between the vehicular carriageway and proposed footpath/cycleway starting from the junction with the Attireesh Road (opposite plot P0180) to, and along, the south side N5/N59 link road (from chainage 2+000 to 2+764) as far as the junction with the old railway line on the Carrowbeg Road (at plot P0100). 

(b) A one metre wide grass verge shall be provided between the vehicular carriageway and proposed footpath/cycleway starting from the Allergan junction on the Carrowbeg Road to, and along, the south side N5/N59 link road (from chainage 3+000 to 4+305). 

The footpath, cycleway and grass verged area shall also extend south along the Knockranny Link Road to the Knockranny South roundabout and west to plot P0525. 

(c) A grade separated crossing (underpass or over bridge) with appropriate signage and road markings shall be provided across the N5/N59 link road (between chainage 2+000 and 2+300) to facilitate a continuity of movement for pedestrians and cyclists to and from the Great Western Greenway and the Western way. 

(d) The proposed Lodge Road underpass (under the proposed N5/N59 link road) shall include provision for pedestrians and cyclists.

(e) A link for pedestrians and cyclists shall be provided from the Lodge Road to the N5/N59 Link Road.

Reason: In the interest of traffic, cyclist and pedestrian safety and to support the cycling and walking asset that has been successfully promoted in the county.

DumbBrunette

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120241490#Comment_120241490

The councillor isn't happy that he's wrong haha

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2023/02/15/councillor-unhappy-with-response-over-mayo-bridge-fault-claim/

pjordan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244405#Comment_120244405

I suppose it demonstrates the benefits of having a strong active travel movement in Westport that such things were incorporated even if it was as an afterthought .

In Castlebar on the other hand the blatant aversion to any concession is striking, probably mostly so on the N84 Ballinrobe road where the footpath and non segregated cycle lanes come to an abrupt halt at the speed limit zone and the vast land margins on either side of the approach to the N5 over bridge have been grass seeded almost as an obvious deterrent to any pedestrian contemplating venturing forth. Mind you wading along what will fairly quickly become a muddy walkway is probably preferable to the brave (or daredevil) cyclist like myself who are compelled to share the hard shoulder-less road with motor traffic.

A tragic wasted opportunity which may well cost lives on a stretch of road which has already seen too many fatalities!

happyoutscan

The wide path is to accommodate cycling (the Greenway) but it is a massive oversight not leaving enough width for 2 x tricks and footpaths/greenway on one side and a footpath on the other. Just past this bridge on the right hand side you have Mini-Mix (gravel/cement), O'Horas kerbing, Homeland all of which have extremely heavy traffic (trucks/mixers/tractors/trailers). The NCT test centre is just past this as well. You also have a haulage company (I think there are 2) and Bourkes Waste. A huge amount of lorries etc will be using this road.

KrisW1001

The road is 2 lanes of 3.0 metres each. It looks like the councillor jumped into repeating a constituent’s complaint before checking the facts first, and now he’s too proud to admit that he was wrong.

For reference, the maximum permitted width for road vehicles in Ireland is 2.6 metres.

DumbBrunette

https://www.instagram.com/p/CoxSP1kNCh7/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Wearing course being laid on the N5 mainline at the outskirts of Westport.

DumbBrunette

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252142#Comment_120252142

Even leaving aside the width of the new underpass, the Lodge Road is in desperate need of improved pedestrian facilities from the Castlebar road down to Homeland.

At the moment there is a narrow and discontinuous footpath and you have to walk on the road in some areas.

A proper footpath/cycleway along the western side of the road from the C'bar Road to the new Monamore estate, with a pedestrian crossing across to Homeland, would do the job.

irishgeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120254527#Comment_120254527

Perhaps that's what the councillor should be shouting about.

Westernview

I presume you mean minimum width. Even if each lane meets the standard, I'd say it's still intimidating to use the footpath in such a confined space close to trucks passing. Ideally they would have put in a wider bridge or better still a separate segregated tunnel a metre or more away from the road for pedestrians and cyclists only.

mayo.mick

Why wasn't all this raised/flagged by the councillors at planning/design stage?

Upset locals in Islandeady. Seems they want an old stone wall rebuilt.

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2023/02/21/new-n5-in-mayo-wont-open-unless-community-concerns-over-wall-are-addressed/

Cosmo Kramer

Are they ever not complaining about something to do with the road in Islandeady?

I seem to remember lying down on the road didn't do much good the last time they built a new road in this part of the world.

Pete_Cavan

Anybody able to provide a Street View link to this wall before construction started?

TnxM17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271883#Comment_120271883

This is the street view location on Google Maps.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120272074#Comment_120272074

Thanks. Looks like a small section of a nondescript wall was removed.

DumbBrunette

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2023/02/22/nightmare-prediction-at-west-mayo-bridge-on-new-road/

The whinging and denial of facts continues.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271164#Comment_120271164

They seemed disgruntled throughout the project. Thankfully most of the other communities along the route have been a bit more tolerant otherwise it would never get finished.

A short length of curved wall either side should be enough to close it off?

marno21

As an aside, any word locally about when the various phases of this are to open?

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120272074#Comment_120272074

Whatever about the walls the junction looks much improved in terms of safety. I remember coming off the Islandeady road one evening last year, onto the N5, and having the discomfort of poor sight lines while having to use my handbrake to exit the ramp.

TnxM17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274866#Comment_120274866

To be fair the other issue was IMO justified, as it was proposed to close the road for 9 months and it would have been a very long reroute for residents of Islandeady to get to the school on the currwnt N5. But this current issue seems very small and almost petty. As you note the road is a lot safer and better sightlines then what was there.

@marno21 Last public comment was that the northern section from Turlough to current N5 Westport Road was to open in February, as they were awaiting signage. Lots of signs erected in last couple of weeks and to my untrained eye it looks ready, so not sure what the delay is.

KrisW1001

The wall they’re moaning about was only on one side, but honestly, I think it’s unfair to blame the whole village - this sounds like one or two people in the area with a grievance.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275692#Comment_120275692

I'd well believe that. Often it's just a few people behind these issues. They are on about some embankment that needs levelling now as well.

HBC08

I don't see the big deal about the wall but I also don't see how it would cost a quarter of a million looking at those pics.

All the big name councillors are really running with this issue too so there must be something to it.

Build the feicing wall and get on with it.

irishgeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275939#Comment_120275939

The embankment they are on it about is the field to the left of the road where they dumped the topsoil.

Late February/Early March for the breaffy to N5 west junction. So I'd say a few weeks yet.

Pete_Cavan

The N5 project has to be built in accordance with the planning permission, including that section of wall. If it is required by the planning permission, it should be reinstated. If that section of wall in on the drawings and there is no condition relating to it, its an issue for the council, not this project. I wonder are some people just trying to make things difficult because they feel put out by the works.

irishgeo

I wouldn't call a traffic diversion put out. Spare a thought for the people in breaffy who had rocking breaking going on for months.

Westernview

Looks like the councillors are organising a site meeting to try and sort out the issues. The field with the topsoil is much higher than it was alright but I would have thought the landowner would prefer it as it is now compared to the previous low lying field full of rushes.

Again it goes back to planning I suppose and what the final countours are supposed to be.

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2023/02/23/site-meeting-to-discuss-mayo-communitys-concerns-following-n5-works/

DumbBrunette

https://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/65097-anger-over-the-state-of-roads-serving-castlebar-rugby-club-after-being-used-in-the-construction-of-the-new-n5-dual-carriageway

A five minute rant from a local councillor on the Islandeady wall and the road at Castlebar Rugby Club. I agree with pretty much everything she is saying, but she is relying a bit too much on hyperbole IMO 😄

Cosmo Kramer

The potholes in that photo aren't even on the road, the road runs to the right of them - passing traffic would never drive over that bit of tarmac, which is outside the rugby clubhouse.

It feels like because the project is nearly finished now a few opportunists are trying to use it as a route to complain about everything and anything in the general area of the road they're not happy about or would like to be improved. They shouldn't be given an inch on any of this stuff, other than what is specified in the planning permission details. Because if they do it will just encourage more opportunists to do likewise and it will drag on for months.

UsBus

I'd imagine a CE scheme would have the Islandeady issue rebuilt fairly quickly if needed. It's not going to hold up the project opening, you would hope.

I'd say the February timeline is gone and I wouldn't hold much hope for March either. They are probably hoping the Westport side get their end completed so it all opens together. Was it April they said..? April 30th no doubt. Seems to be a lot of work still ongoing on the overpass on Ballinrobe road. They love the temporary traffic lights out there!

statto25

Can the road still be cycled at the weekends? Wouldnt mind taking a spin for a look

pjordan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283132#Comment_120283132

Cycled the full length of it over the weekend (Turlough to Ballinrobe rd on Sat and Ballinrobe rd to Newport rd, Westport on Sunday). It's pretty easy to slip in on foot or with a bike at any of the junctions where there are still gates or barriers up, but room at side to slip through. Plenty of walkers and cyclists out and about.

In terms of ready to open, from what I could see, the vast majority of signage seems to be now in place on the Turlough to old N5/Westport rd roundabout so it's likely that that section could be ready to open within the next month. On the other hand still a lot of work to be done on Westport stretch from Sheeaune to the Newport rd. Central and side crash barriers being installed, drainage final fix being sorted, very little signage as of yet and beyond the very big roundabout at the end of the dual carriageway section off Sheeaune there is still just a temporary road surface. Actually on section alongside GAA pitch from Allergan down to Newport road there isn't any tarmac at all yet.

So I'd say whilst we might see the initial section from Turlough to old N5 roundabout open before Easter it could be very close to summer before remainder is ready (In the meantime plenty of opportunity for cycling and walking at the weekends!)

pjordan

One rather perturbing thing I did notice yesterday whilst entering the new N5 from the N84 Ballinrobe road, in addition to the lack of a hard shoulder as previously mentioned, I notice the slip road from the N84 (as well as possibly all the other junctions) connects with the Dual carriageway via a T junction with a Stop sign. Apart from the unfortunately fairly high risk of those in these parts unfamilar with dual carriageways turning right onto the carriageway against the flow of traffic (it happened in Tuam too after the opening of the bypass) I'd just have concerns about the potential for accidents with traffic entering onto the dual carriageway into fast moving traffic without the benefit of a slip lane. It takes some time (and a fair degree of judgement of speed and distance regarding oncoming traffic) for any car to accelerate from a stop to the 80-100kmph of the approaching traffic. The lack of hard shoulder apart from the occasional pull over/parking lane periodically along the length of the dual carriageway is puzzling to say the least, but the lack of a slip lane for entry onto the dual carriageway seems a major and potentially dangerous design flaw (I recall a smillar issue with the exit onto the old Charlestown road from the new Charlestown bypass, whereby traffic was having to brake sharply to make the turn off, necessitating the undertaking of a re-engineering project to add a slow slip lane not long after opening to rectify this dangerous oversight)

TnxM17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293343#Comment_120293343

The same scenario regarding traffic entering the roadway was discussed on the N22 thread. Unlike the Charlestown Road which you mentioned there are 2 lanes on this so car can move to right lane if they see traffic. But ultimately it will be the responsibility of traffic entering to make sure the carriageway is empty before entering, same as most junctions.

These types of roads are quite new here - and importantly they are not dual carriageway. Thankfully most cars that do have an issue don't come to a complete stop and you usually have some notice to pull over to somewhere safe. I was pleasantly surprised that there was parking/pull over places located approx every 2 kms. So, in the event of a mechanical there is somewhere safe to pull in.

Hope you enjoyed the cycle!

spakman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293512#Comment_120293512

I don't think the risk should be downplayed.

Having to join a dual carriageway from a stopped position at a T-junction undoubtedly is much riskier than having time to pick up speed and gradually join from a slip road.

There could be traffic in both lanes travelling at 100km/h at frequent volumes. For some drivers, it would be very difficult to judge if they have enough time to join the dual carriageway and pick up speed quickly enough to avoid being rear ended.

Not to mention that the drivers cruising along the dual carriageway may not be paying any attention to the risk of traffic suddenly joining.

Surely adding 100m of a slip road wouldn't add that much to the original budget? Seems a no-brainer to me.

KrisW1001

A full-size junction has joining lanes that are at least 300 metres long. The junctions on N5 here are compact junctions, and so there is not room for such long joining lanes. (Also, there’s no hard shoulder)

A short slip-road actually makes the junction more dangerous, as it encourages the driver to join without adequate space to safely find a gap to merge into: for an example of how dangerous short on-lanes are, I suggest the N25 westbound at Oatencake/Midleton - traffic there has about 100 metres to get onto the carriageway, and it creates a hazard to traffic coming behind.

The stop-line (plus stop-sign, plus the word STOP painted on the road surface) on compact junctions forces any cars to stop and wait for a safe time to join. Having to wait a minute is infinitely better than sailing straight onto the road, having to jump in prematurely, and potentially causing an accident.

Remember this road is a dual carriageway mainly for safety reasons, not capacity: Traffic volumes on this road are low enough that nobody will be kept waiting for very long.

statto25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292849#Comment_120292849

Great stuff. I must tip out next weekend for a spin. What was the distance would know over both spins?