Did they see me coming?

Wailin

I recently traded in my 05 Toyota Avensis on a 09 BMW 520D. I checked out a number of cars and dealers and the trade in value of my car varied from €3000 to €3650. With the car I eventually went with the dealer gave me €3250. The Toyota was a strata model with only 60,000 miles on the clock, full service history etc. I just checked the dealers website and saw they now have the car for sale for €4,750! He was initially giving me a trade in value of €3000 but reluctantly went the extra €250 when pushed. Maybe I was too eager on the BMW but was I ripped off or is this the average a person will lose when trading?

GT_TDI_150

Wailin wrote: »

I recently traded in my 05 Toyota Avensis on a 09 BMW 520D. I checked out a number of cars and dealers and the trade in value of my car varied from €3000 to €3650. With the car I eventually went with the dealer gave me €3250. The Toyota was a strata model with only 60,000 miles on the clock, full service history etc. I just checked the dealers website and saw they now have the car for sale for €4,750! He was initially giving me a trade in value of €3000 but reluctantly went the extra €250 when pushed. Maybe I was too eager on the BMW but was I ripped off or is this the average a person will lose when trading?

4750 is what they have listed the car at ... take into account the next buyer wanting money off that and the money they put into it servicing it + standing over any issues with the car for 6-12months after its bought, they wont make a whole packet on the car

Boskowski

That plus the fact they have to live off something...

I mean its what dealers do. They buy a thing for a price and sell it for a higher prices. Coiuld have always sold yourself and bought with cash.

Wailin

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

4750 is what they have listed the car at ... take into account the next buyer wanting money off that and the money they put into it servicing it + standing over any issues with the car for 6-12months after its bought, they wont make a whole packet on the car

The car was only serviced a few weeks prior to the sale plus 4 new tyres so I expected a bit more I suppose. But they did give a 12 month warranty on the BMW, where other dealers were offering only 3-6 months max.

Wailin

Boskowski wrote: »

That plus the fact they have to live off something...

I mean its what dealers do. They buy a thing for a price and sell it for a higher prices. Coiuld have always sold yourself and bought with cash.

Yes I know how it works. I just thought it was a bit high, from €3250 to €4750 with nothing to do to the car. So I guess it's normal then.

Dowl88

Perfectly normal, if u wanted a higher price go private. Dealer probably make a grand off it in the end.

Big Nasty

Were you happy with the deal? It's their own business what they sell it for.

Chain been done on the new bus?

Wailin

Jaysus lads relax, sorry I feckin asked! Bit early in the morning for ye eh?

corktina

The way to look at it is that the Dealer has access to a market you don't and will be able to sell it much better than you can. They will make a profit on it of course, they wouldn't take it off your hands unless they could, but they also have costs and overheads to meet . Yes, they have it advertised at €4750 but they probably will get less for it and you couldn't have got anything like that price selling privately in all probability.

For Forks Sake

Wailin wrote: »

The car was only serviced a few weeks prior to the sale plus 4 new tyres so I expected a bit more I suppose. But they did give a 12 month warranty on the BMW, where other dealers were offering only 3-6 months max.

Why would you put money into a car you knew you were going to be trading in?

Wailin

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Why would you put money into a car you knew you were going to be trading in?

Cos I didn't know I was trading in, service was overdue and tyres so worn they were a risk. Not everyone plans ahead, some people do things on impulse.

Myrddin

Wailin wrote: »

Yes I know how it works. I just thought it was a bit high, from €3250 to €4750 with nothing to do to the car. So I guess it's normal then.

So they've 3250 in the car & have it advertised at 4750? That's €1500 euro to play with, so take into account:

The next buyer looking for something off the price
Standing over a warranty on the car
Paying VAT on the sale of it
Paying the salesman commission for selling it
Overheads
Making an actual profit.

I'd say €1500 isn't a whole lot to play with considering.

Wailin

Big Nasty wrote: »

Were you happy with the deal? It's their own business what they sell it for.

Chain been done on the new bus?

With 50000 miles on the clock? Nope, don't think so. Plenty of those engines around with 130000 plus miles on the clock and no timing chain done. It will be a good 6 yrs driving before I reach that kind of mileage so I'll worry about it then, or maybe the next owner. So take your bitter and begrudging smart remarks elsewhere.

Big Nasty

Wailin wrote: »

With 50000 miles on the clock? Nope, don't think so. Plenty of those engines around with 130000 plus miles on the clock and no timing chain done. It will be a good 6 yrs driving before I reach that kind of mileage so I'll worry about it then, or maybe the next owner. So take your bitter and begrudging smart remarks elsewhere.

It wasn't bitter, I don't really care tbh.

The reason I was asking about the chain is because it's a known issue with that model.

You seem to know best anyhow.

Moneymaker

Wailin wrote: »

With 50000 miles on the clock? Nope, don't think so. Plenty of those engines around with 130000 plus miles on the clock and no timing chain done. It will be a good 6 yrs driving before I reach that kind of mileage so I'll worry about it then, or maybe the next owner. So take your bitter and begrudging smart remarks elsewhere.

Get out the wrong side this morning?

Wailin

Big Nasty wrote: »

It wasn't bitter, I don't really care tbh.

The reason I was asking about the chain is because it's a known issue with that model.

You seem to know best anyhow.

Fair enough, I apologise. I wasn't enquiring about the timing chain yet you threw it in there, seemed like a little poke to me.

I don't think anyone here has actually read the thread title. All I'm getting is dealer can charge what he likes, how dare I question what he sells it for etc. I don't care what he sells it for, my question was "Did they see me coming?", as in, did he rip me off on the value of my car? Lots of people here with plenty of experience in the worth of a car......that's why I asked.

Remind me not to in future :rolleyes:

Wailin

Moneymaker wrote: »

Get out the wrong side this morning?

Yeah probably......so did every body else by the looks of it.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

You didn't get ripped off. Ideally you wouldn't have spent money on tyres and service as this makes no difference to the price he gives. I appreciate that you had to do the work though.

kerry4sam

Wailin wrote: »

I recently traded in my 05 Toyota Avensis on a 09 BMW 520D. I checked out a number of cars and dealers and the trade in value of my car varied from €3000 to €3650. With the car I eventually went with the dealer gave me €3250. The Toyota was a strata model with only 60,000 miles on the clock, full service history etc. I just checked the dealers website and saw they now have the car for sale for €4,750! He was initially giving me a trade in value of €3000 but reluctantly went the extra €250 when pushed. Maybe I was too eager on the BMW but was I ripped off or is this the average a person will lose when trading?

Wailin wrote: »

Yes I know how it works. I just thought it was a bit high, from €3250 to €4750 with nothing to do to the car. So I guess it's normal then.

Wailin wrote: »

Jaysus lads relax, sorry I feckin asked! Bit early in the morning for ye eh?

Wailin wrote: »

Fair enough, I apologise. I wasn't enquiring about the timing chain yet you threw it in there, seemed like a little poke to me.

I don't think anyone here has actually read the thread title. All I'm getting is dealer can charge what he likes, how dare I question what he sells it for etc. I don't care what he sells it for, my question was "Did they see me coming?", as in, did he rip me off on the value of my car? Lots of people here with plenty of experience in the worth of a car......that's why I asked.

Remind me not to in future :rolleyes:

Now, I don't know if my experience with assist you or add to the tension already in this thread, but here goes

In May just gone I was looking for a new car
~ I contacted seller directly offering cash sale
~ Received a very nice discount from price in advert by dealing directly with owner as cash sale

~ Turned out the asking price in advert was if sale went through a dealer
~ Cash sale with discount from the owner of car
~ The difference, substantial (to me), difference in price was going as commission to dealer if they sold it themselves as opposed to the owner.

Ultimately in my case the dealer lost out in that monies (price difference) as both owner & I dealt directly thus eliminating the third party (dealer).

I'd guess that price difference in your situation is the extra commission the dealer will pocket after selling at price they bought it from you at.

Hope that helps in some way,
kerry4sam

Wailin

kerry4sam wrote: »

Now, I don't know if my experience with assist you or add to the tension already in this thread, but here goes

In May just gone I was looking for a new car
~ I contacted seller directly offering cash sale
~ Received a very nice discount from price in advert by dealing directly with owner as cash sale

~ Turned out the asking price in advert was if sale went through a dealer
~ Cash sale with discount from the owner of car
~ The difference, substantial (to me), difference in price was going as commission to dealer if they sold it themselves as opposed to the owner.

Ultimately in my case the dealer lost out in that monies (price difference) as both owner & I dealt directly thus eliminating the third party (dealer).

I'd guess that price difference in your situation is the extra commission the dealer will pocket after selling at price they bought it from you at.

Hope that helps in some way,
kerry4sam

Cheers for that. I suppose the difference in my case is the place i bought from is a family run business, run from home. So there are no overheads as such (rent, upkeep etc). The dealer is the owner then and wouldn't receive commission, still has to stand by the car and provide warranty obviously. But all I was asking was the trade in price on my car very low for it's condition (low mileage, fully serviced, new tyres). I guess when I saw the price it was for sale I thought I should have maybe got a bit more, especially since I was spending a big sum of money on the new car. But, as I've been told repeatedly, that's how they make a living

Can't tell you were you ripped off unless you tell us how much money plus the avensis you gave them for the 520

For example if you gave them 5k you got an unreally good deal, if you gave them 30k you got a poo deal, its the cost to change that dictates the value, not the monetary number they told you they were giving you for the Avensis

darragh o meara

Wailin wrote: »

Fair enough, I apologise. I wasn't enquiring about the timing chain yet you threw it in there, seemed like a little poke to me. :

To be fair, I dint think it was a poke at you,however you might have taken it up. The timing chain issue on the n47 engine is a known issue and if it goes outside your 12month guarantee will set you back about 3k to put right.

A lot of people wouldn't know about this issue and a dealer wouldn't be too quick to tell you either especially after you just buying it.
Personally I think it was more if a tip off than a poke at you.

Btw, enjoy your car. They're a fine machine and pretty well put together apart from a few highly thing's.

As for being ripped off, I 've been in the trade and the money sounds about right,a grand is about the usual expected profit on a second hand motor. By the time he has warranty covered and the taxman happy, not to mention the haggling the next buyer will do, I'd be surprised if even made a grand on it.

Wailin

darragh o meara wrote: »

To be fair, I dint think it was a poke at you,however you might have taken it up. The timing chain issue on the n70 engine is a known issue and if it goes outside your 12month guarantee will set you back about 3k to put right.

A lot of people wouldn't know about this issue and a dealer wouldn't be too quick to tell you either especially after you just buying it.
Personally I think it was more if a tip off than a poke at you.

Btw, enjoy your car. They're a fine machine and pretty well put together apart from a few highly thing's.

As for being ripped off, I 've been in the trade and the money sounds about right,a grand is about the usual expected profit on a second hand motor. By the time he has warranty covered and the taxman happy, not to mention the haggling the next buyer will do, I'd be surprised if even made a grand on it.

No problem, thanks. I was well aware of the timing chain, thanks to lads here on boards. That was why I hunted for a low mileage model (I am aware it happens on low mileage too but very rare). With 50,000 miles on the clock I believe (hope!) that I am pretty safe for awhile. When I get to around the 100,000 mark I will take the steps to have it fixed. That's the plan anyway!

marie12

Wailin wrote: »

I recently traded in my 05 Toyota Avensis on a 09 BMW 520D. I checked out a number of cars and dealers and the trade in value of my car varied from €3000 to €3650. With the car I eventually went with the dealer gave me €3250. The Toyota was a strata model with only 60,000 miles on the clock, full service history etc. I just checked the dealers website and saw they now have the car for sale for €4,750! He was initially giving me a trade in value of €3000 but reluctantly went the extra €250 when pushed. Maybe I was too eager on the BMW but was I ripped off or is this the average a person will lose when trading?

Always leave something for the next man. This sounds about right. He is running a business! You haven't lost anything, enjoy your new car.

MuppetCheck

Augeo wrote: »

Can't tell you were you ripped off unless you tell us how much money plus the avensis you gave them for the 520

For example if you gave them 5k you got an unreally good deal, if you gave them 30k you got a poo deal, its the cost to change that dictates the value, not the monetary number they told you they were giving you for the Avensis

This is it - it's all about the cost to change and not what they are giving you. If assume you would have looked at other similar cars before buying. By buying from this guy I assume it was the best deal you were able to achieve on one therefore the price is the price.

bazz26

That dealer is not going to get €4750 for a nearly 10 year old petrol Avensis anyway irrespective of the low mileage. That asking price allows him a bit of wedge in case he is sitting on the car for a bit, gradually reduce the price as the end of year approaches without any firm interest. He probably has to allow for a cash buyer too and will probably be prepared to drop another €300/€400 on it for a straight sale. I don't think he will make anywhere near the level of profit on that car you are thinking OP.

Wailin

marie12 wrote: »

Always leave something for the next man. This sounds about right. He is running a business! You haven't lost anything, enjoy your new car.

Yeah......I think I get the picture by now. Read previous comments before posting, you ain't adding anything new ok?

whupdedo

Wailin wrote: »

Yeah......I think I get the picture by now. Read previous comments before posting, you ain't adding anything new ok?

You got done badly op, its a disgrace how these sharks work, if I were you, I'd be raging about what the bastards done to me, is their any legal route you can go down or will you just have to grin and bear it ???

Wailin

whupdedo wrote: »

You got done badly op, its a disgrace how these sharks work, if I were you, I'd be raging about what the bastards done to me, is their any legal route you can go down or will you just have to grin and bear it ???

Your hilarious dude, and very original. You'll go places.

Wailin

Wailin wrote: »

Yeah......I think I get the picture by now. Read previous comments before posting, you ain't adding anything new ok?

Your attitude is appalling.
Perhaps you know you got ripped off
What was the cost to change?

whupdedo

Augeo wrote: »

Your attitude is appalling.
Perhaps you know you got ripped off
What was the cost to change?

I think he knows now that he paid waaaaaay too much for his new car, that's what's really pissin him off

Sam Kade

Wailin wrote: »

Jaysus lads relax, sorry I feckin asked! Bit early in the morning for ye eh?

This story should cheer you up and make you see that you weren't really ripped off.

I know a man that traded in his 04 golf a few years ago for the old shape 04 316 bmw and paid €14k with the golf for the privilege. I bet the dealer was smiling to himself that day.

Sam Kade

Myrddin wrote: »

So they've 3250 in the car & have it advertised at 4750? That's €1500 euro to play with, so take into account:

The next buyer looking for something off the price
Standing over a warranty on the car
Paying VAT on the sale of it
Paying the salesman commission for selling it
Overheads
Making an actual profit.

I'd say €1500 isn't a whole lot to play with considering.

In reality he probably got allowed 2k for the car as they have a higher price when trading in

Wailin

Ok, I test drove 3 BMW's and an A6. All were 2009 apart from one BMW that was 2010. The A6 was the dearest at €19,900, but the dealer was offering the highest for my car with €3,650. Two of the BMW's were priced at €18,750 inc the 2010, both had near 90,000 miles. The one I eventually went with was priced €19,500 but had 50,000 miles and a 12 month warranty. All others were offering a 6 month warranty apart from one with a measly 3 month. So it was really the low mileage and 12 month warranty that made me decide on that car, and also it was the nicest colour for me. I was tempted with the 2010, only because it had a panoramic sunroof, but in the end it wasn't enough.

Edit: The trade in price and cash price were the same on all except one, with a grand in the difference.

Wailin

Regarding my "attitude" on this thread, I appreciate advice from people who know a lot more about certain things than me, it's why I posted in the first place, looking for good advice. Like most people, I don't appreciate non helpful advice, aimed at taking the piss and I got a lot of that on this thread, hence the "attitude".

Quite strong money for an 09, I had a 2005 petrol 5 before the diesel days in better times, I think you have paid a premium for a low mileage car while seemingly happy to invest a few thousand in a timing chain job if required in years to come when the car will be worth little. Not my kind of economics.

whupdedo

Told you he paid too much for it, id start saving for the chain asap :eek:

Kaiser D

Wailin wrote: »

With 50000 miles on the clock? Nope, don't think so. Plenty of those engines around with 130000 plus miles on the clock and no timing chain done. It will be a good 6 yrs driving before I reach that kind of mileage so I'll worry about it then, or maybe the next owner. So take your bitter and begrudging smart remarks elsewhere.

Timing chain failure is a well known problem on the engine in your car. And I know of quite a few examples with around the same mileage as yours that have had catastrophic failure.

I don't know what exactly you expected from this thread tbh, you got your answer. Its the dealer's business what he wants for it. The deal is done, you've got your car, be happy with it

Wailin

Augeo wrote: »

Quite strong money for an 09, I had a 2005 petrol 5 before the diesel days in better times, I think you have paid a premium for a low mileage car while seemingly happy to invest a few thousand in a timing chain job if required in years to come when the car will be worth little. Not my kind of economics.

Some private cars for sale (E61, lots of saloon versions alright but estate is what I needed) for a lot less alright at around €16-17,000, but from a dealer there is nothing much cheaper with low mileage. Yes, I agree I paid a bit extra for the mileage and warranty but for me it's a safer bet in the long run.

Estate would attract a premium alright.

stephenamccann

It's only a bit of money sure

Idbatterim

This story should cheer you up and make you see that you weren't really ripped off.

I know a man that traded in his 04 golf a few years ago for the old shape 04 316 bmw and paid €14k with the golf for the privilege. I bet the dealer was smiling to himself that day.

:eek: