Running costs of an M3 compared to 330i or 328i?

porsche959

Can anyone tell me, are costs of running an M3 significantly higher than a big engined "standard" 3 series?

Ardennes1944

For road tax and fuel consumption, and for me insurance, then no. But for parts and servicing, then yes. When I had my 325 I was thankful everytime I bought parts when I saw the price of M3 parts. Brakes for example were almost 4 times as expensive as for my 325

Alanstrainor

The tax will be 1809 vs 1494 for the other two. So not insignificant. I would wager the insurance difference could be considerable also. But as said parts on these cars ain't cheap. All that being said you can buy them cheap these days and so long as you have a good bit of change left over for keeping it tip top I don't think it would be crippling. There is just no comparison between a 330ci and an M3 though, the difference is vast!

coolisin

The difference is massive!!

Having driven a 330i and an m3 back to back I know an e46 against an e90 but the m3 was something special!

The running costs are not overly cheap on the 330, they are no where near as expensive as the m3 but you'll still be spending a fair whack on maintaining it.

If you want closer to an m3 but with mildly cheaper motoring you have to be looking at the 335i.

The reason the m3 wasn't bought at the time was talk of subframe problems and also herself didn't feel comfortable with the power.

Big jump, as the most powerful car she had was a 1.6 avensis.

And too be honest I didn't trust myself either!!
Now if we had the cash she'd be on a boat to England to pick up an m3!

An inspection II along with a set of tyres and discs & pads could see €3000/€4000 being needed, that's with no actual issues.

I used to drive a very modest BMW but used an independent specialist, the maintenance side of things is apparently not at all just slightly more than the more mundane versions.

Supergurrier

The Old M3/335i chestnut

Bad M3 will break you financially

Bad 335i likewise with turbo issues

Two great cars both both if not in great condition would leave you in a bad place financially.

That being said a properly stage 3 remapped 335i is pretty much the same powerwise as the new M4

fmcg_scribe

I've owned an E36 316, E46 323, E87 135, E38 740, E46 M3 - currently own an E60 535d.

I moved to the UK eight years, so M3 was bought from a BMW UK main dealer as an approved used car.

As part of the BMW approved used car scheme, car was put through an Inspection II service, so two new front tyres (Michelin Pilot Sport PS2) and four new brake pads and brake discs were fitted. The work cost over £2K (requested the invoice for sake of car's service history) and that was cost price because Sales dept was dealing with Service dept in dealership - a customer would have been charged more if dealing directly with the Service dept.

My point is that level of preparation of the car for sale gave me a degree of confidence about the car and it eased the overall running costs for the two years that I owned the car.

Some parts for an M3 will cost more than a standard 3 series brake pads and discs are obvious examples.

In the UK, car tax is less of an issue than in Ireland - although the rates are higher for high emission cars registered after 1 March 2006.

That said, even in the UK, insuring an M3 can be expensive - a lot of insurers will not quote you even if your age, driving history, and home address are OK. Even if you do get a quote you like, there might be an astronomical excess.

For fuel consumption, I found the M3 to be good - on extended motorway runs and using cruise control I could get an average of around 36mpg. However, that was based on super unleaded petrol, which BMW recommends for M cars, but which is not available in the Republic of Ireland.

Although an M3 is a much less complicated car than an M5/M6, never forget the following:
- The car's engine is essentially a race car engine, so it's operating a different tolerances from a standard BMW engine. Engine idle will be rougher and noisier.
- The car's price when new (this is true of all used luxury and performance cars). The original price will give you a clue about the likely running costs, especially parts replacement costs.
- Extending the car's warranty or setting aside a contingency fund for expensive repairs. A BMW approved used car usually comes with a 1 year warranty (or is it now 2 years?) that is nearly as good as the original manufacturer warranty. This warranty can be extended but it gets costly for an M car over 60,000 miles and I'm not sure if BMW Ireland can offer the same warranty extension terms as BMW UK. The warranty gives you piece of mind but if you want to keep renewing it, you need to factor that into the car's annual running costs.

If you buy an M car from a non-BMW dealer, you're going to have to do a lot of due diligence before you even teat drive the car - verifying that the infamous 1,200 mile service was done between 700 and 1700 miles is only the tip of the iceberg.

You need to take time over the due diligence to protect yourself - both for future resale of the car and to know about the car's history if problems surface.

An M car is more likely to have been in accident and put on a track, so there may be more wear and tear on an M3 than a standard 3 series of the same age or mileage.

A bad or poorly maintained M car will punish you financially and emotionally.

Buyer beware, and all that...

If any or all of these issues give you cold feet, you might want to consider a 335i or some other car. (The same issues around running costs would apply to a Merc C AMG and Audi RS4.)

MetzgerMeister

Nice post scribe!

Just to add, although an M car is a lot more expensive to repair/maintain compared to a 335i, the 335i is still pricey to maintain.

fmcg_scribe

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Nice post scribe!

Just to add, although an M car is a lot more expensive to repair/maintain compared to a 335i, the 335i is still pricey to maintain.

Up to a point, yes. The main worry would be the cost of replacing the turbos because my understanding is that they sit at the base of the engine, so if they need to replaced, the whole engine has to come out - but I could be wrong.

I suppose that the 135i I had was close enough to a 335i. To be fair, I bough it new, so for the two years I had it the car was covered by manufacturer warranty. The only fault was a regulator for the driver door electric window. It needed only one service and the engine oil had to be topped up only once. An older 135i/335i may be subject to the more usual mix of electronic, electrical, and mechanical problems found in older BMWs.

Ardennes1944

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

Up to a point, yes. The main worry would be the cost of replacing the turbos because my understanding is that they sit at the base of the engine, so if they need to replaced, the whole engine has to come out - but I could be wrong.

I suppose that the 135i I had was close enough to a 335i. To be fair, I bough it new, so for the two years I had it the car was covered by manufacturer warranty. The only fault was a regulator for the driver door electric window. It needed only one service and the engine oil had to be topped up only once. An older 135i/335i may be subject to the more usual mix of electronic, electrical, and mechanical problems found in older BMWs.

If you want more information on replacing turbos MM is definitely your man :pac:

MetzgerMeister

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

Up to a point, yes. The main worry would be the cost of replacing the turbos because my understanding is that they sit at the base of the engine, so if they need to replaced, the whole engine has to come out - but I could be wrong.

I suppose that the 135i I had was close enough to a 335i. To be fair, I bough it new, so for the two years I had it the car was covered by manufacturer warranty. The only fault was a regulator for the driver door electric window. It needed only one service and the engine oil had to be topped up only once. An older 135i/335i may be subject to the more usual mix of electronic, electrical, and mechanical problems found in older BMWs.

Engine doesn't have to come out at all. I had both turbos replaced on mine. It's awkward work but can be done by a competent mechanic within a normal working day.

Idbatterim

the only "big engined" standard 3 series would be the 330, the 325 the way the Irish motortax system works is far the best all rounder IMO, if not going for an m3. The older the car gets, the less tax I would be prepared to pay, paying E1494 on say a 2001 330 is madness IMO... The thing is worth 2 years of motor tax, max!

Veloce

Fantastic post scribe.

porsche959

Any thoughts on this, Bee Em experts?

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/3-Series/330-CI-E/44313942692923690/advert?channel=CARS

Buying an E46 wouldn't trouble me, I prefer the styling if anything to E90.

MetzgerMeister

Sitec wrote: »

I'm no BMW expert but that back bumper looks sprayed.

Agreed.

PrettyBoy

porsche959 wrote: »

Any thoughts on this, Bee Em experts?

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/3-Series/330-CI-E/44313942692923690/advert?channel=CARS

Lovely colour but it does look like the back bumper has been sprayed. Wouldn't let it put me off but I'd have it inspected by an independent BMW specialist.

fmcg_scribe

Idbatterim wrote: »

the only "big engined" standard 3 series would be the 330, the 325 the way the Irish motortax system works is far the best all rounder IMO, if not going for an m3. The older the car gets, the less tax I would be prepared to pay, paying E1494 on say a 2001 330 is madness IMO... The thing is worth 2 years of motor tax, max!

Indeed. Before the UK introduced CO2 emissions based motor taxation in 2001, the cost of taxing cars in the UK was a joke compared to Ireland - for cars, at least, all that really mattered was whether the car's engines as above or below 1596cc. Even if your car was above 1596cc, the cost of renewing tax was reasonable. To that extent, UK drivers can run older, large engined cars with lower fixed annual costs than drivers in Ireland and that's even before you start taking about taxing and running "classic cars".

VRT is a whole other story but in passing I have to say that successive Irish governments have messed up by sticking with VRT as opposed to the "showroom tax" introduced in the UK whereby the sticker price of a high emissions car is not increased by taxation but the first owner of a new high emissions car pays higher motor tax for the first year.

Marcusm

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

Indeed. Before the UK introduced CO2 emissions based motor taxation in 2001, the cost of taxing cars in the UK was a joke compared to Ireland - for cars, at least, all that really mattered was whether the car's engines as above or below 1596cc. Even if your car was above 1596cc, the cost of renewing tax was reasonable. To that extent, UK drivers can run older, large engined cars with lower fixed annual costs than drivers in Ireland and that's even before you start taking about taxing and running "classic cars".

VRT is a whole other story but in passing I have to say that successive Irish governments have messed up by sticking with VRT as opposed to the "showroom tax" introduced in the UK whereby the sticker price of a high emissions car is not increased by taxation but the first owner of a new high emissions car pays higher motor tax for the first year.

There's no comparison between the amount of VRT attaching to a vehicle (easily over €10,000) and the high initial VED charged on UK vehicles which caps out at less than £1,100.

Caliden

Marcusm wrote: »

There's no comparison between the amount of VRT attaching to a vehicle (easily over €10,000) and the high initial VED charged on UK vehicles which caps out at less than £1,100.

Add to this that the UK tax system is still cheap even after they brought in the Co2 rates.

Eg. 2008 BMW 335i is £285/year

Chiparus

Idbatterim wrote: »

the only "big engined" standard 3 series would be the 330, the 325 the way the Irish motortax system works is far the best all rounder IMO, if not going for an m3. The older the car gets, the less tax I would be prepared to pay, paying E1494 on say a 2001 330 is madness IMO... The thing is worth 2 years of motor tax, max!

motor tax on pre 2008 325, 330i, 335i the same , no?

fmcg_scribe

Marcusm wrote: »

There's no comparison between the amount of VRT attaching to a vehicle (easily over €10,000) and the high initial VED charged on UK vehicles which caps out at less than £1,100.

True but the showroom tax in the UK has helped nudge new car buyers towards hybrids and other low CO2 emission cars, so it has probably achieved its primary objective. In contrast, VRT looks like a straightforward additional tax on the sticker price of a new car.

fmcg_scribe

Caliden wrote: »

Add to this that the UK tax system is still cheap even after they brought in the Co2 rates.

Eg. 2008 BMW 335i is £285/year

Overall, UK CO2 emissions based tax rates are probably cheaper than current CO2 emissions based rates in Ireland. That said, from 23 March 2006, the UK added more bands above 225g/km, so currently £485 and £500 are the highest rates for petrol and diesel cars first registered after that date. For cars first registered in the UK before 23 March 2006, the rate maxes at £285.

Gumbo

Chiparus wrote: »

motor tax on pre 2008 325, 330i, 335i the same , no?

Pre 2008 325's are 2.5, so €1080
Pre 2008 335's are 3.0, so €1500

Caliden

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

Overall, UK CO2 emissions based tax rates are probably cheaper than current CO2 emissions based rates in Ireland. That said, from 23 March 2006, the UK added more bands above 225g/km, so currently £485 and £500 are the highest rates for petrol and diesel cars first registered after that date. For cars first registered in the UK before 23 March 2006, the rate maxes at £285.

When compared to Ireland >226g/km which is €2350/year.

Chiparus

kceire wrote: »

Pre 2008 325's are 2.5, so €1080
Pre 2008 335's are 3.0, so €1500

I was always under the impression that 325i had a 2.9 lit inline v6 ?
must have changed around 2008

jimgoose

Caliden wrote: »

When compared to Ireland >226g/km which is €2350/year.

Ay Caramba! That's near-as-dammit double the next-lower rate! :eek:

Gumbo

Chiparus wrote: »

I was always under the impression that 325i had a 2.9 lit inline v6 ?
must have changed around 2008

I think the newer 25's are 3.0 alright, but dont think they were ever V6's

MetzgerMeister

Also, an inline V6 is impossible

Caliden

jimgoose wrote: »

Ay Caramba! That's near-as-dammit double the next-lower rate! :eek:

Hence why we'll all be driving around in eco-mobiles in 10 years time as the second hand market will have very few 'powerful' cars. (I'd consider anything petrol over 200-250bhp in this category)

Chiparus

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Also, an inline V6 is impossible

my bad , inline 6 cylinder

another option however would be a 330d or a 335d , especially if you do a lot of kms

MetzgerMeister

330d not available in coupe and 335d's are very pricey! For example, there's a 2008 e92 335d on carzone, 42,000 miles going for €28,000.

335i's with similar milage albeit a year older are going for c. 15,000.

Idbatterim

the 330 coupe you linked to is overpriced in my opinion. Nice colour, but a pre face lift, with a DL reg about to go 100,000k miles...

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/3-Series/320-E46-/201423224568889/advert?channel=CARS

Chiparus

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

330d not available in coupe and 335d's are very pricey! For example, there's a 2008 e92 335d on carzone, 42,000 miles going for €28,000.

335i's with similar milage albeit a year older are going for c. 15,000.

Did not know the 330d was not available in coupe,
however if you dont mind a hard roofed convertable;
http://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=1063567&r=s.php%3Fm%3D10%26o%3D86%26g%3D0%26z%3D-9
also a 335d tax is nearly a grand cheaper than the 335i , coupled with better fuel consumption , and a year younger with better resale .

porsche959

Idbatterim wrote: »

the 330 coupe you linked to is overpriced in my opinion. Nice colour, but a pre face lift, with a DL reg about to go 100,000k miles...

Pre face lift is a plus in my book, I actually prefer the old school styling. Points taken, nevertheless.

TouchingVirus

Running costs of an M3 - depends on how much you drive it, how you drive it and how pristine and OEM you want it to be. I average 25MPG in mine with a mix of long stretches on the motorway with cruise control and city driving.

I bought mine at approximately 95k with 3 previous owners in January 2013. The one before me put close on 35k miles in just over a year because he was commuting from Waterford to Dublin and getting mileage paid by the company .

To save costs I do as much labour as I can myself but rough costs are:

• New discs & pads all round - OEM rear discs, ATE (OEM sans stamp) front. Mintex pads. @ ~€800
• Full oil change - Castrol Edge 10W60, an odd and expensive oil ~ €130 with some spare oil left over for top ups
• Rear Tyres - 265/30/19 Matador MP46 @ ~€350 fitted
• SS brake lines & brake fluid flush - ~€150
• Eibach lowering springs all round since a rear spring rusted and snapped. Cost of OEM spring was just shy of the full Eibach price. @ ~€240
• Front suspension refresh (Wishbones, Bushes, Tie Rods, Drop Links, Rollbar Bushes) - mixture of BMW and stamp-free OEM parts @ ~€800
• Replaced Guibo - ~€350 fitted
• Front Tyres - Goodyear Eagle F1s @ €400 fitted

She actually got rear-ended last night so I guess that's next on the list but I won't have to pay for it.

Is it more expensive that some other cars? Probably
Is it as fun? Probably more fun
Do the service costs break my heart? Nope
Do I have an unreasonable attachment to it? Definitely

MetzgerMeister

Chiparus wrote: »

Did not know the 330d was not available in coupe,
however if you dont mind a hard roofed convertable;
http://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=1063567&r=s.php%3Fm%3D10%26o%3D86%26g%3D0%26z%3D-9
also a 335d tax is nearly a grand cheaper than the 335i , coupled with better fuel consumption , and a year younger with better resale .

False savings to be fair if you're going to be spending that much more (13k) on top of it.