need some advice for new startup

fp1

hi lads, I was wondering if I could. pick your brains. I am a quilified electrician since 2003. I am going to setup a property maintanence company to in Clyde electrical work too. I just wanted to get your opinions on what testing equipment yous would see as crucial for this. working if a small startup capital. I've never had to deal with this part before. thanks for your advice .

Luckysasha

I have seen an all in one fluke instrument for domestic work. It includes rcd tester loop impedance , multimeter etc costs about a grand. Apart from that I don't see you would need much else maybe a PAT for appliances etc. you will also have to join recci or essci to be able to issue certs etc

2011

Luckysasha wrote: »

I have seen an all in one fluke instrument for domestic work. It includes rcd tester loop impedance , multimeter etc costs about a grand. Apart from that I don't see you would need much else maybe a PAT for appliances etc. you will also have to join recci or essci to be able to issue certs etc

Good advice.

Basically you can't go wrong with Fluke.
I had one of these all in one devices it was excellent.

fp1

that sounds like the way to go so, I have just got the public liability Insurance in place, have all the eccsa forms ready to go now. I'm nervous of regulation changes since I was house bashing, would love to get a few days as a subby doing domestic to pick up a few bits. is three plate ceiling roses the way to go with twin Brown's dropped to a switch?

mikeyjames9

fp1 wrote: »

is three plate ceiling roses the way to go with twin Brown's dropped to a switch?

i would say the t+e supply looped to switch is more common now

fp1

Would you connect the neutral outside the box? afaik or remember your not supposed to have a neutral in a switch , am I right ?

mikeyjames9

fp1 wrote: »

Would you connect the neutral outside the box? afaik or remember your not supposed to have a neutral in a switch , am I right ?

i didn't hear anything about that
some electricians use wagos

fp1

what's Wagos?

fp1

oh I googled it, never knew the name for them lever connectors., there dead handy.

fp1

Would anyone have a spare set of up to date regs I could buy?

E. Fudd

fp1 wrote: »

Would anyone have a spare set of up to date regs I could buy?

Hard to get a second hand copy unless you know an apprentice that got a set in tech and doesn't want them anymore?

With regards subbying, where are you based?

fp1

I'm in kildare but tend to travel to Dublin everyday for work.

intbn

fp1 wrote: »

I'm in kildare but tend to travel to Dublin everyday for work.

I'm in a similar situation meself, not bitten the bullet yet though, did ecssa give you any trouble with inspections? I heard they're a lot easier to deal with than reci.

Hope it's gone well and you're kept ticking over, it's not an easy decision to make in this country even with things picking up and a few jobs lined up.

Best of luck, hope it goes well for ye, I've heard you can apply to Enterprise Ireland for a grant of up to €2000(depending on eligibility) and it has to be budgeted a certain way, X amount allocated to advertising etc..

Par1

2011 wrote: »

Good advice.

Basically you can't go wrong with Fluke.
I had one of these all in one devices it was excellent.

Phone a calibration/repair agent and they will tell you how good Fluke really are. Fluke are common because there readily available and electrical wholesales have the biggest mark up on them.

The 1652B is rubbish the 1652C is newer but not out long enough to prove itself. An all in one tester is handy but if one function breaks then its garbage time.

Ask a calibration company will they certify a machine that has certain function issues. Also ask them what machine they recommend and they will probably tell you Fluke are good - after all they would have no work repairing if Flukes didn't constantly break

Google multifunction testers and make your own decision based on reviews is my advice...best of luck on your new venture.

Par1

fp1 wrote: »

Would you connect the neutral outside the box? afaik or remember your not supposed to have a neutral in a switch , am I right ?

Neutral is fine inside the box. I think you may be recalling that someone may of told you that neutrals are better outside the box as good practice but the theory behind that was over crowding and 230v potential. The 230v potential is not a valid excuse as the earth will give you the same potential (to live).

I personally like the neutrals not in the switch as then the switch is not that overcrowded.

Par1

fp1 wrote: »

that sounds like the way to go so, I have just got the public liability Insurance in place, have all the eccsa forms ready to go now. I'm nervous of regulation changes since I was house bashing, would love to get a few days as a subby doing domestic to pick up a few bits. is three plate ceiling roses the way to go with twin Brown's dropped to a switch?

You will be grand. You really need to do the certification and verification course first. Its very important to understand the rules before you take on any work. You should have a lot of knowledge since you last worked at electrical so you only really need to brush up on some stuff.

If you do decide to tear into some work just be aware that costs can be expensive to rectify at a later date. Simple things like 20 amp DP switches in kitchens, fuse-board height and RCBO on bathroom lights etc can be simple to do initially but very expensive afterwards especially if you need to re lift floors/chase walls again.

Keep your scope of works simple at the start until you get a feel for the regulations. I know your on a tight budget and don't want to employ an electrician to help you so why not go and work with an up to date electrician for free, maybe work on saturdays for him 9am-1pm....im sure you could do that for your own benefit also the electrician wont mind as he will get an extra pair of hands

2011

Par1 wrote: »

Phone a calibration/repair agent and they will tell you how good Fluke really are. Fluke are common because there readily available and electrical wholesales have the biggest mark up on them.

The 1652B is rubbish the 1652C is newer but not out long enough to prove itself. An all in one tester is handy but if one function breaks then its garbage time.

Ask a calibration company will they certify a machine that has certain function issues. Also ask them what machine they recommend and they will probably tell you Fluke are good - after all they would have no work repairing if Flukes didn't constantly break

Google multifunction testers and make your own decision based on reviews is my advice...best of luck on your new venture.

I have been in this game of a long time and have yet to meet anyone that was disappointed with a Fluke test meter.
I have owned a number of Fluke meters over the years, the most expensive being a multifunction test meter.
They all served me well.

In 2012 I bought a Fluke 375 clamp meter from Insteco for commissioning VSDs.
It is an awesome piece of kit.
Apart from the usual functions and a backlit display it will also measure min / max / average / inrush current and frequency (via the clamp).
From my experience over a number of years of buying equipment from Insteco I have absolute confidence that they will stand over their product should there be any issues.

Par1

2011 wrote: »

I have been in this game of a long time and have yet to meet anyone that was disappointed with a Fluke test meter.
I have owned a number of Fluke meters over the years, the most expensive being a multifunction test meter.
They all served me well.

In 2012 I bought a Fluke 375 clamp meter from Insteco for commissioning VSDs.
It is an awesome piece of kit.
Apart from the usual functions and a backlit display it will also measure min / max / average / inrush current and frequency (via the clamp).
From my experience over a number of years of buying equipment from Insteco I have absolute confidence that they will stand over their product should there be any issues.

Great to see a happy Fluke customer. I only have experience with the multifunction testers and i do not rate them at all. Fluke machines are better as individual units compared to multifunction.

Bring back the old analogue i say !!

2011

Par1 wrote: »

Great to see a happy Fluke customer.

There is no shortage of us

That is not to say that other companies do not make great test equipment such as Megger and Robin.

Bring back the old analogue i say !!

My father has an old analogue multimeter (looks like it is from the 1940s).
It still works perfectly

Par1

2011 wrote: »

There is no shortage of us

That is not to say that other companies do not make great test equipment such as Megger and Robin.



My father has an old analogue multimeter (looks like it is from the 1940s).
It still works perfectly

Well now theres the real review (Life Experience).......Analogues are brilliant and amazingly simple im not surprised its still going, they are probably not the most trendy looking but by god they dont go down without a real fight

2011

Par1 wrote: »

Well now theres the real review (Life Experience).......Analogues are brilliant and amazingly simple im not surprised its still going, they are probably not the most trendy looking but by god they dont go down without a real fight

Regardless of how good an electrical contractor is if they pull one of those analogue devices out it will not fill the customer with the same confidence that a Fluke with a backlit display would (even if the Fluke owner is a complete twat )

Par1

2011 wrote: »

Regardless of how good an electrical contractor is if they pull one of those analogue devices out it will not fill the customer with the same confidence that a Fluke with a backlit display would (even if the Fluke owner is a complete twat )

Would the customer even know the difference?....most customers couldn't give a hoot about testing or results. Once most customers see a light illuminating then they assume an installation is tested....(which incidental is how we used to test houses back in the 'good oul days' )

2011

Par1 wrote: »

Would the customer even know the difference?

I made the remark in jest, hence the smiley

But in this digital age most people know what looks state of the art and what looks prehistoric. But I accept your point is valid.

Par1

Metrel seem to be making moves in the multifunction tester market, you can get a lot of spec for decent money.

http://www.metrel.si/products/electrical-installations-safety/multifunction-testers-eurotest-family.html

mikeyjames9

Par1 wrote: »

Metrel seem to be making moves in the multifunction tester market, you can get a lot of spec for decent money.

http://www.metrel.si/products/electrical-installations-safety/multifunction-testers-eurotest-family.html

I generally steer clear of multifunction equipment, be it washer/dryers
3-1 testers etc

don't like putting aol my eggs in one basket that way

Par1

mikeyjames9 wrote: »

I generally steer clear of multifunction equipment, be it washer/dryers
3-1 testers etc

don't like putting aol my eggs in one basket that way

Your right, i agree.

2011

mikeyjames9 wrote: »

I generally steer clear of multifunction equipment, be it washer/dryers
3-1 testers etc

don't like putting aol my eggs in one basket that way

Each to thier own.

Separate test meters will cost more to buy, more to calibrate and if any one device fails then you can't complete the tests

mikeyjames9

2011 wrote: »

Each to thier own.

Separate test meters will cost more to buy, more to calibrate and if any one device fails then you can't complete the tests

if one of the 3 separate test meters fail ,2 sets of test can be carried out

if the multifunctunction meter fails ,0 sets of test can be carried out

2011

mikeyjames9 wrote: »

if one of the 3 separate test meters fail ,2 sets of test can be carried out

if the multifunctunction meter fails ,0 sets of test can be carried out

......and it both cases the installation remains uncertified.

Par1

mikeyjames9 wrote: »

if one of the 3 separate test meters fail ,2 sets of test can be carried out

if the multifunctunction meter fails ,0 sets of test can be carried out

Technically the 3 in 1 should not be used as it would not be certified. Certificates can only cover the whole tester and not partial functions....i think that's what mikeyjames9 meant

But you are right in saying that you could do the test on the other functions but i wouldn't be a fan of using defective testers.

iwillhtfu

+1 for the all in one multi meter.

I remember when I was serving my time this auld spark used to have me dragging around multiple meters testing circuits. He used to love his megger. The stuff looked like it should've been in an antique shop multiple cows were skinned just to make a case for these things but to be fair it never gave a minutes trouble.

in saying that if you keep a fluke meter in good nick and calibrate it once a year I see no reason it should give any issues they're a great tool.

OP a pat test meter is another good purchase they aren't as strict on that test over here as they are in England but it's only a matter of time before they are.

I'm not 100% on this but afaik you have to buy a copy of the regs as part of signing up to reci/ecssa.

Good Luck tough auld time to be starting out.

2011

Par1 wrote: »

Technically the 3 in 1 should not be used as it would not be certified. Certificates can only cover the whole tester and not partial functions....i think that's what mikeyjames9 meant

They can be certified and are used all the time by the majority of RECs.
I had one complete with cert that I sold to Stoner.

Par1

2011 wrote: »

They can be certified and are used all the time by the majority of RECs.
I had one complete with cert that I sold to Stoner.

My apologies, i should of been clearer there. If a multi function tester fails on one function then that function can not be calibrated therefore the tester can not be certified until the tester is repaired. Even if the tester still has other functions working and measuring within the required limits then the unit can not be certified as one part of the unit is defective. The calibration certificate covers the complete unit. Once a PCB is regarded as faulty then it can not be deemed partially certified.

iwillhtfu

Just another side to your point par1 if you break a meggerfor instance are you not going to replace it?

So in the same thinking if a function on a multimeter fails would you not repair it?

Surely either or and preference/handiness are the only choices between the 2. Multi v multiple

Par1

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Just another side to your point par1 if you break a meggerfor instance are you not going to replace it?

So in the same thinking if a function on a multimeter fails would you not repair it?

Surely either or and preference/handiness are the only choices between the 2. Multi v multiple

Exactly, i agree. If part of the meter breaks then it has to be repaired. Anyone who uses a partially defective tester is looking for trouble in the event of a mis hap. Imagine been asked why you proceeded to trust and use a tester which has already failed on one function and which shares components on a defective PCB?....you would be eaten alive!

2011

I think the OP has enough information to draw his own conclusions now.