The Dream: B&B (and wedding venue and small farm) - But what about AirBNB?

Suaimhneach

Hey,

I searched the forum but could only find very old listings for B&B questions.

I have a pipedream with my OH to buy and run a B&B, events place, with a few chickens and a turtle. Something like Mount Druid / Boutique Camping being the dream realised perhaps!

But I started looking into regulations, which are somewhat depressing.

And then I wondered how AirBnB confuses the mix, because I guess being registered with Board Failte is optional?

Anyone got any thoughts or experience in this realm who can give insight into the industry?

Obviously I am at the very beginning research phase of this plan but I wanted to get some insights and hopefully save time being wasted!
Thanks!
S

pedronomix

Mount Druid is a very special operation and looks like it had a lot of money pumped into it. Does it actually make money? what kind of debt levels is it sustaining/servicing? It is always a good idea to model a new business on an established model, You should ask them, or even offer to work there for free to learn and understand the business.

Your next task is to ensure that your venue offers an interesting, unique, quality and attractive proposition to your target market. What you might like or can afford are of little relevance.

You will then need a properly worked business plan to prove your model. Marketing costs will also be a decent number.

Bord Failte, AirBnB minutae etc are important but such concerns are well in the future!!

Lots and lots of real research and realistic financial planning are key, especially on a project that has large capital and investment requirements.

There was a couple on Dragons Den UK doing this a while back looking for investment. They already had a it setup for years and were making profits on it, but in order to make any decent profits they needed to expand. It seemed like the business needed scale to make it really work.
They had issues with not owning the land, and lease's that weren't long enough and so didn't get investment as far as I remember. You might want to find that episode and have a look!

pedroeibar1

Suaimhneach wrote: »

Hey,

I searched the forum but could only find very old listings for B&B questions.

I have a pipedream with my OH to buy and run a B&B, events place, with a few chickens and a turtle. Something like Mount Druid / Boutique Camping being the dream realised perhaps!

But I started looking into regulations, which are somewhat depressing.

And then I wondered how AirBnB confuses the mix, because I guess being registered with Board Failte is optional?

Anyone got any thoughts or experience in this realm who can give insight into the industry?

Obviously I am at the very beginning research phase of this plan but I wanted to get some insights and hopefully save time being wasted!
Thanks!
S

Judging by your opening post you have absolutely no idea, none.
A B&B is one sort of business, a farmhouse holiday destination is a second, an events management operation is a third and a glamour camping is a fourth. Try to do all that and you will fail.
Forget pipedreams, chickens and your turtle. Focus on reality. It is demeaning to you & your OH to ask people here to do your homework for you, so post something specific, like the amount of available capital, what you have already planned, the available land area, general location, your experience in the hospitality / events management sector, etc.

At this stage Bord Failte is the least of your worries; you need to first decide what is feasible.

Suaimhneach

Hey guys!

Thanks for your replies.

pedronomix wrote: »

You should ask them, or even offer to work there for free to learn and understand the business.

I actually did this the same night I posted this! With regard to your other advice, I actually studied business and know a ton of it, but it's great advice either way I havent quite gotten anywhere near this yet, as I tried to state really clearly, I was just looking for some first thoughts.

Deleted User wrote: »

There was a couple on Dragons Den UK doing this a while back looking for investment. They already had a it setup for years and were making profits on it, but in order to make any decent profits they needed to expand. It seemed like the business needed scale to make it really work.
They had issues with not owning the land, and lease's that weren't long enough and so didn't get investment as far as I remember. You might want to find that episode and have a look!

Thanks so much! I will definitely take a look if/when I get around to doing more research!

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Judging by your opening post you have absolutely no idea, none.
A B&B is one sort of business, a farmhouse holiday destination is a second, an events management operation is a third and a glamour camping is a fourth. Try to do all that and you will fail.
Forget pipedreams, chickens and your turtle. Focus on reality. It is demeaning to you & your OH to ask people here to do your homework for you, so post something specific, like the amount of available capital, what you have already planned, the available land area, general location, your experience in the hospitality / events management sector, etc.

At this stage Bord Failte is the least of your worries; you need to first decide what is feasible.

I feel like this is very aggressive. Words like "demeaning" are really demotivating and almost insulting! My opening post includes the words "pipedream" and I also explicitly said "Obviously I am at the very beginning research phase of this plan". When I saw I had three replies I was so excited, this was so sad to see.

I am fully aware I have three different business models at play here, but I'm going to take your attempt to give me feedback and assume best intentions and hopefully we can get it right.

You are quite right I wont have a successful business doing all three if I just stupidly walk into them thinking about turtles. I dont think we want a successful business in the traditional sense (ie huge immediate ROI and expansion). I think we want a nice home and a steady income to start. I think my OH would take great joy running a B&B (and minding the chickens) and I would continue to work as our main source of income to start. From there, assuming (and again, pipedream, lots of assumptions) we were fortunate enough to have a property that allowed expansions such as those at Mount Druid we could expand into that realm over time.

As for resources and skills, I've run large events and a friend who just finished a post grad qualification in events management is interested in the idea (in a pipe dream sense, and also doing baby-steps research). My OH and I have tech backgrounds and would work towards having enough capital to never be at financial risk before purchasing a property.

It's also not actually a goal to have Yurts at all, their model is just what I was referring to (ie B&B, more than one property, interesting piece of land, host events).

Maybe it would have been better to start saying I am dreaming big, expecting to whittle down to something realistic and I was just looking to throw ideas around with other business people who've done anything similar in Ireland. I have zero expectation of people "doing my work for me", I know how the internet works, thanks. Maybe this was the wrong forum, and I need to find somewhere more appropriate. Let me know if you have a suggestion.

I would welcome any supportive feedback.

pedronomix

OP, you may well have hit the nail on the head in your own post. This is not the place to do research on B&Bs, Glamping etc, it is an SME/self employed Business and Enterprise forum and therefore it is only reasonable that you will get responses that are focussed on the business case being made (or lack of it!) or requests for specific business information etc. Pipe dreams are generally met with rather robust replies, which rarely go down well with the OPs.

If you look at the pages of topics, you will get a better idea of the range and focus of this forum. I am sure that some of the other holiday/recreation/wedding forums would be better for idea feedback. It is highly unlikely that there is more than one or two people on here who would have any of the kind of information/advice you seek.

pedroeibar1

Suaimhneach wrote: »

I feel like this is very aggressive. Words like "demeaning" are really demotivating and almost insulting! My opening post includes the words "pipedream" and I also explicitly said "Obviously I am at the very beginning research phase of this plan". When I saw I had three replies I was so excited, this was so sad to see.

I would welcome any supportive feedback.

I did want to push the envelope a bit to see how serious you are, so thank you for your longer post. Supportive feedback usually is waffle, what every business needs is critical feedback, which includes the questioning of daft ideas.

There is no harm in having pipedreams provided they are critically examined and when found lacking you move on to another one, and continue doing this until you get an idea that will succeed. Staying with an unworkable pipedream is escapism, daydreaming, a distraction and dodging reality. It has no place in business.

To expand on my earlier comments -

B & B’s – many have closed, often more than 50% in some areas. Near Dublin Airport there used to be dozens in Swords, today there remain just a few. B & Bs - in its current guise – is a failed business model. There is a surfeit of hotel rooms in the country (particularly outside Dublin, where most tourists do not venture), many hotels are run by receivers who just want bums in beds to break even, no interest in or ability to pay down debt. What couple would stay in a B&B at €70 a night when a hotel (with all sorts of facilities) is available for the same or a few quid more? And there is little/no profit for a B&B at those prices.

Chickens & a turtle – that is not enough: a few country B&BS do the farm-stay vacations very well, with a full range of animals (some even have llamas), a milking parlour, herb and veg. gardens, etc. They have survived because they have built up a clientele and are extremely good at what they do.

Capital expenditure - Forgetting about the housing bubble (still there, another pricefall is just around the corner) land prices in Ireland remain considerably higher than elsewhere in Europe. Currently farmland is almost double the price of that in the UK. Where are you going to get the cash? Even to rent it? Say 100 acres at €250 an acre (cheap) will run you €25k. You have no hope in servicing that.

Camping/Glamping – Camping is for young families that want a holiday and cannot afford ‘real’ accommodation. (OK, they say they want the outdoor experience but ask any woman does she want a hotel room or a tent!) Most will bring their own food or stock up en-route in a supermarket, buying their eggs in Lidl at €1 for six, rather than your organic free-range ones at €1.50. Glamping is a fad, a hangover from the Celtic tiger days. It is fine if you want to pretend you are someone like Hemingway on safari in Africa, your every need catered for by hordes of low-cost natives saying ‘Yers, massa’ ; that model does not work in Ireland, where it is cold, with rain, high wages, midges, a walk to a communal toilet/shower and not enough people with that sort of money who are prepared to sleep under canvas. I know of one such operation and from what I have seen that side of their business is dead and supported by other activities.

Consider your marketing costs to launch your business – a campaign, including newspaper coverage, costs the same whether you have 100 or just 10 beds. So if a campaign costs €35,000 (which is not a lot) and you have ten beds, you must make €3,500 from each bed. With a hundred beds that drops to €350, a difficult enough figure when all other costs are taken into account.

Suaimhneach

Suaimhneach wrote: »

I would welcome any supportive feedback.

The problem is with a business idea like your suggesting, your unlikely to get supportive feedback from anyone who critically looks at your idea. Its complex, high risk, and involves the need for a lot of capital. I mean personally I would tell you to run a mile from something like this (you'll notice the dragons did if you get to see that episode!) But then again we all have our dreams, and its not my place to tell you not to live the dream.
But the harsh feedback you've received is something you should welcome and embrace. Because if you are seriously going to look at this idea, getting the free pulling apart of the idea that your getting here, you would often have to pay for.

Personally for any businesses ideas I have, I send them to people to unravel as best they can. No holes barred. There is absolutely no room for sensitivity to criticism when approaching a business of this kind of scale.

antoinolachtnai

The regulations you are looking at are for guesthouses rather than B+Bs. It depends on the scale you have in mind really.

In relation to AirBnB vs Bord Failte, you really need as much marketing support as possible from anywhere you can get it in the early days.

If you are building/refurbing anew, you really might as well go in with a great spec which exceeds all the standards.

The other option is to go in a completely different direction - hostels, self-catering, etc. There is a market in all that stuff too.

It is worth bearing in mind that in many parts of the country, there is a surfeit (i.e., too much) high quality accommodation.

It also depends on your situation in life. Some people go into a business like this because they already have enough money and are in a position to do it because they like the idea of the lifestyle. This sounds crazy, but it is actually true. Also, people go into these businesses because they already own a house that is sort-of suitable and they need a job. It is hard to compete against these categories of people.

All the other posts are very good too. You have to expect people to be cynical. It's a very tough business to repay a loan from.

Suaimhneach

I welcome critical feedback of the idea, once it's not personal which is how I took the first round of posts but all of this stuff is golden and is really making me think further. I'm busy now but will think on this and reply in more detail. Quick thoughts:

I have given thought to setting it up in the UK (close enough to home, better weather, bigger tourism market, better price per acre) but really want to be in Ireland if possible.

Llama's are actually where all this started, well, alpacas, http://www.alpacasofireland.com/ has some amazing information about how much land they need and what sort of handling they need! To say WAY more research needed here is an understatement. Chickens and turtles were for the OH, not for the business really, though adding them as something optional might add to the USP.

Ok, really gotta go but thanks guys. Will think further and post more.

pedronomix

'Twas the Dalai Lama that started the decline of The Beatles, History repeating itself?