Why aren't there more 10 Mile Time Trials in Ireland?

2Cando

I've been on a work placement in Eastbourne, England, for the last 2 months and I simply can't believe the amount of local TTs that take place in the area. Every night of the week there's a TT within a 15km cycle.

I'm starting this thread because I can't understand why this TT culture doesn't happen in Ireland? The TTs in England aren't closed roads, but there are marshals at every junction (they can't stop traffic, but they can try to speed it up and get it out of the way). They seem relatively simple to set up, you just show up, pay £4, get your race number, and await your start time. Official times are also provided at the end.

I've been doing 3 TTs a week for the last 2 months (I'd do more but they're exhausting!), and I find the experienced gain from them is fantastic. Initially, I'd never really done a TT, so my pacing was terrible. But after 2 short months, I've learnt so much about my body in terms of pacing, finding my limits, cadence and most importantly, mental fortitude.

There isn't a need for all the expensive TT gear. I've just been doing them on my road bike with some clip on TT bars, and I've been doing pretty well in them.

I feel if this culture existed in Ireland, the racing community could learn so much. The sense of community at the TTs is also exceptional.

Being Dublin based, I'd love to see a TT series in Phoenix Park over the summer months. It doenst have to be exactly 10 miles, but something would be great. Does anybody feel this way? If a few Dublin clubs had a TT series over the summer in their area, I feel the turnout would be great.

Cookie_Monster

because miles aren't a valid unit in Ireland :pac:

And also the usual insurance & Garda permission nonsense that seems to blight organised road cycling in Ireland.

Junior

It's not that they don't exist it's just that open road racing was banned in UK for a long time so TT's flourished.

2Cando

Junior wrote: »

It's not that they don't exist it's just that open road racing was banned in UK for a long time so TT's flourished.

I know there are some TTs in Ireland, but compared to Britain, there's barely anything at all!

granda

Cuchulainn CC in Dundalk ran a TT league over the early summer months, did'nt do it myself but heard it was well supported

ednwireland

you can do at least one a week between donegal bay, finn valley and four masters up here in the north west. i guess the numbers of riders/clubs round bournemouth/southampton might have something to do with it.

our own club league finished last thurs and that has alternated between hill climb\road race\10mile tt for 13weeks

uk has a much bigger tradition of tting as well because of the road racing bans over the years and the split between the rrttc and road racing federations.

mind i think we get away with a lot in the north west

sheepfield

There are cultural differences between the UK and here that can account for the prevalence of so many such events being held there as opposed to open road racing, the issue of road safety being most obvious, historically speaking. A glance at the CI calendar will show that Ulster is the hotbed of TT on the island as has been the case for decades; it comes as no surprize that so many of Ireland's best testers are the 'nordy' riders (David McCann's National Record is a world class 18m 21sec). I enjoy the occasional trip north and it would seem that if you want to take the TT thing seriously, it is the place to go, especially chasing fast times. But the question remains as to why there isnt that much of it in the rest of the country

Two factors come to mind. Firstly, there is the numbers game. TTs attract a typically small, specialist, niche audience, notwithstanding the variety of age groups, and abilities that appear at sign on, aero gear or not. I wholeheartedly agree that there can be great camraderie and a good 'club' atmosphere, but this does not result in major revenue or exposure for sponsors or clubs. It in some ways is a simple equation: do we run a 10 mile TT for 20 people on a back road or a 160km 'leisure' cycle for 600 around all the towns and villages of the area.? You cud have world champions attending the former but the bums on seats of the latter wins out. Which frankly is a pity.

Secondly, it is acknowledged that the TT is the 'race of truth' and the purest form of racing. Yet much of the cycling in Ireland now has an anti-competitive, non-racing flavour to it, as evidenced by the huge increase of leisure cycling and touring cyclists who by definition engage (supposedly) in non competitive cycling activities. The quality field of the Suir Valley 3-Day is dwarfed by the numbers who will turn up in the lashing rain to the 'Tour of Kilkenny' leisure event. When a club faces a situation of whether we run a TT for 8 members or a leisure event for 80 of the touring members, it may be
simpler for them to heed the cries of the masses who nowadays seem to want to be fed before, during and after a leisurely spin, have roads marshalled, marked and garda patrolled on a leisurely spin, have support/team cars for their leisurely spin and receive a t-shirt or goody bag when they complete their leisurely spin. That is the type of cycling that has become mainstream in Ireland today and TimeTrialling is way down the pecking order of priority.

To be fair, some clubs south of the border do promote club based TTs and do a fine job: Bray, Orwell,Cuchulainn, Naas come to mind. There are others no doubt. But at the moment, TTs remain the preserve of the dedicated few, in the way the ancient wisdom and purity of any endeavour is handled and handed on through the ages. There will always be enough mad lads wanting to do TTs.

niceonetom

Is it not also the case that there are no CI points awarded for TTs (apart from when they are a stage within stage race)?

Disincentivises both competitors and organisers IMO.

victorcarrera

A few clubs in and around Dublin run them regularly midweek evenings during the summer months if you can get permission to ride them when you get back.
You have the right attitude and what you have already learned will pay off in your TT/RR performance terms too because the intense 10ml/20min efforts are generally acknowledged as being one of the best ways to bring you on in other distances and racing too.
You don't need a TT bike or kit either to compare your times with those who have. Just subtract 2 mins from your road bike and kit time (no TT bars or any go faster bits) for 10 miles and 5 mins for 25 miles.

2Cando

Everyone seems to think of club TTs as a competitive event. For a few they are, but for the most part, in England at least, the level of ability is extremely varied. The other week, a 70 year old man showed up just wanting to beat his PB. For many riders at the event, that's there aim for the event, to break their PB.

So why not organise an event where anybody can come, regardless of ability, and just do there best? No CI points or prizes, just bragging rights!

niceonetom

2Cando wrote: »

Everyone seems to think of club TTs as a competitive event. For a few they are, but for the most part, in England at least, the level of ability is extremely varied. The other week, a 70 year old man showed up just wanting to beat his PB. For many riders at the event, that's there aim for the event, to break their PB.

So why not organise an event where anybody can come, regardless of ability, and just do there best? No CI points or prizes, just bragging rights!

Thanks for volunteering!

Where's sign on?

victorcarrera

sheepfield wrote: »

... especially chasing fast times....

... But the question remains as to why there isnt that much of it in the rest of the country

Re: The numbers game.
On any given Sunday event, on average, out of 300 racing cyclists 100 to 140 will attend a road race but only 30 will contest if TT .
IMO in a RR only 10 of the 100 participants are capable of podium and due to the nature of the RR the podium may change from race to race among the same 10. A TT removes many of the deciding factors of a RR and in general will return the same 3 or 3 out of 5 riders.
I think the goody bag and feel good factor has a lot to do with it too because the TT rider comes away from an event with an honest appraisal of their ability, yet there are many RR and touring cyclists who assume the bunch speed in an event is a measure of their ability.
TT kit is not cheap and I think the participation rates could be improved a lot by giving road bike handicaps in club and non championship TT's and introducing ability groups for improvers to work through. I have seen the ability group scenario work very well with riders of similar ability competing in small pods of only 4 or 5 riders.


Re ... especially chasing fast times....

From times of riders that do 10's north and south I estimate that Woodgreen,Omagh Rd, and Toome are 1min faster than Black Bull or Kilkock. With more data I suspect Woodgreen is even faster.

victorcarrera

2Cando wrote: »

So why not organise an event where anybody can come, regardless of ability, and just do there best? No CI points or prizes, just bragging rights!

The bragging rights aside that is an accurate description of every TT I ever took part in.

Caroline_ie

I think I remember a Boardsies 16km TT was organized a couple of times last year or the year before ... or the one before.

Beasty

Caroline_ie wrote: »

or the one before.

That was the one ...

HobbyMan

Try looking up the website of your local triathlon clubs.

My club has a weekly TT over 20K and there are other clubs in the area that also run TTs.

For insurance purposes you must be a member of the hosting tri club, have a valid TI card or be a member of CI.

Feel the burn baby!!

seany15

I think the main factor may be that most roadies don't like TTing, tbqh I'm among that too. Our local club league had 92 senior riders between all grades men & women, with a combined total of 32 showing up for the TT round.

LennoxR

sheepfield wrote: »

Two factors come to mind. Firstly, there is the numbers game. TTs attract a typically small, specialist, niche audience, notwithstanding the variety of age groups, and abilities that appear at sign on, aero gear or not. I wholeheartedly agree that there can be great camraderie and a good 'club' atmosphere, but this does not result in major revenue or exposure for sponsors or clubs. It in some ways is a simple equation: do we run a 10 mile TT for 20 people on a back road or a 160km 'leisure' cycle for 600 around all the towns and villages of the area.? You cud have world champions attending the former but the bums on seats of the latter wins out. Which frankly is a pity.

Secondly, it is acknowledged that the TT is the 'race of truth' and the purest form of racing. Yet much of the cycling in Ireland now has an anti-competitive, non-racing flavour to it, as evidenced by the huge increase of leisure cycling and touring cyclists who by definition engage (supposedly) in non competitive cycling activities. The quality field of the Suir Valley 3-Day is dwarfed by the numbers who will turn up in the lashing rain to the 'Tour of Kilkenny' leisure event. When a club faces a situation of whether we run a TT for 8 members or a leisure event for 80 of the touring members, it may be
simpler for them to heed the cries of the masses who nowadays seem to want to be fed before, during and after a leisurely spin, have roads marshalled, marked and garda patrolled on a leisurely spin, have support/team cars for their leisurely spin and receive a t-shirt or goody bag when they complete their leisurely spin. That is the type of cycling that has become mainstream in Ireland today and TimeTrialling is way down the pecking order of priority.

What's your beef with sportives?

sheepfield

LennoxR wrote: »

What's your beef with sportives?

I love a bit of beef! Specially after a 10 mile TT 😊

LennoxR

sheepfield wrote: »

I love a bit of beef! Specially after a 10 mile TT 😊

Seriously though?

sheepfield

LennoxR wrote: »

Seriously though?

Sorry, didnt hear you there. Had my ear phones on.
But seriously, read the final line of the piece you quoted and I feel it answers the OPs query, which is what I intended.

(A few onions with beef before a TT is great preparation- try it some time )

el tel

Shed loads of TTs in Ulster, you could do them probably three times a week in the season. RRs are virtually non existent in England, so TTing is all that's available. Plus, lots of Nigels in England, and TTing is a bit Nigel-y

fixie fox

victorcarrera wrote: »

?...I estimate that Woodgreen,Omagh Rd, and Toome are 1min faster than Black Bull or Kilkock. With more data I suspect Woodgreen is even faster.

Any fast 40Ks?

victorcarrera

fixie fox wrote: »

Any fast 40Ks?

Woodgreen again I would say. It is very popular with most riders recording their pb's there over 16,40,80 and 160Km.
Dungannon is also returning good times in good conditions, has a long drag on it but the surface is very smooth.