End of an era.....Fiat

kupus

and a hello to Fiat Chrysler, sad to see fiat turn into a usa company, change its tax credits to dutch, base it in uk, and list on nyse.
For me fiat is italian, so i wonder whats in store for the future of fiat usa.

unkel

Saw that a few days ago. Nothing has changed really. Many multinationals these days are based in the Netherlands / Ireland to avoid taxes. Apple, Microsoft, U2, the list goes on...

visual

Lower taxes and USA is a big market

fiat in Europe isn't the big volume seller it once was. Long time since I was on a fiat forecourt
500L is the only thing that was recently design.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Wonder what will happen to all the Fiat subsidiaries (if anything) as a result of this.

antodeco

Once they leave the sexy Alfas alone, I'm ok with it

visual

Chrysler has out sourced the cherokee to be manufactured in china since it partnership with Fiat

being a global company it might be following apples foot steps.
American product made in china with IP rights in some low / no tax country.

From what I can see Fiat seem better placed in commercial vehicle market.

porsche boy

I can't say for a fact but I reckon FIAT do better business selling their engines to other manufacturers then by selling pasaanger cars. Their commercial range is bigger then their pasaanger range now. And if chrysler can shoehorn some of those engines into cars in the US then it makes business sense, well more sense then teaming up with Mercedes did.

quadrifoglio verde

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Wonder what will happen to all the Fiat subsidiaries (if anything) as a result of this.

Well lancia is going Italy only in the same way autobianchi did back in the day.
Also it's not the first exor company to move headquarters to the uk. CNh did it a few years back so they've got a bit of experience in doing it.
I ain't complaining, chryslers cash is allowing the investment in Alfa.

wonski

visual wrote: »

Lower taxes and USA is a big market

fiat in Europe isn't the big volume seller it once was. Long time since I was on a fiat forecourt
500L is the only thing that was recently design.

I was sure they had a much bigger range of recent cars. None of them available here though. Ever heard of Linea or Sedici?

visual

wonski wrote: »

I was sure they had a much bigger range of recent cars. None of them available here though. Ever heard of Linea or Sedici?

I wasn't familiar with either and considering they first rolled off production lines in 2005 & 2007 and still in production it is not very encouraging they will ever hit the streets here.

When I was growing up Fiat where a big seller
126 127 124 128 131 were all popular.
Then the switch to names with uno ritmo bravo etc... and biggest seller punto .

But its not often I see a new Fiat these days of those I do its panda or 500 and rare grand punto.

Fiat diesel engine is reported to be a very good engine maybe it will appear in a lot of other cars as time goes on.

Hate to see any brand disappear as too many have form partnership and produce the same vehicle with different badges.

Chrysler and Fiat may be a last ditch attempt by both failing brands to regain former glory.

wonski

visual wrote: »

I wasn't familiar with either and considering they first rolled off production lines in 2005 & 2007 and still in production it is not very encouraging they will ever hit the streets here.

When I was growing up Fiat where a big seller
126 127 124 128 131 were all popular.
Then the switch to names with uno ritmo bravo etc... and biggest seller punto .

But its not often I see a new Fiat these days of those I do its panda or 500 and rare grand punto.

Fiat diesel engine is reported to be a very good engine maybe it will appear in a lot of other cars as time goes on.

Hate to see any brand disappear as too many have form partnership and produce the same vehicle with different badges.

Chrysler and Fiat may be a last ditch attempt by both failing brands to regain former glory.

I would love to see Fiat back in the business, too.

Fiat in Ireland is dead - we don't even see the Punto that was released in 2012. It is surprising since it is a perfect market for small, cheap and economic hatchbacks.

I do remember when Punto/Bravo/Tipo and Uno were on every corner. These always were good cars, regardless of the overall opinion of being unreliable or sluggish.

They were good at what they were designed to do, and peopple loved the design. Always ahead of the rest - compare the Bravo, or Uno to anything else from this era (let's exclude Audi /BMW and Merc from this competition).

quadrifoglio verde

visual wrote: »

I wasn't familiar with either and considering they first rolled off production lines in 2005 & 2007 and still in production it is not very encouraging they will ever hit the streets here.

When I was growing up Fiat where a big seller
126 127 124 128 131 were all popular.
Then the switch to names with uno ritmo bravo etc... and biggest seller punto .

But its not often I see a new Fiat these days of those I do its panda or 500 and rare grand punto.

Fiat diesel engine is reported to be a very good engine maybe it will appear in a lot of other cars as time goes on.

Hate to see any brand disappear as too many have form partnership and produce the same vehicle with different badges.

Chrysler and Fiat may be a last ditch attempt by both failing brands to regain former glory.

Chryslers sales are up massively, as are jeep and ram in the states. Last month chrysler sales were up 20%.
Jeep was up 40%.

The fiat Diesel engine, the jtd is already used in lots of cars outside the fiat group. Most of gms diesels use a rebadged fiat engine (due to the arrangement back in the early 2000s that nearly destroyed fiat).

On the models, they haven't had the money to invest in new ones, the plan for fiat always seemed to be get hold of Chrysler (on the cheap) and turn it around and then use the larger company to raise cash. They've done that, now they need to convince investors to lend to them.

Chrysler cost fiat feck all in comparison to what they got (greater access to the us market, reducing reliability on European economy, ownership of jeep, better economies of scale). Oh and it was cheap, they basically bought chrysler, with chryslers cash

kupus

afaik it is fiat that have initiated this merger. they had the cash reserves and wanted to break into the states again. so they are going to use chrysler dealers as co dealers for the fiat range.
Sedici is the same car as the suzuki sx4.

visual

wonski wrote: »

I would love to see Fiat back in the business, too.

Fiat in Ireland is dead - we don't even see the Punto that was released in 2012. It is surprising since it is a perfect market for small, cheap and economic hatchbacks.

I do remember when Punto/Bravo/Tipo and Uno were on every corner. These always were good cars, regardless of the overall opinion of being unreliable or sluggish.

They were good at what they were designed to do, and peopple loved the design. Always ahead of the rest - compare the Bravo, or Uno to anything else from this era (let's exclude Audi /BMW and Merc from this competition).

Had a couple of fiats in the past they where ok rust was an issue but most cars from that time suffered from rust. I think the head gasket of the punto was a disappointment for many owners to what was otherwise an excellent car.

visual

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Chryslers sales are up massively, as are jeep and ram in the states. Last month chrysler sales were up 20%.
Jeep was up 40%.

The fiat Diesel engine, the jtd is already used in lots of cars outside the fiat group. Most of gms diesels use a rebadged fiat engine (due to the arrangement back in the early 2000s that nearly destroyed fiat).

On the models, they haven't had the money to invest in new ones, the plan for fiat always seemed to be get hold of Chrysler (on the cheap) and turn it around and then use the larger company to raise cash. They've done that, now they need to convince investors to lend to them.

Chrysler cost fiat feck all in comparison to what they got (greater access to the us market, reducing reliability on European economy, ownership of jeep, better economies of scale). Oh and it was cheap, they basically bought chrysler, with chryslers cash

Chrysler and Jeep have yet to see the Fiat influence and their US customers are very loyal to the brand especially Jeep owners.
From my own involvement with jeep forum there is great interest in diesel in the states.
The VM diesel from Italy is the current diesel offerings. Scope for Fiat to get their diesel in there.

alias no.9

It'll take some time to settle but with little or no overlap between Fiat and Chryslers ranges, it's a good fit for a merger. The corporate shyte is, well, corporate shyte. Did anyone really notice when Porches botched attempted hostile takeover of VW resulted in VW taking over Porsche? How about Tata taking over Jaguar Landrover? The domicile of the parent / holding company doesn't determine the product range.

quadrifoglio verde

The vm diesel is owned fiat...

On the subject of cars with fiat underlyings, you have the dodge dart, the jeep Cherokee and the new 200(Alfa Giulietta).
The jeep renegade will have similar underlying a as the 500.
While fiat haven't exactly influenced the entire line up, fiat and Marchionne done one thing that most thought impossible. They managed chrysler effectively enough to turn it around in a few short years and keep the actual fiat group afloat.

MuppetCheck

Had a 1.3 diesel fiat for a while and it was great.

Had a modified JTD and it was utter shyte.

I think FIAT are a no great loss in modern times. The commercial business is what makes them profitable. But I do hope they keep Alfa a marque you can lust after. The Giulietta and Mito are meh, but the 4c and 8c are droolworthy.

visual

alias no.9 wrote: »

It'll take some time to settle but with little or no overlap between Fiat and Chryslers ranges, it's a good fit for a merger. The corporate shyte is, well, corporate shyte. Did anyone really notice when Porches botched attempted hostile takeover of VW resulted in VW taking over Porsche? How about Tata taking over Jaguar Landrover? The domicile of the parent / holding company doesn't determine the product range.

Don't think Jag will continue on as each year it seems to be working on diminishing returns and lack of investment. Landrover is a icon so there is some mileage to be gotten if they don't stray too far from its roots.

but Fiat in US will need to come up with some serious models as the 500 and 500L is getting old and novelty will wear off.

hi5

I don't care who owns who as long as they keep making cars like this..

Phil_Lives

Italian Government only have themselves to blame for this.
They at the behest of Unions treated FIAT like a political plaything for years.

FIAT were actually forced to build cars in Italy by overpaid workshy miltants.
The last Panda was a hugely profitable vehicle built in Poland and the Unions through Government forced them to bring production back to Italy.

FIAT has never been able to get on top of their Quality Control problems in Italy.

Stallingrad

End of an Era happened a long time ago. When was the last time you coveted a Fiat?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Stallingrad wrote: »

End of an Era happened a long time ago. When was the last time you coveted a Fiat?

At the Terenure car show, outside the axa stand. They had a new 4c coupe there. Pretty nice fiat imo.
I didnt care for the earlier models though (except the Panda, Multipla, and pre facelifts 156 & 166)

kupus

Stallingrad wrote: »

End of an Era happened a long time ago. When was the last time you coveted a Fiat?

ive been pining after my 91 panda since I had to bring it round the back and give it the double barrel. pound for pound the best car ive had. one hell of an amazing workhorse.

quadrifoglio verde

Stallingrad wrote: »

End of an Era happened a long time ago. When was the last time you coveted a Fiat?

I wouldn't say no to an abarth 500.

kmb

The problem for people like me who loves Fiat is that there is no clear upgrade path when I decide to trade in my Bravo sport 150bhp.
I have had the 850,128,uno,punto,brava,stilo and now the bravo.
The Chrysler delta is not a car I would purchase unless I got a exceptional deal.
Forget VW,Audi,Bmw etc just doesn't do it for me with all their problems which I needn't mention here as they are well outlined in this forum.
This is not a attack on these brands but Fiat has just being very solid for me down through the years. I cant see myself driving any of the Fiat 500 models either.
I can honestly say my next car will be electric and next year as soon as the battery driving range increase.
I saw the Zoe in Mahon point recently and was surprised by the size. At the moment I could be swayed by the Leaf or Zoe unless something new comes into the market.

quadrifoglio verde

kmb wrote: »

The problem for people like me who loves Fiat is that there is no clear upgrade path when I decide to trade in my Bravo sport 150bhp.
I have had the 850,128,uno,punto,brava,stilo and now the bravo.
The Chrysler delta is not a car I would purchase unless I got a exceptional deal.
Forget VW,Audi,Bmw etc just doesn't do it for me with all their problems which I needn't mention here as they are well outlined in this forum.
This is not a attack on these brands but Fiat has just being very solid for me down through the years. I cant see myself driving any of the Fiat 500 models either.
I can honestly say my next car will be electric and next year as soon as the battery driving range increase.
I saw the Zoe in Mahon point recently and was surprised by the size. At the moment I could be swayed by the Leaf or Zoe unless something new comes into the market.

It's the same with Alfa, the 159 stopped production in 2011 with nothing else to follow in that class. By the time the Giulia comes along most of the people who would have traded in their 159 for a new model found themselves with nothing available.

kupus

...the chrylser delta is badged as the the lancia delta on the continent, I wonder would that change peoples perception of it, if they knew it only as a lancia.

quadrifoglio verde

kupus wrote: »

...the chrylser delta is badged as the the lancia delta on the continent, I wonder would that change peoples perception of it, if they knew it only as a lancia.

Well it's been a bit of a flop because the lancia buyer of old who may have been swayed by it realised that he'd get more bang for his buck with a passat! Lancias of old were truely amazing cars, but you paid the higher price for them.

Old diesel

In fairness - the 500 DID introduce a bit of wow factor to Fiat - I personally think the modern version does look nice (something very hard for a retro design like that to do).

I also think the new Panda was/is a car with a lot of potential.

Fiat were traditionally on the ball when it came to small cars - especially making them very roomy in size - was just thinking of that this morning actually.

The Mk 1 Punto was a great seller for them over here - and part of the reason for this - was the level of space inside - which made them a VERY attractive proposition under scrappage.

Downsizing to a Punto from a bigger car - was a viable proposition space wise.

They dropped the ball with the Mk 2 Punto though - it just didn't drive the game on enough.

The last model Panda shows what they CAN do though, I hope the new model is holding up well reliability wise - as it does what Fiat does well - small cars.

I think the way forward for Fiat is to get the finger out - and start working on a REAL game changer of a car - something reasonably priced but with a bit of spark and a bit of a wow factor about it.

Something that stands out from the crowd styling wise like the 500 - but with the practicality of a Panda - and which drives REALLY well.