advice or information regarding distribution of subjects

miley2009

hello, I am new to boards and this is my very first post so I may not be in the right place but here goes. I am looking for some advice or information. I am a post primary teacher teaching 2 subjects in my school and I also have a cid. my timetable is split into roughly 7/8 one subject and 1/8 of another subject. I have requested to my principal on several occasions that I want to teach more of the second subject and try to have equal amount of both subjects or even more majority of the subject that I currently teach to a minimum on my timetable. a teacher of the subject that I wish to have more of has just left my school. am I entitled to gain hours now in that subject and for my hours in the other subject to be advertised. sorry if this sounds confusing but any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated.

RealJohn

I'd say that you're entitled to nothing more than to have the hours of your CID filled with subjects you're qualified to teach and maybe some fillers if necessary. That being said, assuming you're qualified (and recognised by the TC) to teach both subjects, I would think that most school managers would be amenable to giving you more of your second subject provided that doing so doesn't cause undue trouble in the school.

You said that you think that now that you think that now that a teacher of the other subject has left, they could give you some of those hours and advertise some for your subject too. Management might not want to hire another teacher of your primary subject (what subjects are we talking about anyway?) and would prefer to replace the other teacher, like for like, as it were, just to save hassle. I doubt that I need to tell you that timetabling can be a tricky business and management might want as few changes as is reasonable.

I would say that you should approach management and tell them that you'd like to have more of your second subject but don't start suggesting what they should do to replace the other teacher. What you teach is your business. What others teach is not, nor is who or how the school's management decide to hire to replace the other teacher.

miley2009

thanks for the reply realjohn. yes I understand completely where you are coming from and I know that the school management is not obligated to "make me happy" so to speak in any way other than to ensure I have a job which I am very grateful for. but I am in the school a long time now and I have seen requests made by other teachers been granted for similar things. I have asked my principal for more hours in this subject over the past 2 years. I started off teaching this same subject in this school but got switched due to career breaks and people leaving etc to the subject that I now teach a majority of and I am unhappy teaching it. I feel that having made requests to the principal previously and now that there is a vacancy in the subject I am looking for and the fact that I am more than qualified to teach more of it as I have done in the past my needs as a member of the staff should be met. I also should add that I got inspected in this subject during a recent whole school inspection and the ONLY recommendation the inspector made was that I should have more teaching hours in the subject.

rainbowtrout

If you are moved to the subject you want to be moved to where does that leave your other subject. Are you the only teacher of that subject?

miley2009

God know it's a large school there are lots of teachers in all subjects . A teacher has just left in the subject that I want more of . Should I not be given those classes and a new teacher employed in the subject that I am trying to cut down hours in .

rainbowtrout

miley2009 wrote: »

God know it's a large school there are lots of teachers in all subjects . A teacher has just left in the subject that I want more of . Should I not be given those classes and a new teacher employed in the subject that I am trying to cut down hours in .

That's not what I was asking. The subject that forms the majority of your timetable will have to be covered if you moved to the other subject. Is there another teacher of your current majority subject?

miley2009

Yes lots of teachers in this subject also however a teacher would need to be employed to cover some
Of the hours of the subject I am trying to get out of . My point is should my principal no try to look after me and hire a teacher after shuffling around the hours if the current staff . I a hope I am making sense .

seavill

I think, possibly, you are looking at the whole thing in too simplistic a manner. The timetabling in any school is extremely complicated. Just swapping one person for another is not necessarily possible, particularly at this stage. For example some of your classes in the old subject may not match up with the new subject, so class periods of the new subject may clash with class periods of the ones you want to keep thus making it impossible for you to swap that one.

I think the problem is that now the timetable is already done (or just about) and it is easier for the principal to replace like for like rather than going swapping around, it may take more movement than just you to facilitate it.

You are also only looking at it from your point of view, maybe your principal has had 5 teachers in looking for this that or the other and has made a decision where its easier to just not move anyone any more than give into every request. It may be the case that you are looking for a swap into that subject but so is another teacher so rather than upsetting either of you its easier to just employ someone to replace what is there.

It may be the case that you swapping may put a weaker teacher in your position or would mean the principal having to move someone somewhere that she is not comfortable in doing so. In cases like this it is never as simple as move one person and problem solved.

As with anything the needs of the school come first, not the needs (or wants) of a teacher. Those needs of the school can be many and varied and certainly not simple.

Usually anytime I have seen something like this happen the principal tries their best to accommodate where at all possible but I have also seen where a principal refuses point blank, and rightly so in one particular instance.

miley2009

And I am taking that into consideration I am looking at it from both angles . But there have been other teachers in my school over a few years now who have had their needs met on several occasions and I have not . I go above and beyond for my job and do anything that is required of me by management and it is upsetting that after a long time in a school that my welfare and career are not considered. Realistically all management have to do is give me the classes of the teacher that has left and then hire a teacher in my majority subject . Instead now I think management are hiring in the subject that I am wishing to be moved in to . I know that I am very lucky to have a job and I am grateful for that every day I truly am but I am qualified to teach 2 subjects and the one I am looking for more of is far more satisfying for me as a teacher . As I said if I didn't have to sit back and watch other staff members needs being met I wouldn't feel so bad .

seavill

"Realistically all management have to do is give me the classes" realistically this may not be possible, most likely isn't

Look in reality no one can answer your question only your principal. People have given you answers and different scenarios but you keep coming back with the same point.

You yourself have said that it has happened in the past so you know it is possible but its not being done for you so the only person who can answer why is either you or your principal. You clearly don't know why, I have given you numerous possibilities that take into account past changes but you won't consider these.

The timetable is most likely done now so just swapping someone over now as against being able to do it at the start of June are two different scenarios. Had this person left in June before the timetable was done it may have been more possible. But who knows because as I said no one knows the answer only your principal

To answer your question from your first post, which I think has been answered, no you are not entitled to anything, you can request it, and if you have a cooperative principal and it is possible it may happen. It may be that the principal is uncooperative, it may be that they don't like you and don't want to give you the position, it may be that they don't think you are up to the job, it may be a hundred other things but no you are not entitled to it but it can happen. Your best bet is to go in and speak to your principal next week when they are back and flesh it out as otherwise you will be forever wondering. This detailed discussion may change things for next year if not this year (I would say it would be highly unlikely to be possible at this stage of the year)

Knowing the way things work in a lot of schools you are lucky you are teaching 2 subjects you are qualified in and not lumped into something that you have no idea about

rainbowtrout

miley2009 wrote: »

And I am taking that into consideration I am looking at it from both angles . But there have been other teachers in my school over a few years now who have had their needs met on several occasions and I have not . I go above and beyond for my job and do anything that is required of me by management and it is upsetting that after a long time in a school that my welfare and career are not considered. Realistically all management have to do is give me the classes of the teacher that has left and then hire a teacher in my majority subject . Instead now I think management are hiring in the subject that I am wishing to be moved in to . I know that I am very lucky to have a job and I am grateful for that every day I truly am but I am qualified to teach 2 subjects and the one I am looking for more of is far more satisfying for me as a teacher . As I said if I didn't have to sit back and watch other staff members needs being met I wouldn't feel so bad .

I agree with everything seavill has posted.

Also on a very practical matter. The principal has to hire a teacher, there is a set of classes getting a new teacher in September. If he moves you and then hires a teacher, then two sets of classes are getting a new teacher. It is less of a change for the students if only one set of classes have a change rather than two.

I'd also say the timetable is done at this stage seeing as schools have to have them out to us by mid August.

I don't understand why your welfare comes into this. You have a CID and you are teaching both of the subjects you are qualified in. You don't have any other entitlement beyond that.

miley2009

Thanks so much for your input . It's good to hear all angles and perspectives .

TheDriver

On reading this thread, unfortunately the tone and choice of words makes me think there is more to this.....

Boober Fraggle

Could also be a case that it is difficult to find qualified teachers for your majority subject. If that is the case, your principal may find I easier to get a teacher they are happy with in your minority subject.

Did you submit a written request in May to have more hours in the minority subject? I know wish lists are considered in our school, but not at the expense of the needs of the school. Wish lists need to be reiterated yearly too, our principal wouldn't automatically assume that people want something just because they mentioned it in the past.

miley2009

I have verbally requested to my principal on several occasions . My majority subject is fine regarding finding teachers . The strange thing is that my minority subject is harder to find teachers in . As another poster pointed out there is a little more to why I am annoyed but I do not want to get into that as it isn't what I wanted to gain advice on . Let's just say that there is a lot of " who you know " and favours in my school that makes a normal teacher feel hard done by. Anyways thanks to all who contributed I have my answer I guess my principal is not obligated to give me the subject but if he wanted to he could ! But has advertised the position without even discussing it with me . I should add that prior to the advertisement of the job I left several messages and missed calls to my principal and he didn't have the respect or decency to answer or get back to me . And before anybody says have I done something wrong etc the answer is no I am a very hard working teacher and I do a lot for my school and my pupils receive good grades in both my subjects .

evolving_doors

Maybe consider an exit strategy from the school if you can find the right job elsewhere (courses etc!).

As you say your question has been answered here, but ill re-open the thread later if you want to post any further developments ... (I like a good follow-up story).

Sorry folks, I think its best to close advice threads if the op gets the answer. Otherwise we'd be asking for more info which the OP probably wouldnt want to divulge. (Sorry doc_17 !!).

doc_17

What subjects are we talking about? Perspective could be important in this instance.