The sardine bus to Dublin

Seanachai

I was visiting a friend in Limerick over the weekend and he recommended that I use the M7 express coach because it's cheaper than Bus Eireann. The journey down from Dublin was pretty okay besides the cold air being blasted on my temples from the tilted vents every now and then.

But the journey home wasn't comfortable, a slightly futuristic looking bus rolled up at Annacotty with blacked out windows on the side, 'this looks comfortable' I thought to myself. I got on and noticed that there seemed to be a lot more seats than on the same size bus that I had got to Limerick.

I then found a window seat and it dawned on me that the coach maker had managed to cram what seemed like twice the amount of f@8king seats onto the bus. I'm tall so I had to lower myself into my new space pod seat and realised that the back of the seat in front of me was inches away from my face.

It was one of the weirdest bus journeys I've ever had and when the guy in front of me tilted his seat back and somebody sat beside me I felt like a cow on the way to the factory. I hope the other bus companies aren't going to follow their lead, has anybody else stopped using the M7 express because of this and are there not health and safety laws about the space needed between one seat and another?.

devnull

Was it this?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/darren_hall/14676453496/in/photolist-omUEiE-me3P7M-kr8PjC-jDxui1-jttLXv-jtxaPC-jtxc3u-jtvQqY-jqsq6a-jqtMpt-jeF8Wp-jeF1aT-jeF8MB-j7KVPc-j7Q8BJ-j7N5d1-j7N2Gj-j7N3t9-j7Mo4H-j7Qfxs

They only have one of them, they are cheap and cheerful imported from China! Built to a budget.

They're designed to impress from the outside, some of their models having clearly been inspired by their competitors, but whilst they look good outside and are cheap, they're poor inside and the build quality I hear is not up to much. But I guess it fills a gap in the market.

Seanachai

That was it, it said King Long on the sun visor, had a star trek sort of a theme going on with the interior. My legs were in bits from being twisted and cramped, like I said the bus down was fine in terms of space but they should have some of the seats taken out of that one.

Muahahaha

I wonder are there any EU regulations on seat spaces in buses ? Done my fair share of backpacking in China and the buses there have seats jammed in inches apart. Probably the worst was Guatemala and Honduras where the majority of buses are old American school buses, the yellow ones with flashing lights at the back. On board all the seat spaces were designed for the leg room required by 12 year olds. Truly horrific sitting like that for six or seven hours with your knees literally jammed into the seat in front whilst hopping up and down on bad roads; at least the scenery was good:)

Seanachai

If it's just the one that they have I can try to avoid it for the next time I go down. I don't think they'll catch on in Ireland to be honest as greedy as some companies can be.

gctest50

for only 134,950 you can recreate the experience in your own yard

peckerhead

Is it my imagination or is the €1 reservation fee for booking online a recent development?
I don't remember paying it before, and I usually pre-book (but haven't used it in 5 or 6 months...)

Seanachai

gctest50 wrote: »

for only 134,950 you can recreate the experience in your own yard

There's a chicken hut down at the folks place I'll spend a couple of hours in that if I want a flashback :rolleyes:

Larianne

Seanachai wrote: »

That was it, it said King Long on the sun visor, had a star trek sort of a theme going on with the interior. My legs were in bits from being twisted and cramped, like I said the bus down was fine in terms of space but they should have some of the seats taken out of that one.

Got to remember, most Asian people are smaller in height than Europeans. Smaller legs, less leg room needed.

If it happens again, take the aisle seat and ask the person in front to keep their seat up.

macroman

It's a King Long XMQ 6130, the only one in Ireland - thankfully!

I had the (mis)fortune of being the first driver to take it out. You don't get much change from €270,000 which is cheap considering the spec of bus it is competing against - the Setra which are considered to be the best of the best come in around €310,000 a piece. The fixtures and fittings fall way below par with the existing 12 reg Setras with Dublin Coach.

I found the seats comical - the further down the bus you go, the tighter they became. The toilet is the smallest I've ever seen - you've to go outside to change your mind let alone wipe your arse... The ventilation system is a joke - no intermediate settings or climate control is either all on or all off. Like a lot of vehicles emerging from China it's very primitive compared to it's European counterparts.

Seanachai

macroman wrote: »

It's a King Long XMQ 6130, the only one in Ireland - thankfully!

I had the (mis)fortune of being the first driver to take it out. You don't get much change from €270,000 which is cheap considering the spec of bus it is competing against - the Setra which are considered to be the best of the best come in around €310,000 a piece. The fixtures and fittings fall way below par with the existing 12 reg Setras with Dublin Coach.

I found the seats comical - the further down the bus you go, the tighter they became. The toilet is the smallest I've ever seen - you've to go outside to change your mind let alone wipe your arse... The ventilation system is a joke - no intermediate settings or climate control is either all on or all off. Like a lot of vehicles emerging from China it's very primitive compared to it's European counterparts.

The seating space is ridiculous, I need the window seat as I tend to drift off on long journeys. I hope it's not a sign of things to come, adopting the Chinese ways, building hamster cage apartments for families to solve the housing crisis.

Seanachai

Travelled on a Bus Eireann bus from Wexford to Dublin on Sunday night and it had tightly spaced seats also. It was a '12 bus, Irizar maybe?, I didn't think that BE would start this craic.

end of the road

Seanachai wrote: »

Travelled on a Bus Eireann bus from Wexford to Dublin on Sunday night and it had tightly spaced seats also. It was a '12 bus, Irizar maybe?, I didn't think that BE would start this craic.

and probably a 2900 operated the train service? so no comfort for you either way.

lucernarian

I've been on intercity buses in 3 eastern and one western province in China and they're really not that bad. The "minibuses" lined up outside bus stations are shocking however. On the 4 routes I took, all except one did have much more legroom than Aircoach, Bus Eireann, Swords express or (especially) Matthews. But all the buses I saw lined up for intercity routes or else the tour coaches or airport limousine buses were some variant or other of a typical 35-seat coach.

Owing to the nature of toilets in china in general, I made sure I never had to use one!

I'm guessing jin long took the piss with a foreign company's order. Oh yes "leg room more than adequate sir".

Seanachai

Irizar are Spanish aren't they?, could BE be buying buses and then refitting the seats closer together. I'm 6' 2" and I had to sit with my legs to the side switching every now and then to avoid getting cramps, just ridiculous. There was a woman with wispy hair in front of me and it was touching my face at one stage.

I heard it from a BE driver recently that the management are seriously out of touch with what's happening on the ground and some of them had never travelled the routes they were managing. It seems like a decision a bean counter who doesn't use buses would make, 'ah sure cram as many seats as we can in to it!', as long as it conforms to the regulations then their arse is covered.

dublindiehard

There are other choices on many intercity routes, nobody is forced ot go with Irish rail or Bus Eireann.

The vast majority of prviately operated intercity vehicles have more leg-room than the King Long of Dublin Coach and the SE class of Bus Eireann, which whilst being an upgrade on the SP class in many respects, was a downgrade on what was offered in terms of leg-room.

I admit that Matthews are tight though.

Banjoxed

All buses are beautiful. It is being bus-ist to state otherwise. The sublimity of having a huge guy sitting next to you should be offered up as a sacrifice to the memory of Ayn Rand.

dublindiehard

* The vast majority with some noteable exceptions (sorry, cna't edit post)

end of the road

dublindiehard wrote: »

There are other choices on many intercity routes, nobody is forced ot go with Irish rail or Bus Eireann.

The vast majority of prviately operated intercity vehicles have more leg-room than the King Long of Dublin Coach and the SE class of Bus Eireann, which whilst being an upgrade on the SP class in many respects, was a downgrade on what was offered in terms of leg-room.

I admit that Matthews are tight though.

having a choice of operators doesn't mean operators should be complacent. no excuses

Crumbs868

Also highlights the contentious issue of putting your seat back on the bus. Common courtousy should be to ask the person behind and they should be under no obligation to say yes. You should not have had to sit in pain for 3hrs so the guy in front could have a "bit" more comfort

_Kaiser_

macroman wrote: »

It's a King Long XMQ 6130, the only one in Ireland - thankfully!

I found the seats comical - the further down the bus you go, the tighter they became.

Surely though it's possible to just take a few seats out and space the rest further apart?

foggy_lad

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Surely though it's possible to just take a few seats out and space the rest further apart?

When Bus Eireann make room on their NTA bought commuter coaches for a wheelchair they don't remove 4 seats on what is an already smaller than normal bus, they just bunch up the rest of the seats and leave a large gap where the wheelchair goes.

This will create it's own legal issues though with a full coach including a wheelchair passenger as the coach will be carrying 4 passengers above it's rated capacity. Legally when a wheelchair passenger is carried on a full coach then 4 seats will have to be left empty.

nlgbbbblth

Crumbs868 wrote: »

Also highlights the contentious issue of putting your seat back on the bus. Common courtousy should be to ask the person behind and they should be under no obligation to say yes. You should not have had to sit in pain for 3hrs so the guy in front could have a "bit" more comfort

I've always worked off the maxim

"Anyone who reclines their seat without asking the person behind is a prick".

Applies to buses and planes.

Seanachai

foggy_lad wrote: »

When Bus Eireann make room on their NTA bought commuter coaches for a wheelchair they don't remove 4 seats on what is an already smaller than normal bus, they just bunch up the rest of the seats and leave a large gap where the wheelchair goes.

This will create it's own legal issues though with a full coach including a wheelchair passenger as the coach will be carrying 4 passengers above it's rated capacity. Legally when a wheelchair passenger is carried on a full coach then 4 seats will have to be left empty.

I noticed that alright but they seem to be bunched up on the other side too. I was looking at the 101 BE coach outside a shopping centre and there seemed to be more room. I also remember traveling the same route to Wexford and having great leg room.

foggy_lad

Seanachai wrote: »

I noticed that alright but they seem to be bunched up on the other side too. I was looking at the 101 BE coach outside a shopping centre and there seemed to be more room. I also remember traveling the same route to Wexford and having great leg room.

It seems that the latest batch appear to have no seats removed to accommodate a wheelchair space but the older buses will have had at least one row of seats taken off the bus which gives more room. the Wexford buses are not commuter coaches but are intercity coaches and are designed to be more comfortable with more legroom for longer journeys but even the last batch of the i6 coaches were ordered with too many seats making many of the seats feel cramped.

Spook_ie

foggy_lad wrote: »

When Bus Eireann make room on their NTA bought commuter coaches for a wheelchair they don't remove 4 seats on what is an already smaller than normal bus, they just bunch up the rest of the seats and leave a large gap where the wheelchair goes.

This will create it's own legal issues though with a full coach including a wheelchair passenger as the coach will be carrying 4 passengers above it's rated capacity. Legally when a wheelchair passenger is carried on a full coach then 4 seats will have to be left empty.

Only one of the four, surely

foggy_lad

Spook_ie wrote: »

Only one of the four, surely

Nope, the rated capacity is listed as 51 seated passengers and 0 wheelchair passengers and 0 standees or 47 seated passengers when there is 1 wheelchair passenger and 0 standees. What that means is that the vehicle is not licensed to carry more than 47 seated passengers when there is a wheelchair passenger on board.

poggyone

foggy_lad wrote: »

Nope, the rated capacity is listed as 51 seated passengers and 0 wheelchair passengers and 0 standees or 47 seated passengers when there is 1 wheelchair passenger and 0 standees. What that means is that the vehicle is not licensed to carry more than 47 seated passengers when there is a wheelchair passenger on board.

Its nothing to do with comfort, it for evacuation of the bus in case of a emergency.

foggy_lad

poggyone wrote: »

Its nothing to do with comfort, it for evacuation of the bus in case of a emergency.

I don't understand how having all the seats bunched up together and having 4 of them empty when there is a wheelchair on board will help with evacuation in an emergency? surely the seats where the wheelchair space is should be removed from the bus as required as they are designed for quick removal? Bus Eireann obviously want to cut out this removal and reinstalling of the seats by simply pushing all the seats closer together making most passengers uncomfortable.

poggyone

foggy_lad wrote: »

I don't understand.

Is it not the same for most government/eu rules, they dont have to make sense to us but must be followed.

foggy_lad

poggyone wrote: »

Is it not the same for most government/eu rules, they dont have to make sense to us but must be followed.

What is not the same? what are you saying? what must be followed?

cdebru

foggy_lad wrote: »

I don't understand how having all the seats bunched up together and having 4 of them empty when there is a wheelchair on board will help with evacuation in an emergency? surely the seats where the wheelchair space is should be removed from the bus as required as they are designed for quick removal? Bus Eireann obviously want to cut out this removal and reinstalling of the seats by simply pushing all the seats closer together making most passengers uncomfortable.

How can they be quickly removed could a driver do it at the side of the road ? Is there space to store the removed seats ? How easy is refitting ?

Because I presume if you remove the seats then you permanently reduce the capacity of the bus to 47 even when there is no wheelchair user, which depending could be the vast majority of journeys, so 4 less passengers could be the difference between having to send another bus and not needing to, that is 4 less potential paying passengers, it all adds up.
Presumably under equality legislation it is first come first served, if the bus has more than 47 passengers then the wheelchair user may not board, if it has less then the wheelchair user can board but the bus is now full when it has 47 other passengers.
Pretty standard really DB has reduced capacity when a wheelchair is on board, it just depends on who gets there first.

Seanachai

dublindiehard wrote: »

There are other choices on many intercity routes, nobody is forced ot go with Irish rail or Bus Eireann.

The vast majority of prviately operated intercity vehicles have more leg-room than the King Long of Dublin Coach and the SE class of Bus Eireann, which whilst being an upgrade on the SP class in many respects, was a downgrade on what was offered in terms of leg-room.

I admit that Matthews are tight though.

JJ Kavanagh and the Wexford bus don't go through the part of Wexford that I'm travelling through only BE as far as I am aware.

Seanachai

foggy_lad wrote: »

I don't understand how having all the seats bunched up together and having 4 of them empty when there is a wheelchair on board will help with evacuation in an emergency? surely the seats where the wheelchair space is should be removed from the bus as required as they are designed for quick removal? Bus Eireann obviously want to cut out this removal and reinstalling of the seats by simply pushing all the seats closer together making most passengers uncomfortable.

It's a lazy, careless way of running a service if that's the case. I'd imagine it would make trying to get out of a crashed bus a lot harder too, possibly even lead to people being crushed, especially the bigger people.

Seanachai

cdebru wrote: »

How can they be quickly removed could a driver do it at the side of the road ? Is there space to store the removed seats ? How easy is refitting ?

Because I presume if you remove the seats then you permanently reduce the capacity of the bus to 47 even when there is no wheelchair user, which depending could be the vast majority of journeys, so 4 less passengers could be the difference between having to send another bus and not needing to, that is 4 less potential paying passengers, it all adds up.
Presumably under equality legislation it is first come first served, if the bus has more than 47 passengers then the wheelchair user may not board, if it has less then the wheelchair user can board but the bus is now full when it has 47 other passengers.
Pretty standard really DB has reduced capacity when a wheelchair is on board, it just depends on who gets there first.

So the bottom line is that Irish people are being inconvenienced because of another stupid EU regulation.